France Riots Over Pension Reforms While Americans Lose Their Homes w/o Protest

[2-0-Sixx]

Retirement age is not really the issue at all. This is about union busting and "putting people in their place." It's about in whose interests will society be run.

October 27, 2010

Thank God for France. While American liberals tremble at the idea of sending an angry email to congress for fear that their name will appear on the State Department's list of terrorists, French workers are on the front lines choking on tear gas and fending off billyclubs in hand-to-hand combat with Sarkozy's Gendarmerie. That's because the French haven't forgotten their class roots. When the government gets too big for its britches, people pour out onto to the streets and Paris becomes a war zone replete with overturned Mercedes Benzes, smashed storefront windows, and stacks of smoldering tires issuing pillars of black smoke. This is what democracy looks like when it hasn't been emasculated by decades of propaganda and consumerism. Here's a blurb from the trenches:

Headline: "French Energy Sector Crippled by Nationwide Strike... French energy facilities are close to total disruption in the wake of nationwide strike against the raise of the retirement age.....France has been hit by numerous protests across the country against a controversial pension reform that would rise the retirement age to 62 from 60....On October 22 morning 80 protesters blockaded Grandpuits oil refinery outside Paris, key supplier for Charles de Gaulle and Orly international airport." (The Financial)​

Shut 'em down.

Full Article

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

So, why dont US citizens do the same shit when we get outraged by the government? Is it because in the big picture, we just dont care as much?

 

[MrDiamondFDC]

Because our police are allowed to use their weapons.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

So, why dont US citizens do the same shit when we get outraged by the government? Is it because in the big picture, we just dont care as much?

how much of the private sector is unionized here compared to france or most of europe? i think its around 5-7% whereas frances its over 70%. its much harder to organize effectively

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

So, why dont US citizens do the same shit when we get outraged by the government? Is it because in the big picture, we just dont care as much?

Maybe Americans are smarter and we realize that social concepts such as retirement are not inherent to our species and are unsustainable with our current (and foreseeable future) ability to harvest, process, and convert our limited natural resources?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

not even you think that

 

[mocheezkc]

I don't live in France, haven't been to France, and i don't know anyone in France, so I don't give a shit about what is happening in France..................

 

[mocheezkc]

So, why dont US citizens do the same shit when we get outraged by the government? Is it because in the big picture, we just dont care as much?

Fuck France................

 

[MAVA]

Americans run on fear.

 

[Dhadnot]

Because Americans only see eye to eye when there's a foreign "enemy" otherwise we don't trust, and don't like each other.

 

[ColdBlooded]

So, why dont US citizens do the same shit when we get outraged by the government? Is it because in the big picture, we just dont care as much?

Dancing with the stars is on. :classic:

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Maybe Americans are smarter and we realize that social concepts such as retirement are not inherent to our species and are unsustainable with our current (and foreseeable future) ability to harvest, process, and convert our limited natural resources?

Maybe, but I highly doubt it. I thinks CB hit it on the head: we dont care as long as we have mindless entertainment on.

 

[ColdBlooded]

It is systemic and Dancing with the Stars/Jersey Shore/whatever is just the end result. You combine a less educated population (especially civically), a concerted effort to disenfranchise large amounts of the population every year from being involved in politics, the comparably small and rapidly dwindling unions, and a virtually uninvolved youth with basically negative civic involvement, etc, et, etc, and this is what you end up with.

Makes it hard to maintain optimism.

 

[HERESY]

The more you silly americans don't do anything, the better it is for my Bilderberg friends. Slaves to the idiot box...you've been sold pills, creams and dreams and we thank you for it.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

The US is nearing a pension/benefits meltdown. City and county governments, large corporations, and other large entities are now seeing looming pension monsters that threaten to place them all severely in the red within 10 to 15 years.

Many public and private programs are ill-conceived and poorly funded with ambiguous COLA guidelines and higher than inflation yearly increases.

Nowhere is it worse right now than the city of San Francisco, which is in danger of complete insolvency in 10 to 15 years. The biggest enemies to this kind of necessary reform are unions and major union backers. Prop B, for example, is possible career suicide for Henry Adachi, with even Gavin "LA Looks" Newsom planning a workaround if it passes. People just want to live in complete fiscal la la land.

Either we apply a serious dagger to the ballooning costs of retirement and pension in cities, counties, and corporations all across the US, or we can bankrupt ourselves.

Thats why im glad no one is rioting over pensions. The only kind of rioting should be a demand that the people who plan and implement pensions set realistic goals so that retirees will not be drawing from an empty pot once their time comes, and that any and all pension reform is not opposed by union groups at every turn with some kind of religious zeal akin to defending the earth from space invaders.

 

[HERESY]

The US is nearing a pension/benefits meltdown. City and county governments, large corporations, and other large entities are now seeing looming pension monsters that threaten to place them all severely in the red within 10 to 15 years.

Many public and private programs are ill-conceived and poorly funded with ambiguous COLA guidelines and higher than inflation yearly increases.

Nowhere is it worse right now than the city of San Francisco, which is in danger of complete insolvency in 10 to 15 years. The biggest enemies to this kind of necessary reform are unions and major union backers. Prop B, for example, is possible career suicide for Henry Adachi, with even Gavin "LA Looks" Newsom planning a workaround if it passes. People just want to live in complete fiscal la la land.

Either we apply a serious dagger to the ballooning costs of retirement and pension in cities, counties, and corporations all across the US, or we can bankrupt ourselves.

Thats why im glad no one is rioting over pensions. The only kind of rioting should be a demand that the people who plan and implement pensions set realistic goals so that retirees will not be drawing from an empty pot once their time comes, and that any and all pension reform is not opposed by union groups at every turn with some kind of religious zeal akin to defending the earth from space invaders.

Cuzzo, I don't think you get it. This isn't so much about Americans rioting for pensions but how Americans aren't doing shit period.

Taken from page 3 of the article:

The French are fighting back against this "oligarchy of racketeers" and the ripoff system they represent, while namby-pamby Americans are neutralized by signing their umpteenth petition or venting their spleen at a Palin rally.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

not even you think that

LOL you are right, I don't really believe Americans think that, at least to that degree.

In reality though, I do think Americans have a different perspective on the particular subject because of the perpetual social security crisis that we all see, hear, and read about.

So because Americans have heard about that for so long, I think the concept of retirement as it was known and expected in the 1950's, may not work for the the 2050's, has become more ingrained in American's sentiment.

Otherwise, on the broader issue, I do agree with CB.

 

[MaddDogg]

The US is nearing a pension/benefits meltdown. City and county governments, large corporations, and other large entities are now seeing looming pension monsters that threaten to place them all severely in the red within 10 to 15 years.

I think the pension/benefits mess in San Francisco is a great example of how government affects the public most at the local/municipal level and not the federal level. For years millions of dollars has been invested in bloated pensions and benefits for the "haves" while the have nots continue to suffer. I had read in the Chronicle that the average monthly contribution for individual/spouse healthcare by SF Fire Fighters is $8.00!!! Average yearly pension is 90% of earnings the year you retire. So if you're starting wage is $75,000 and you work 30 years, you can only imagine your retirement pay. The same is true of Muni, BART and other unionized workforces around the City and Bay Area, and it includes a lot of the non-union civil service goons at City Hall and public agencies, many of whom know someone to get on the gravey train. SF is also home to some of the poorest people and has a huge problem with gentrification. Imagine if some of that local money could be used to help solidfy neighborhoods and get people back on their feet.

That's a local problem not a federal problem, so no blaming Uncle Sam here.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I had read in the Chronicle that the average monthly contribution for individual/spouse healthcare by SF Fire Fighters is $8.00!!! Average yearly pension is 90% of earnings the year you retire.

I read an article a while back, I think it was in the Economist, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

Anyways, I am going to continue looking, but in the meantime the article was about the failure of pension programs and their inability to be sustained.

This is oversimplified but the real life example was something like:

The guy in the article had contributed like $125,000 to his pension at his time of retirement. His expected withdraw from the pension over the remaining course of his like was over 2 Million.

That is clearly unsustainable no matter how you look at it.

A more concrete mathematical example:

A government employee making 70,000 a year with an annual 3% cost of living increase and a defined pension contribution of 7% will put approximately $233,119 into the pension plan over the course of his working career.

Assuming an average ROR of 8% the total value of his contribution to the plan will be approximately $821,574 at retirement.

After 30 years the employee retires and is entitled to 75% of his salary. After 3% annual cost of living increases over 30 years, at retirement that employee was making $164,590.

75% of $164,960 = $123,720

Total pension contribution including compounded interest $821,574

So just on income distributions the total value of his contribution to the plan will be exhausted by the employee in less than 7 years (not including any unforeseen expense ie medical)

The system simply doesn't work.

 

[BENNY_BLANCO1]

Article sounds a little one sided with too much cheerleading in the writing.


Another article:
independent uk

There were also violent incidents on the edges of student demonstrations in other Paris suburbs and in Lyon, Rouen, Roubaix and Nantes. In all cases, both police and student leaders blamed independent, mobile, racially-mixed groups of casseurs – or "vandals" – who were not part of the pension protests themselves. Their motives were unclear, but similar violence by disaffected youths has erupted on the edges of other peaceful student protests in France in recent years.

Police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets and arrested almost 200 young people in more than a dozen incidents across the country. The government – already facing a disruptive pension reform protest by unions and Lycée students – will be desperate to avoid the kind of violent police response which could touch off more serious rioting in the tense multi-racial suburbs of French cities.

Yesterday's incidents, though none very serious in themselves, added to the sense of a nation spiralling into a multi-layered crisis. Over 3,000 – out of 13,000 – French petrol stations ran out of fuel yesterday after panic-buying by motorists intensified. Eleven out of 12 petrol refineries remained on strike. Flying pickets blocked a score of petrol distribution depots. Others were opened up by police

It says later on though, that 3 million are expected to protest later. That's impressive.

I don't see why American citizens would riot over losing their homes considering the circumstance. It doesn't seem like their was much resistance to the deregulation of the banks. American's still voted for both Republicans and Democrats who passed the bill. And American's still bought houses they couldn't pay for. Should they riot because they are too stupid to think for themselves?

Why riot when they could have prevented the problem by actually taking part in the political process? And not just voting R or D.

Sounds like the author encourages a mob mentality without considering the basis of it.