Evolution

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Tim

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#21
HERESY said:
if we come from single cell organisms where is the rat dog???????


or scorpion lizard?????

Well we do have several breeds of dog. As far "rat dog" goes you could say a weiner dog or a chihuaha could fit that. And the "scorpion" lizard, well there are also several types of lizards. You have all the types of species who have developed differents ways to protect themselves from predators. The chameleon for example and others who can blend in with their surroundings to hide from threats. Some species have developed poisons to kill/stun the threat. Evolution occurs, it occurs less within the last several thousand years because humans especially have no need to evolve. Instead of adapting to our environment like we used to we make our environment adapt to us. We build houses, have air conditioners and so on. The animals don't adapt as much because they don't migrate freely like they used to. They are either killed off or confined to a limited area. They are still evolving though. We don't see it because evolution takes hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to make any significant changes. It's still happening but we can't see it.
 

Tim

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#22
Hit The Blunt said:
Everyone.......ADAPTATION does not equal EVOLUTION.
a·dapt Pronunciation Key (-dpt)
v. a·dapt·ed, a·dapt·ing, a·dapts

v. intr.
To become adapted: a species that has adapted well to winter climes.


ev·o·lu·tion (v-lshn, v-)
n.
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.

The process of developing.
Gradual development.
Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
 
May 13, 2002
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www.thechill.com
#24
"and resulting in the development of new species. "

ADAPTATION does not equal EVOLUTION.

to prove that species adapt does not prove that species can overcome their native genetic structure. A giraff getting a long neck is no closer to breaking it's basic genetic structure then a short necked giraff. A white person is no closer to breaking humans genetic structure then a black person. A blonde person no closer then a red haired person. A poodle has the same genetic structure as a dalmation--the characteristics being displayed however are obviously very different.
 
May 5, 2002
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#25
I say their is no END because it doesn't stop... Their is no perfect being therefore changes are always needed. Where's the middle you ask? plenty of fossils building of from an ape like creature to a human form to give a pretty damn good idea. evolution isn't steps, it flows. slight changes over time that arn't noticed by people living in those times because they don't seem drastic. but if you look on a large scale its noticable. how come people are born with un functional apendixes? because that organ is no longer needed due to our quality of life. I can garentee within a couple hundred years you will have people being born without them, because they are useless. what exactly are you tryna say when you bring up "rat dog"? how does that relate at all to evolution?

BTW Heresy, what do you believe the origin of man is? do you think everything was just all magically created all at once. help me out, tell me what really happened...
 
May 13, 2002
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#26
Why do I feel I have talked about this appendix issue before? The appendix has a function. It is not a useless organ. This has been KNOWN since the 1980's yet it still circulates in debates. Can I ask WHY? Lets get up to date please. Here is a good site for this. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/1866/appendix.htm

I'll put some parts on here for you.

"Due to the high probability of its rupturing, the appendix has often been seen more as a nuisance rather than an important part of the human anatomy. Due to this misconception, a significant portion of the worlds population had undergone, if not, are already considering, the process of appendectomy. However, this surgery is now being treated as a last resort especially for those who suffer from the pain of appendicitis. This is due to the fact that modern research now proves that this small organ found at the tip of the intestines (on the cecum to be more specific) actually performs several important functions in the human body."

"In 1987, the book “Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing and Allied Health” came up with its definition of the appendix and it reads as follows, “appendix- an apparently useless structure, it can be the source of a serious illness." Such a closed statement, especially from a well-referenced book, can be quite deceiving particularly since it may lead to a variety of misconceptions. Modern medicine (and the newer volumes of this book), however, has now rethought its position regarding the importance of this small organ principally in its contributions to the digestive and lymphatic systems. "

"In addition to these reasons, another contribution of the appendix to the body is its possible production of antibodies that help combat a variety of serious diseases. According to the book “Vestigial Organs are Fully Functional,” a study conducted by Dr. Howard R. Bierman shows the co-relation between those who suffer from a number of debilitating diseases and their lack of the appendix. His findings show that on hundreds of his patients who suffer from Leukemia, Hodgkin’s disease, cancer of the colon, and cancer of the ovaries, 84 percent of them had their appendices removed in their childhood(Bergman and Howe, 45). Through this, it can be seen that there is a positive co-relation between the early removal of the appendix and the onset of these diseases"
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
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#27
SNUBNOZE,
EVERYTHANg WASN'T CREATED IN ONE DAY. OT TOOK THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO MAKE. A THOUSAND YEARS TO (gOD) MIgHT BE ONE SECOND. THUS IF ONE DAY IT TOOK TO MAKE THIS OR THAT, IT WAS THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
 

PLOT

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#28
Snubnoze said:
"where are the animals that are STILL going through the phase of evolvement????????"

You obviously don't know too much about evolution. their is no beggining, middle, and end. Evolution is an on going process that doesn't stop. HUMANS are STILL going through the phase of evolvement. EVERYTHING EVOLVES. From plant life to animal life. Everything has to evolve to its conditions in order for its species to survive. The offspring who by chance isn't benifited with the positive trait will die off, leaving the ones with the positive to go out and procreate.

Like my man said bout the giraffes, the ones who weren't born with long necks died, thus not passing on their short neck trait, while the ones with long necks were able to eat the food off the high trees to survive, and passed their traits on to their offspring. its a slow process, its not something you see happen within a couple of years. how do you think we got all these various types of dogs? they all evolved to their life style. thats why people breed dogs to do certain things. look at the human race in general. how do you think we got black people who originated from one area, white people in another, asian in another and so on. they all live in different climates and over time they all evolved slightly in a different way. why do we have all these similar species in all around the world who have slightly different traits. snakes, lizards, birds etc...
Thats on point. Every lifeform as long as it exists is forever adapting to it's conditions and surroundings. There is a valid reason and purpose for virtually everything a living form posesses. It is those lifeforms that are too slow to evolve to it's conditions that end up dying out. It is estimated that only 10% of all of the earths lifeforms still exist today. On that note, many more are created every day. Scientist's discover approx 7,000 to 10,000 new insect species every year alone.

Scientists have followed a trait in our DNA that is consistent with all other lifeforms back to the water. They found that the origin of this code was found in something called a "sponge". It takes the form of a huge coffee mug without the handle and it's exterior is something like a starfish. The living "sponge" soaks in thousands of gallons of ocean water a hour and retains any nutrients the water may have. This was the first living thing on the planet.

It then evolved from that to the first "moving" living thing, basically a miniture version onf the Sponge. If you live in the Bay you have probably seen some. They cling to rocks and have little wiggly tentacle like arms that snag nutrients and bring them in it's mouth. I cant remember what they're called.

From this then evolved the first fully mobile lifeform, the jellyfish!. And on and on and on.........
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#30
Hit The Blunt said:
"At one time there were short neck giraffes. And a genetic mutation caused some Giraffes to have longer necks just like a genetic mutation may make a man 9 feet tall. Well animals started killing off the shorter neck giraffes and the longer neck giraffes were the fittest for the current environments."

Ahhh. this is why this place drives me crazy. Everytime this subject comes up the only thing evolutionists bring up to support evolution doesn't even have to do with the theory of evolution (which is macro evolution). They only talk about micro evolution. Because micro-evolution is the only thing which has backing. Yes, certain physical characteristics of species will become dominate during certain times due do environmental conditions--BUT the changes made will not create a new species which is required of for evolution. So are these long necked giraffes any closer to becoming a new species? Is Shawn Bradley more evolved then you because he is taller? Is he closer to becoming a new species? The fact of the matter is there is nothing to back the thought that macro-evolution can take place. All evidence for evolution uses cases of micro-evolution. The fact of the matter is if a salmon was running out of water and the only way for it to survive is for it to get feet or breath on land. It would DIE. Some salmon wouldn't get some Miracle gene from it's parent and come out with feet. If some land dwelling animal was running out of land because of floods some newborn wouldn't come out with wings to adapt and fly away. The only adaptation that takes place is the dominance of characteristics native to the species which before had not been dominate due to that characteristic not being beneficial to it's survival.
I see this and I'll respond later, I've got a lot to say....
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#32
@plot basically what your saying is we come from one celled organisms. thats fine. WHERE IS THE ANIMAL THATS IN THE MIDDDLE? WHERE IS THE NEW SPECIES???? WHERE IS THE DONKEY ELEPHANT? IF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS *****STILL****** COMING OUT OF THE WATER EVOLVING INTO NEW CREATURES. WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS IN THE *MIDDLE* OF THIS PROCESS. SO WHERE ARE THESE ANIMALS?????? HOW COME THE SPECIES CHANGES AS A WHOLE? HOW COME ITS NOT ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS???? WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS THAT ARE HALF SPONGE HALF TIGER BY NOW.


@SNUBNOZE HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU DONT HAVE AN END? IF THE GIRAFFES DIED BECAUSE THEY COULDNT EAT ISNT THAT THE END OF THE SHORT NECKS????

what exactly are you tryna say when you bring up "rat dog"? how does that relate at all to evolution?
read plots post. of youa re familiar with darwin you are familiar with his theory on one cell organisms. if we came from MONKIES where did the monkies come from???? if monkies are our middle phase and we are still evolving you should have some monkies that are almost finished with the changing process.
BTW Heresy, what do you believe the origin of man is? do you think everything was just all magically created all at once. help me out, tell me what really happened...
no my snub nosed friend i dont believe that everything just "magically" happened. that would be more on the lines of evolution. 6 DAY CREATION.



@tim

Well we do have several breeds of dog. As far "rat dog" goes you could say a weiner dog or a chihuaha could fit that.
those dogs are a result of BREEDING techniques. not adapting to climates and conditions. just like a PIT BULL is a cross between several breeds. after they came with the pit they kept breeding it. its a cross between bulldog/english terrier and some other dogs(i forgot which ones).

if you breed a male lion and female tiger you get a certain animal. if you breed a lioness and male tiger you get a DIFFERENT version. ligers and tigons. thats what they are called. are these species the product of evolving? nope. breeding that has been planned by humans? yes.


tim are you saying that because a gila monster and beaded lizard have a dangerous bite that they are relatives of scorpions? that lizards evolved from scorpions and scorpions evolved from one celled organisms?



tim. you say we are still in the process of evolving.

We don't see it because evolution takes hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to make any significant changes. It's still happening but we can't see it.
which is my point. if this is happening we **would** be able to see it. so if man started to evolve from whatever it was 1 million years ago where are the animals that started to evolve 2 million years ago? or how about 200,000 years ago?????


if man is a monkey why dont we see a monkey that is ***ALMOST*** human but not quite human yet because he didnt start evolving until 200,000 years later????





heresy
 

PLOT

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#33
@plot basically what your saying is we come from one celled organisms. thats fine. WHERE IS THE ANIMAL THATS IN THE MIDDDLE? WHERE IS THE NEW SPECIES???? WHERE IS THE DONKEY ELEPHANT? IF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS *****STILL****** COMING OUT OF THE WATER EVOLVING INTO NEW CREATURES. WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS IN THE *MIDDLE* OF THIS PROCESS. SO WHERE ARE THESE ANIMALS?????? HOW COME THE SPECIES CHANGES AS A WHOLE? HOW COME ITS NOT ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS???? WE SHOULD HAVE ANIMALS THAT ARE HALF SPONGE HALF TIGER BY NOW.

As I said before, there are constantly new species of lifeforms being born. It is a very simple concept if you can look at it from a certain perspective........the earth is 4.5 BILLION years old. This stuff does not happen overnight. Thousand's upon thousands upon 10's of thousands of years occured between the sponge and the jellyfish. What does the sponge have in common with the jellyfish at a glance.......NOTHING. Even though the two are virtually grandpa and grandson they dont look alike, act alike, or do much of anything alike aside from living off nutrients in the water.
Another example is let's say a virus. We find an antibiotic that kills this virus but over time through evolution it mutates to something that is resistant to the vaccine. A new anitbiotic is then developed and over time this strand again mutated and becomes a new virus. All of these virus's are related at the core, but all now have a totally unique makeup and are nothing alike.
 
May 5, 2002
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#34
Heresy, Like I said before, you obviously do not understand the theory of evolution.

"WHERE IS THE DONKEY ELEPHANT?"

What does two seperate species combining into one have to do with evolution? evolution starts as one and branches out then those brances branches out like a tree. their have been cases when some animals that have branched out have moved closer to another tree and shared some qualities other species have. such as snakes who live in water and various other reptiles and amphibians. bottom line is its a big tree, and you cant just jump from a donkey branch to an elephant branch and combine them. it doesn't work that way.

"no my snub nosed friend i dont believe that everything just "magically" happened. that would be more on the lines of evolution. 6 DAY CREATION. "

ROFL, yea and 6 day creation is more believible.

"that lizards evolved from scorpions"

No, lizards evolved from amphibians who evolved from fish.

"if man is a monkey why dont we see a monkey that is ***ALMOST*** human but not quite human yet because he didnt start evolving until 200,000 years later????"

Because they already evolved into us. Shit, you can say a Gorilla is almost a human, we don't know. You can't just say at a present time what something will end up being.

Have we ever agreed on anything Heresy? ROFL...
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#35
Heresy, Like I said before, you obviously do not understand the theory of evolution.
obviously you DONT understand. look at what plot is saying and look at what YOU are saying. you and plot dont even have teh same views on evolution. what he is saying is DIFFERENT from what you are saying. you also contradict yourself (i will show that later).




What does two seperate species combining into one have to do with evolution? evolution starts as one and branches out then those brances branches out like a tree. their have been cases when some animals that have branched out have moved closer to another tree and shared some qualities other species have. such as snakes who live in water and various other reptiles and amphibians. bottom line is its a big tree, and you cant just jump from a donkey branch to an elephant branch and combine them. it doesn't work that way.
i understand that its two seperate species. is a sponge and jellyfish two seperate species? YES. once again look at what plot is saying and what you are saying. no one is "combining" anything. if you were familiar with darwanism (obviously you are not) you would have views that are similar and coincide with plots. thats not the case.


now for the contradiction:




you cant just jump from a donkey branch to an elephant branch and combine them. it doesn't work that way.
now look at this:

No, lizards evolved from amphibians who evolved from fish.
you are going from FISH to FROG to LIZARD. thats not combining species and jumping from branch?????????

where is the fish thats still in the process of becomeing a frog? if you have one stage of the process complete (the fish has finally became a frog) why dont you have a stage thats ALMOST complete? so if the lizard did indeed come from a frog why dont you have lizard frogs? WHERE is the organism that is still changing?????? why dont you see frogs changing into lizards now? so all lizards come from frogs?????? LMAO!!!!!!! how can all those specied of lizards (moloch,monitor,iguana,gila and jesus lizard) come from (bull,arrow,tree) frogs???? which species of lizard came from which frog????? and from what species of fish did each frog come from?

if what you are saying is true we would have billions of fish coming out the water turning into frogs. according to you it DOESNT stop. so if it doesnt where is the animal that hasnt finished its process????? if the frog is the middle of the lizard and fish (didnt you say there was no middle?) why dont you have half lizard/frogs? according to you they come from the same thing.

so do all the frogs become lizards at one time or is it based on specific species? if one species is evolving before the other the later species should be at a certain stage in the process. where is this stage?

a butterfly starts as an egg,turns to a caterpiller,spins a cacoon,emerges as a butterfly ,mates and dies.

thats with ALL species of butterflies.


now compare that to

one cell organisms,turns to a fish,becomes a frog,becomes a lizard.


thats jumping from species to species and if thats correct(i cant stop stressing this) you would have something that is at the "ALMOST" frog or "ALMOST" lizard stage.


Because they already evolved into us. Shit, you can say a Gorilla is almost a human, we don't know. You can't just say at a present time what something will end up being.
so which species of monkey did man come from? can you answer this? why is it that ALL monkies didn't evolve? why is it that the spider monkey didnt evolved into BLACK people? why is it that the baboon didnt evolve into white people? why didnt the chimp become the asian man??????


if what you say is true all monkey species would be in some stage of evolvement and some would be RIGHT BEHIND HUMANS. some would be at the "neantherthal"(check spelling) stage. why dont we see that?????



heresy
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#36
As I said before, there are constantly new species of lifeforms being born. It is a very simple concept if you can look at it from a certain perspective........the earth is 4.5 BILLION years old. This stuff does not happen overnight. Thousand's upon thousands upon 10's of thousands of years occured between the sponge and the jellyfish. What does the sponge have in common with the jellyfish at a glance.......NOTHING. Even though the two are virtually grandpa and grandson they dont look alike, act alike, or do much of anything alike aside from living off nutrients in the water.

if thats the case you should have NEW animals. where is the sponge jelly??????? where is the animal that is stilla sponge but not quite a jelly? he has 500,000 more years to go. where is this species? where is the species that is making transition from fish to frog? why isnt the tuna becoming a big blue frog? shouldnt you see a species in the middle????


if it didnt happen over night you would STILL have something that is JUST ABOUT/ALMOST finished evolving. where is it?????????????????


heresy
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#37
Nothing bugs me more than when I hear people say they dont believe in God. So I ask them what they believe in and they say evolution. Well if we all evolved from some kinda little organisms then where did those little organisms come from? Did they evolve from something else? If so then where did that something else come from. Also, sure I believe in God, but where did God come from? Was he once on earth but evolved? There are too many questions that can be asked but the answers will always remain unknown. It all comes down to what you want to believe in while you're living on this earth. Whether it be your own beliefs or following the beliefs of others.

That's my two pennys for ya...
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
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#38
HERESY,
HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE TO DRILL THE SAME MESSAgE BEFORE THEY gET IT? MUTHA-FUKAS RATHER TRY THEY HARDEST TO FILL IN LOOPHOLES THEN TO ACCEPT A CREATOR.

PLOT,
EXPLAIN THIS:
WHY DO WE HAVE SENSES? WHY WAS THE BANANA CAKE I ATE WAS SO DELICIOUS EVEN THOUgH I AIN'T gOT TO TASTE SHIT TO NOURISH MY BODY? WHY DOES MUSIC SOUND SO gOOD TO THE EARS AND AFFECTS THE MENTAL AND SOUL, YET WE DON'T NEED IT TO COMMUNICATE? WHY WHEN I HAVE SEX, IT FEELS SO gOOD WHEN HAVIN' THOSE SENSES AIN'T NECESSARY TO PRO-CREATE?
 
E

Epitaph

Guest
#39
Your dialoge has revealed your ignorance on the subject. You should really attempt to understand before you relate information.
 
May 12, 2002
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GoProGraphics.com
#40
We are thge ones in the middle!!!!!!

Man, look, a whale evolved from a marine species long ago, it their path as we have our own. We came from an aquatic species too. Back in the day, water dried up all around the planet. The animals wer all trapped to different parts of the planet. When the animals became able to get on land, they all evolved different depending on where they had been isolated to. Thats why you can have many species apear similar but are not related at all.