does it really matter what program you record in...

[HERESY]

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/599/0/0/0


make sure you guys hit the second page.

We can't really listen to digital audio. We listen to analog sound that comes from a digital representation. Our limit is still a 24 bit digital wordlength which is then converted to analog

If more people could grasp that the world would be a better place


On a side note I'd rather record my tracks at the pre amps optimal level than record as hot as possible or just under zero. Headroom and bits aren't the issue. The summing buss is. Another topic another day.

 

[GHP]

I heard Pro Tools can be pretty limited unless you get a full fledged HD System that will run you an ass load of cash, any truth to that?

I'm learning Logic express in school right now. So far I'm digging it its pretty easy to use, if I ever get a Mac of my own I'd like to have that shit.

 

[HERESY]

I heard Pro Tools can be pretty limited unless you get a full fledged HD System that will run you an ass load of cash, any truth to that?

I'm learning Logic express in school right now. So far I'm digging it its pretty easy to use, if I ever get a Mac of my own I'd like to have that shit.

what do you mean by limited? pro tools le is limited and to be honest hd systems are not the best imho. Most people who own a small pro tools setup but have enough to run an hd setup dont do so because the features dont warrant the price tag. Lets just say you had a choice between an hd system worth 20k or a digi 002r with 18k worth of outboard gear. Which would you pick?

 

[GHP]

arent the sample rates not as good on an LE system, if so is it enough for most people to be able to notice? What are the advantages on an HD system since they do cost like 15-20 gs and up? You are right though I'd rather roll with an 002 or a compitition brand in the same price range with the outboard gear. A control 24 would sure look sexy in a project studio though! I'm in school for audio engineering so I've been researching different ways to a solid project studio, I just got started though so I'm far from being an expert yet. I was thinking Pro Tools since most studios use it and I'm getting the certification. A professional looking and sounding setup can be really pricey though like above mentioned.

 

[HERESY]

arent the sample rates not as good on an LE system, if so is it enough for most people to be able to notice?

the digi 002r goes to 96khz while the hd goes to 192khz. Is it enough for most people to notice? Most people don't notice digital distortion so if they dont notice the bad how can they notice the good? The question is do your projects NEED high sample rates? If so what are the pros and cons? A quick example is a digi 002r recording at 96khz. You now have less inputs and your voice count now goes down to 16 or 24 tracks (I cant remember right now) and hard drive space is eaten at an alarming rate.

What are the advantages on an HD system since they do cost like 15-20 gs and up?

Higher track count, better plugins, better mix buss, better converters, no stress on your computer (because of cards/dsp), more inputs, 5.1, 7.1 and a.e.s

Thats the advantage of an hd over a digi 002r.

You are right though I'd rather roll with an 002 or a compitition brand in the same price range with the outboard gear

Honestly if it were a sound quality issue that would be the best bet.

I'm in school for audio engineering so I've been researching different ways to a solid project studio, I just got started though so I'm far from being an expert yet.

Learn what you can but I think more concern should be placed on teh type of room you have (or want) and the power going into the room.

I was thinking Pro Tools since most studios use it and I'm getting the certification. A professional looking and sounding setup can be really pricey though like above mentioned.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the sound is what matters. EYE candy can get the customers hooked but its the sound and service that will bring them back.

 

[GHP]

thanks, you always have good advice

 

[22sleepy415]

The thing that is good about a pro tools setup is that you will have an easier time porting projects to other studios.

I use Cubase SX religiously and have to admit that it's a pain for me to send projects to other places. When I had to send some files to a studio working with Nuendo it was a Godsend for me. The omf file format helps but it doesn't help that this was an idea coming from digidesign and yet they're the ones that seem reluctant on implementing the feature, free that is.

But I recommend that if you must go for a pro tools setup, at least go for an 002 system if you can afford it. If not, then an 001 if you don't mind working with a discontinued product. An mbox is a waste of space in my opinion. No offense to mbox users.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/599/0/0/0
On a side note I'd rather record my tracks at the pre amps optimal level than record as hot as possible or just under zero. Headroom and bits aren't the issue. The summing buss is. Another topic another day.

Summing goes way over my head to a point. I don't even notice the point when I get to the point where I don't understand anymore. :ermm: On the recording levels tip, I record as hot as possible to avoid the increase in noise floor when pulling up the levels digitally on the recorded material if called for. It probably isn't as big of a deal with a good high-end signal chain but even with decent to good systems noise is still a concern.

 

[InsaneMixaken]

I use the M Box just to tranferfiles from Nuendo to Pro Tools sessions it work for me...

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

The reason I brought up the 32bit thing is because a few years back I was on the Cubase message board and read a thread dealing with a question someone posted about their songs not sounding as clean after export/bounce as they did while they were playin' back in Cubase. One of the Cubase guru's came on there and explained that most of the processing is goin' on at 32bit and when you export at 16bit the processing dithers itself to 16bit and thus doesn't sound as good. He suggested exporting at 32bit to maintain the sound and THEN dithering to 24 or 16bit. I tried it and I noticed a difference. So now I export everything at 32bit and either dither to 24 if I'm taking it to my mastering guy or keep it at 32bit and dither to 16bit when I master it.

 

[HERESY]

The following should be REQUIRED reading:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/1690/0/0/0

http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/Mixing_in_the_Box.pdf


@sleepy you said:

On the recording levels tip, I record as hot as possible to avoid the increase in noise floor when pulling up the levels digitally on the recorded material if called for. It probably isn't as big of a deal with a good high-end signal chain but even with decent to good systems noise is still a concern.

How is your system calibrated? If you're recording 24 bit you have around 112-144 db of dynamic range (digi design hardware). With that being said you shouldn't have a problem with s/n ratios. Hows your headroom for plugins and boosting after you track as hot as possible?

 

[22sleepy415]

The reason I brought up the 32bit thing is because a few years back I was on the Cubase message board and read a thread dealing with a question someone posted about their songs not sounding as clean after export/bounce as they did while they were playin' back in Cubase. One of the Cubase guru's came on there and explained that most of the processing is goin' on at 32bit and when you export at 16bit the processing dithers itself to 16bit and thus doesn't sound as good. He suggested exporting at 32bit to maintain the sound and THEN dithering to 24 or 16bit. I tried it and I noticed a difference. So now I export everything at 32bit and either dither to 24 if I'm taking it to my mastering guy or keep it at 32bit and dither to 16bit when I master it.

You should let your mastering engineer take care of your dithering. If you are taking care of your own mastering then dithering is the last thing that you should do and should only be done once. When dithering, you are adding random digital noise to your audio.

Cubase has been pushing for 32 bit FP recording for a while. Whether be having it as a recording option or via their tape saturator plugin that mentioned 32 bits all over the place on the literature for it. I really don't doubt Steinberg for pushing for 32 bit so much but I never tried it after a few years still. Maybe I'll give it a shot and see if it does indeed make a difference.

The following should be REQUIRED reading:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/1690/0/0/0

http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/Mixing_in_the_Box.pdf


@sleepy you said:

How is your system calibrated? If you're recording 24 bit you have around 112-144 db of dynamic range (digi design hardware). With that being said you shouldn't have a problem with s/n ratios. Hows your headroom for plugins and boosting after you track as hot as possible?

I don't really put a lot of detailed attention to optimize the recording chain as you seem to. I make sure my gain is adequate but not too high/low and use a direct out to the daw. I usually play with the gain a bit during sessions and the fader goes untouched. I'm mainly paying attention to the compressor. The Alesis 3630 sounds bad when too much compression is used but other than that it's good at what it's supposed to do. I keep an eye on the signals but don't spend a lot of time on the recording signals. If it sounds good then I don't go more into it further than that.

I usually take the volume down a notch withing Cubase to keep software compressors from squashing the signal too much also. Rarely do I have a fader that is not turned down a good amount in the digital domain. I would say it's better to advice most people to record a hot signal without having it clip. For someone starting up, it'll usually be better that they have to turn down the signal in the digital domain than that have pull it up and have the noise from their recording chain be more noticeable. I pay mind to how the signals are interacting with each other and with the final output but not for the mathematics of things but the sound. I don't even pay attention to spec'ed headroom bur rather the obvious when digital sound distorts and if I'm pushing the headroom on my analog console.

Without reading through the whole thread on the last link that you posted, I tend to agree more than anything with this post:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/1690/17624/0#msg_17665

 

[InsaneMixaken]

Try using the Export Macro it will export all your tracks at once to individual files so you can import to other programs with ease