Dio: Thoughts on creationism and science

[n9newunsixx5150]

Quote:
"^JUST THE CONCEPT OF A BILLION gODS AND TRI-gODS AND REINCARNATION. I AgREE WITH ALL THE EARTH ELEMENTS AND ENERgY."




There is one Supreme God. And there are many demigods. Think of the demigods similar to angels in the bible. They work for God.

As far as reincarnation goes...
Consider, given that the flesh body is *only* a vessel and without the spirit (the real living entity), the body is a corpse, why would it follow that we only embody one temporal vessel? It is impossible to know when exactly the living entity fell into this material entanglement. And the idea that the current body one indwells is the only one that we'll ever have is a by-product of the false ego. Now, imagine that perhaps the body you indwell is, in fact, the first and only one you have ever made animate. There are 2 worlds and they are the material world and the spiritual world. If you die and go to "hell", you are just going to a a lower material existence. There is no spiritual place of suffering. And because of the nature of the material world, even in hell you are subject to old age, disease and death. So, if EDJ went to a hellish existence after this life, it would be his reincarnation into that world. Also, imagine that EDJ, after dying in this hellish existence, reincarnates maybe into a higher quality of life, but still within the material world of death. You could even think of this as hell. And, if you still decide in this life to live irreligiously and immorally, there are many lower levels of existence where the suffering is even greater; Perhaps fire and brimstone...

In the spiritual world there is no reincarnation. Once one attains to that eternally manifest reality they do not have to undergo the conditions of birth, disease, old age and death. So don't think that I believe reincarnation to be absolute. Also, I am not Hindu...

:classic:

 

[EDJ]

^YOU SURE ENDORSE THEY BELIEFS AND ALMOST HAD ME CONVINCED.

BUT I BELIEVE IN ONE TRUTH. I BELIEVE AFTER YOU DIE, YOU'RE DEAD. I BELIEVE WE WERE ALL BORN TO DIE.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^^^^^^^


But YOU don't really die...

Because YOU are not the body. And neither are YOU a product of the body. But with the false ego you believe that you are and you identify with all of its symptoms. You are not defined by these symptoms. They could never really be YOU. This is one of the few things I stress to many people on here.

I also believe in one truth. And that truth is eternal. It is not a vessel of growth and decay. You identify with a corpse. I am trying to help you to see and make distinct the LIFE opposed to the dull matter IT indwells.

When you say, "I BELIEVE AFTER YOU DIE, YOU'RE DEAD."
this sounds like the words of an atheist.

Maybe I am mistaken, but do you not follow in the concept of "afterlife"? Or do you actually believe that your existence is completely abolished upon expiration of the body?

 

[EDJ]

^I BELIEVE YOUR BODY DECAYS AND YOUR SPIRIT gOES BAK IN THE MEMORY OF IT'S CREATOR. BUT NO, I DON'T BELIEVE IN NO AFTER-LIFE. NOBODY CAN PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE. NO LIVIN' MAN HAS EXPERIENCED IT. ALL MUTHA-FUKAS HAVE IS FAITH BASED ON THEIR TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES(UNLESS YOU HOLD ANOTHA BOOK TO HAVE YOUR BASIC BELIEFS ON THE MATTER).

BUT LET ME ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ONE BY ONE.

YOU STRESSED, "But YOU don't really die...

Because YOU are not the body."

SO WHERE IS THE SPIRIT? BUT HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF YOU REALLY DIE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "And neither are YOU a product of the body. But with the false ego you believe that you are and you identify with all of its symptoms."

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You are not defined by these symptoms. They could never really be YOU. This is one of the few things I stress to many people on here."

THEN WHAT IS YOU?

THEN YOU STRESSED, " also believe in one truth. And that truth is eternal. It is not a vessel of growth and decay."

SO WHEN YOU SAY "ETERNAL" WHAT DEFINITION AND ASPECT ARE YOU APPLYIN' TO IT? AND WHEN YOU STRESSED IT IS NOT A VESSEL OF gROWTH AND DECAY, ARE YOU TALKIN' ABOUT INFORMATION THAT IS ACCURATE OT LIFE ITSELF?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You identify with a corpse. I am trying to help you to see and make distinct the LIFE opposed to the dull matter IT indwells."

SO IF WE HAVE LIFE WHY DOES IT INDWELL IN THE CORPSE YOU CALL DULL MATTER? AND HOW ARE YOU SO CERTAIN THAT LIFE DOESN'T VANISH?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "When you say, "I BELIEVE AFTER YOU DIE, YOU'RE DEAD."
this sounds like the words of an atheist."

IT CAN BE PERCEIVED THAT WAY IF YOU TRYIN' TO PERCEIVE ME.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Maybe I am mistaken, but do you not follow in the concept of "afterlife"?"

NOPE, NOT THE WAY THE gENERAL MASSES ARE BRAINWASHED TO THINK AND FOLLOW.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Or do you actually believe that your existence is completely abolished upon expiration of the body?"

AS FAR AS WE KNOW IT IN ACTUALALITY. CAUSE AS I STRESSED BEFORE, THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. SO WHAT REALLY HAPPENS? YOUR BELIEFS, MY BELIEFS? NOW FAITH ON THE OTHA HAND IS WHAT YOU SET TO BE TRUE AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHIN' IT DOESN'T MEAN IT HAPPENED AND IS A DIFFERENT STORY. SO SINCE WE HAVE ALL THESE FAITHS AND BELIEFS FLOATIN' AROUND ABOUT THE AFTER-LIFE, ONE IS TRUE AND THE OTHAS ARE LIES. BUT SINCE WE WILL DISAgREE, WE CAN AgREE THAT THIS LIFE WE LIVE IN AT THE MOMENT WILL CEASE SOONER OR LATER.

 

[Vyasadeva]

[color=sky blue]"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both."[/color]

- Bhagavad-gita Ch. 2 Text 16


[color=sky blue]"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."[/color]

- Bhagavad-Gita Ch. 2 Text 20.

The material body is changing at every moment by the actions and reactions of different cells. The cellular makeup of your body today is completely different from the cellular makeup of your body when you were 5 years old. Yet you still refer to the exact same unchanging and unseen *I*, sense of self, that you did at 5. You still have memories from that time, and even as your body and mind have undergone changes over the years, the *I Am* that you refer to yourself as, has not changed at all.

That this metaphysical *I* remains unchanged even during the constant growth and change of the body/mind machinery is evidence of the eternality of the soul. No beginning and no ending.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

@EDJ


Vyasadeva pretty much answered it for you.

See, I really don't like using the term "afterlife". Life is continuous, it is not a matter of dying and then having another life. There is one life and it proceeds beyond the temporal body. Like Vyasa said, as the body changes that sense of self remains the same. You are always you. That sense of self is the life. Although the body goes through its stages of development, decay and death, the self is transcendental to this and is at a constant level despite the body's conditions. It never becomes anything nor has it ever been anything else.
Any sense of self that identifies with the material body and material designations is called false ego.

I understand your conception of the spirit going back to the memory of the creator is your idea of liberation from the material world. But, death is not necessarily liberation. And although returning to the creator is the ultimate destination, there is nothing to show that one loses their individual identity in this process. This is the Buddhist concept of monism. It is a spiritual fact that we are all individuals and to give this up as some false sense of liberation is spiritual suicide. And there is also every bit a chance of falling again into the material world from this merged state of oneness. So, when you really return to the creator, it won't be a matter of your existence being abolished. From a materialistic sense you will lose identity upon liberation, and that identity is the false ego. The real ego is spiritual and will always be subordinate to the supreme individual. Although we are all part of the Supreme, there will always be a distinguishing between the infinite and the infinitesimal.

 

[EDJ]

^BUT SEE,
ALL THAT KNOWLEDgE YOU STRESSIN' IS MAN-MADE LOgIC. THE VEDIC SCRIPTURES ARE BASED ON WHAT? WHAT MAKES IT SO HOLY? WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE WHAT IT STRESSES? HOW HAS IT PROVEN ITSELF TO BE HOLY AND SACRED AND FROM A HIgHER AUTHORITY AND SOURCE?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^^^^^^^^^^

First of all, scriptural authority should be accompanied by logic. Otherwise it can't be understood. God is not going to give us information that we cannot understand.

Secondly, how do you decide when something comes from a higher authority? How do you decide when something is holy?

 

[EDJ]

^HISTORICAL DATA THAT COINCIDES WITH PROPHECY. PROPHECIES THAT CAME TRUE. COUNSEL THAT NEVA gETS OLD. COUNSEL THAT IS UP TO DATE EVEN IN THIS DAY AND AgE. DIFFERENT BOOKS THAT WERE WRITTEN BY DIFFERENT MEN IN DIFFERENT ERAS BUT STILL COINCIDE IN MESSAgE AND APPLICABILITY. LOgIC THAT MAN CAN ONLY ADHERE AND DOESN'T CONTRADICT. LOgIC THAT WITHSTANDS THE HANDS OF TIME. LOgIC THAT IS NOT OF A MAN FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT MANS LOgIC FALLS TO SELFISHNESS, gREED, AND SELF EXHALTION.