Cuba's great and wonderful conditions (There are too many doctors!)

[Dirty Shoez]

Apparently you're to "dense" to pick up literacy & comprehension. Maybe you should hit up cuba they can help you with your literacy problem.

Quote from my reply where i said i was asked for gum. Do it.

yes, as a person who has been there (took gum with me, chewed gum there, saw people chewing gum, gave kids gum to chew).

Apparently, nobody DID ask. You just walked around like the fucking Chewing Gum Fairy, showering the kids with big handfulls of Juicy Fruit and Big Red.

Odds are this is a fictional character you have made up to support your lies. If not, i'll be waiting for my travel plans so you can witness him getting put in place i don't care what he considers himself to be.

He's as real as real can be, sport. That you cannot accept that a fellow Left-winger (and a minority, and with a doctorate) would spread "propaganda" like this is your own fault.

Maybe gringos get away with more in Cuba. Who knows. All i know is, this man's Spanish would shit all over yours (and rightfully so), and I would tend to trust his education-based knowledge of the culture more than I would your leftist-slanted knowledge.

 

[ColdBlooded]

so where's my itinerary sofa king? we’ll make your dare into reality.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

The return of Tadou. Great.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

While I sometimes lamented tadou's presence, at least we now have a contrarian opinion on most issues - an opinion we often lack on this board. A thread where actual "debate' occurs is highly preferable to pages of preaching to the choir or teaching people who otherwise know nothing.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

You are making the assumption that there is direct price equivalence between what something costs as a dollar and what something costs as pesos. Just because the exchange rate says something should be 40 pesos because it's worth x amount in US dollars doesn't make that the actual price. Certain items are much lower in price in pesos in Cuba when paying with pesos rather than in dollars(fruit is one i can say off the top of my head). Random example(not actual numbers): i want a grapefruit; using cuban pesos the grapefruit could cost 1 peso where that same grapefruit would cost me 1.50 dollars US. So a stick of butter when purchased with US money may cost 2-3 dollars, but it's price in pesos can be far less expensive. This is why your numbers are intentionally misleading (either because you knew it already and are trying to prove your point or because someone else already knew and intentionally mislead you so you could come spout their lies here).

Increasing globalization has led to more and more Cuban goods being priced in dollars. The constant influx of both tourist money and offshore relatives sending money in USD and the fact that there is more money in Cuban tourism than any other sector has led to the push for other, less-lucrative industries such as farming and government services to pay for goods and services either with dollars or at the peso exchange rate.

While many goods and services (the movies, often produce and farmed goods) are paid for solely in pesos, the dollar is becoming increasingly more common in Cuba. (some blame the Government's slow forms of introductory capitalism such as Farmer's Markets)

The exchange rate is not misleading. Saying that people have difficulty living on their government stipends is not misleading. You can read the memoirs of any native Cuban still in Cuba and very pro-Cuba and see this. To say that poverty does not exist in Cuba is misleading. Extreme poverty has been mitigated to some extent, but poverty still exists even among the employed. To make such a claim (poverty does not exist) when often there are major problems with electricity, sewage, roads and transportation is either delusional, ludicrous, or flat out lies.

Those "journalists" and "free speech" advocates are in jail as traitors and they would be in this country as well. Rightfully so.

The have been convicted for their paid actions on behalf of a foreign power that has waged war for more than 40 years against the Cuban people. Anyone who views them as independent "dissidents" striving to create a free and independent civil society fails to see them as what they truly are, instruments of aggression manipulated by the United States. Each is a knowing participant in active operations to overthrow the Cuban government and install a U.S.-sponsored economic, political and social order. Whoever, in his country, receives money from a foreign power to undermine his government, is considered a traitor in any nation in the world, including the United States and Cuba.

Castro's jailing and treatment of dissidents is not merely a defensive move against US-sponsored insurgents. Journalists have been jailed at an exorbitant rate under the Castro regime since its inception. The jailing of dissidents is a trademark of repressive, facist, fake socialist states. Castro can simply launch fireballs of rhetoric and have closed, one-day, nontransparent criminal trials of suspected "insurgents" and simply throw away the key. The fact that his policies are final, sweeping, non-negotiable, and paternalistic is known by nearly everyone in Cuba. There is a political malaise that has set in since the collapse of Soviet support and has been there ever since.

The U.S. government, through numerous channels, finances these supposedly free and independent journalists and agencies in Cuba, overtly and covertly. These people are funded and directed by a hostile government and under such total control, they are neither free nor independent.

They are members of a web of U.S.-led terrorism and constant violation of international law directed against Cuba, leading to the death and incapacitation of more than 5,000 Cuban citizens. What government in the world would sit idly by and watch this happen?

Active involvement in terrorism and subversion makes a person neither peaceful nor worthy of such accolades.

There is a Cuban subversion movement funded and supported by the United States. There always has been. However, Castro has consistently painted anyone with any sort of opposing views as part of this movement. Castro has bought political capital by reducing extreme poverty to sub-par poverty, and thus anyone who speaks out against him is instantly attacked and debased by you, or 206, or someone else, who hold the same "Miami-US-terror-Republican" conspiracy theory views about anyone speaking out against Cuba, views similar to the way everyone and everything down to day-to-day events are painted as a Zionist conspiracy in the Arab media.

Are the voices of any Cubano in the US instantly null and irrelevent? Does the fact that people are willing to die to escape Cuba mean nothing? Was Elian Gonzalez and family a group of covert US operatives with nicknames like "Green Squirrel" and "Red Walrus" returning to base after covert newspaper and e-zine ops? Is this sort of like the "liberal media" in America trying to debase President Bush?

Castro and his regime has a human rights violations list that reads like the life's work of a novelist - and it's not just in American media. You can hear or read stories of brutality, repression, and illiberal government tactics in Cuba by Cubanos and other all over Latin America. The UN has repeatedly called for the end of human rights violations in Cuba - the same UN which you quote to prove the hypocrisy and wrongdoing of America and Israel. As a matter of fact, every international organization ever listed on this board in criticism of America or Israel or any other US ally is likely to have a public statement against Castro's repressive policies.

If you want to simply shut down intellectually and ignore the huge body of evidence regarding Castro and his homeboys' crimes, you can. That's your choice. For all the shit you talk about Christians living in la la land because they cannot prove their religion, it seems almost comic that you choose on purpose to dismiss all of the printed literature, international disregard, and documented abuses as a US conspiracy simply because that would put a black mark on your carefully created socialist idealism chart on which Castro gets a happy face.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

Bippity Boppity Boo

 

[ColdBlooded]

Bippity Boppity Boo

often risking their lives to reach Florida

Because the U.S. ensures they take the most dangerous rout possible.

It has to do with the Cuban Adjustment Act.

The Cuban Adjustment act, was adopted by the US congress on the 2nd of November of 1966, under the Lyndon Johnson administration. It's main provision was to change the legal status of the Cuban immigrants; to treat them as political refugees and to grant them political asylum; and as such provide them immediately with privileges that no other group enjoys, such as, automatic permanent residence status - all without review and without the usual waiting time.

This privileged law affords the Cuban illegal immigrant the opportunity, to work legally, to govt. welfare, to unemployment benefits, and to free medical care. Things that the average immigrant (and US citizen) by no means is entitled to.

Their government, unlike that in the U.S., does not prevent people from leaving that do decide to do so. And in fact these people are forced by the U.S. government and the powerful Cuban-American terrorist lobby to take these unsafe craft for their voyage to the U.S. If the U.S. government or the powerful Cuba-American lobby were concerned with the well fair of these people and in seeing them on a safe voyage to the U.S. then they would provide for safe travel for them. But how much anti-Cuba publicity would that stir up? “Well today 2 Cubans flew from Havana to Miami on a 747 and landed safely.” Its much more important for their propaganda to show people on these boats trying to leave. Provide them with safe travel and they’d take it.

Approximately 4 thousand illegal immigrants arrive in the US daily, almost three times more than arrive illegally each year from Cuba. How often do you see their plight on the news? Very little. But of course the "free" press is always stacked against Cuba. When 5 or six boat people arrive from Cuba you are bound to hear it on the 6 o'clock news. The Miami Press controlled by the old Batistianos is even worse. The length of the news that the Cuban boat people are afforded is considerably more than given to other boat people. In essence what it's really about is to entice Cubans to leave illegally so that we can see it on the 6 o'clock news.

It has nothing to do with humanity, this law is really evil in intent; for if you think about it, as the result of this diabolical law, many have, over the years, risked and lost their lives.


In fact the U.S. repeatedly denies visas to Cuban citizens who apply for them. After repeated denials obviously people will be frustrated with the U.S. and knowing full well that the Cuban Adjustment act exists, granting full and immediate immigrant status with all the perks, they steal boats (or indenture themselves to Cuban-American exile terrorists that illegally traffic people). Either they make it to the U.S. and gain immigrant status or die in unsafe craft. People that get caught by Cuban coast guard after stealing boats obviously go to jail, just as they would in any other country. But once in jail that is when the U.S. interest section comes calling (after repeatedly ignoring attempts at a visa for legal immigration to the US) saying now they are ready to grant them a visa if they sign statements declaring themselves political prisoners. Should shed some light on this "political prisoner" issue, at least the majority of the cases, which the person is a legitimate criminal.

The INS is authorized to grant 20,000 visas annually to Cubans, but rarely fills any of them.

Now if the US has an immigration law and mechanism that allow Cubans to leave the island legally why then does the US have another policy enticing people to leave illegally and purposely never use the legal means?

Cuban emigrants are not the product of a "right wing media" conspiracy to paint Cuba as a bad place. There is little or no anti-Cuba or anti-Castro media in Cuba. .

Radio & Television Marti not to mention all the short and medium rage wave fq
U.S. violates ITU regulations daily

the people are starving

You know, all this sore asshole feelings people have for Castro and Socialism is one thing. But things like this to me are too far. It's just made up. Like you can't chew gum in cuba. The people are guarneteed food, shelter, healthcare, and education and it's tops among the developing world in all of it. People not liking the system or the figurehead is one thing. But making things up isn't how you win a debate. It's the sign of a losing battle when you have to resort to things like this for your side to seem superior.

 

[ColdBlooded]

Increasing globalization has led to more and more Cuban goods being priced in dollars. The constant influx of both tourist money and offshore relatives sending money in USD and the fact that there is more money in Cuban tourism than any other sector has led to the push for other, less-lucrative industries such as farming and government services to pay for goods and services either with dollars or at the peso exchange rate.

Out dated information. Stay current.

Castro's jailing and treatment of dissidents is not merely a defensive move against US-sponsored insurgents.

Name any of the"journalists" who has been jailed in recent history who has not been fincanced by the U.S. I won't hold my breath.

For all the shit you talk about Christians living in la la land because they cannot prove their religion, it seems almost comic that you choose on purpose to dismiss all of the printed literature, international disregard, and documented abuses as a US conspiracy simply because that would put a black mark on your carefully created socialist idealism chart on which Castro gets a happy face.

First person knowledge will do that. :dead:

 

[DubbC415]

Dirty Havana Trilogy by Pedro Juan Gutierriez. Great read, whether u see it as fiction or nonfiction.

 

[LA Dodgers]

And in fact these people are forced by the U.S. government and the powerful Cuban-American terrorist lobby to take these unsafe craft for their voyage to the U.S.

how are we forcing people to travel here through shark infested waters???? are we forcing them to come here or are they coming here of their own free will??? why do they feel that it is worth it to risk their lives to come here?????


going to the extremes that they go through in order to get here alone should speak volumes of the country they are leaving behind???


people talk about how bad we have it here, and how if bush43 got reelected they were going to move to another country. but why are they still here, why hasnt any1 moved away???

but the cubans down in Cuba DO do it. that alone tells me it is pretty bad.
===============================================================

a couple years back i heard an interview with a Former Olypic Gold Medalist in Boxing from Cuba. his name is Joel Casamayor, basically what he said was how proud he was about representing Cuba and how Casrto himself told him that if he brought home a gold medal he would buy him a new car. he then said when he arrived at home castro sent him a BIKE, and a USED one at that.

he said he lived a poor life his entire life, and that that was the last straw and he too decided to ESCAPE from Cuba

 

[ColdBlooded]

how are we forcing people to travel here through shark infested waters????

dumb fuck

If the U.S. government or the powerful Cuba-American lobby were concerned with the well fair of these people and in seeing them on a safe voyage to the U.S. then they would provide for safe travel for them.


It has nothing to do with humanity


In fact the U.S. repeatedly denies visas to Cuban citizens who apply for them.


The INS is authorized to grant 20,000 visas annually to Cubans, but rarely fills any of them.

Now if the US has an immigration law and mechanism that allow Cubans to leave the island legally why then does the US have another policy enticing people to leave illegally and purposely never use the legal means?

 

[ColdBlooded]

I'd also like to add that i have my own criticisms of Cuba, the economy, the government, etc I don't blindly side with every policy or decision made from the island just because it's a Cuban policy or decision. As much as people would love to think i do, they are obviously misled about that as well. Is Cuba a perfect paradise of rainbows, happy thoughts and dreams and chocolate unicorns, licorice sunsets and fuzzy gumdrops bears? No, though ice cream is quite popular.

Yet i disagree with the majority of the accusations made within this thread.





"As we say, dust will accumulate if a room is not cleaned regularly, our faces will get dirty if they are not washed regularly. Our comrades' minds and our Party's work may also collevt dust, and also need sweeping and washing. The proverb "running water is never stale and a door-hinge is never worm-eaten" means that constant motionprevents the inroads of germs and other organism. . . . To feat neither criticism nor self-criticism . . . this is the only effective way to prevent all kinds of political dust and germs from contaminating the minds of our comrades and the body of our party" - Quotation from Chairman Mao Tse-Tung "On Coalition Government" (April 24, 1945), Selected Works, Vol. III, pp. 316-317