Cuba's great and wonderful conditions (There are too many doctors!)

[WHITE DEVIL]

After hearing preaching about the grandness of Castro and the greatness of Cuba I did some research, watched a few documentaries, pro and con, hit up the internet, the library, etc.

The bottom line is: bullshit. People are starving and dying on the government monthly pay. Most "doctors" and "lawyers" make 50-100 dollars a month. Prostitution is more often not out of drug use, alchohol, or emotional damage, but simple economics. Many female and male prostitutes are dentists, doctors, attorneys, etc. during the day, and prostitute during the night in order to pay the bills and get ahead economically.

American prostitutes are often toothless crackwhores who are already fuckin torched in the mind to the point where they couldn't succeed with a job and a roof over their heads. Many Cuban prostitutes don't even smoke cigarettes...it's a whole different situation out there. Preach about the greatness of Castro in theory or on paper if you want, but don't ever say Cuba is a great and wonderful country.

The press is censored, the people are starving and dying, often risking their lives to reach Florida.

Cuban emigrants are not the product of a "right wing media" conspiracy to paint Cuba as a bad place. There is little or no anti-Cuba or anti-Castro media in Cuba. One way the people rebel is through music, which such crazy, rebellious statements as "Mama, Yo tengo amigos in Miami", which, believe it or not, is a hell of a thing to say.

Castro sucks. His people are eating mud cakes, janitors and lawyers alike.

The US embargo could definitely have a great deal to do with it, but painting Castro as a great and revolutionary man is bullshit. No revolutionary censors speech or has a robocop division assigned to jailing journalists.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

And the U.S. is much better?? Please...

 

[JLMACN]

^^^^ WTF!!!

@CB....yea Castro has fucked that place up somethin good..

5000

 

[ColdBlooded]

you pulled a lot of shit out of your ass to make this thread

Good research


Throwing out an abstract set of numbers and trying to construe it as factual wage statistics is bad enough. But it is also quite misleading. When your health care, home, utilities, transportation, education, and food are already paid for your wage is virtually disposable income to use for personal items. Being paid in Cuban pesos and buying items with pesos often gives pesos a higher value for many items rather than converting to pesos and buying things in dollar stores. So trying to compare purchase power with dollar statistics is also misleading.

After paying my monthly rent, health care bills, utilities, transportation, tuition, and food costs i'm lucky if i have $100 bucks for myself each month and my healthcare isn't as close to as good.

I don't know how many Cuban prostitutes or educated professionals you or your sources have actually met, but it certainly isn't many, if any at all because there isn't any factual basis for your gross generalizations about the country's prostitution or how the educated professionals supplement their income. Fact and actual experience with the people prove otherwise.

People aren't starving, aren't homeless, aren't uneducated, aren't without excellent healthcare.

Just wondering, but how did you even come up with MANY prostitutes don't smoke tobacco? Admit it you just totally made that up along with the rest of this because you were bored and wanted to spark a lil controversy/debate over something that people get served on regularly in this forum.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

I did a decent amount of research a few weekends ago, spent a friday off at the library, watched a few documentaries both pro and con, and that's the overall picture I got.

If you want I can come back with sources and book titles. I guess I should have, and that way you can google how they're all US propaganda. People don't die to escape Cuba because it's such a wonderful place. Castro regularly censors and jails opposition. Every international organization you have quoted to prove the foulness of the US has spoke out against his treatment of journalists and free speech in his country. The "amigos in miami" quote is from a song in a book I read about Cuban salsa.

I guess I'll have to cite and quote to argue against the socialist google network that defends these boards, so I guess I'll be back with better sourcing.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

There is a simple equation used by many on these boards to determine the overall quality of a leader/country/movement.

If US hates = 1, then for all values x = Great!

US hates Saddam, Saddam must be Great!
US hates Iran, Iran must be Great!
US hates Cuba, Cuba must be Great!

And so on and so on. The embargo is definitely outdated, and US policy towards Cuba is ridiculous, still, Cuba is no way a socialist paradise. I read the memoir of a college professor of Marxism (not anti-Castro, not anti-Cuba) who sold homegrown vegetables 4 hours a day to supplement his income. According to him, nearly everyone has some sort of second job, and even then most struggled to feed their families and provide bare necessities. Luxuries and dispensibles are not even part of the equation.

As for the professional prostitutes, there is a word in Spanish, I forget what it is. I suppose after I go do a book report and source all my research so you can Googlekill it. Until then, you're all right, Cuba is paradise.

 

[28g w/o the bag]

And the U.S. is much better?? Please...

well, i'm pretty sure the doctors here make more than $100 a month...

 

[2-0-Sixx]

White Devil, out of curiosity, has anyone on the siccness claimed Cuba is a Socialist Paradise?

 

[Dirty Shoez]

Me. Yesterday. (Or was it Today?)


Did you all realize that Chewing Gum is illegal in Cuba? Apparently, its because its "too American" and if people start chewing gum, the next thing you know, they'll be rebelling against the government. Fucking hilarious stuff.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

Not exactly, but Cuba and Fidel are frequently given far more credit than they should recieve. Cuba is painted as a grand and wonderful place, and any underresearched, UC Berkeley produced article by a graduate zine writer that lays a claim on Cuban grandiosity and utopian state (ten points for including US racism) is hoisted as biblical literature.

In Cuba, the people who even have the chance to spend on anything that isn't food or shoes either:

• Have two or three jobs
• Have relatives in the US who send back money
• Have a prostitute in their family
• Own real estate, which they underreport to the Government to stop taxes

There is little or no participatory democracy in Cuba. Fidel's official opinion is "The people can tell me their complaints and I will listen, but I will make the decisions as I see fit."

Over time, the view of many people in Cuba has been a wholesale dissatisfaction with participation in Cuban politics. En masse, many have stopped giving a shit. There is a centralized economy that is linked to a centralized, one-party state. Thus, many people work hardest to not get into trouble, risking government fines and their job status, instead of working their hardest to produce.

There is little or no discussion about how to change the system and what is wrong with the people in power. State-sponsored media accounts for most of the media and little even gets near criticism.

Food is not free, only very cheap. Sometimes, the low price of food, however, is still too much for some people.

Problems exist in Cuba that do not exist in most Western countries. There are often rampant power outages, water issues, little or no maintained roads, sewage problems, and the bus system for public transportation is harsh, unforgiving, crowded, and insufficient. Most Cubans work 6 days a week and Sunday, the day they have off, sees a reduced bus schedule. This and many other issues if public health and safety have not yet come anywhere close to being solved.

The government pay is not enough for a good standard of living. Plain and simple. Add that growing globalization has moved many Cuban goods into being sold in dollar amounts versus pesos, and you have a recipe for major peso inflation which has been steadily climbing since the early 90's. In the socialist sector of the economy, workers earn from 100 to 2000 pesos a month, which is roughly 100 dollars. The average monthly income is about 200 pesos a month. A stick of butter can be 2-3 dollars (40-60 pesos). This means that, like I said before with my "Imaginary figures" as CB so eloquently put it, everyday items put a high strain on wages. Many people who were once doctors, lawyers, etc., change their work to tourism-related industries, taxis, prosititution, etc.

On the plus side:

The education is good. There are no private schools and the quality of the education remains the same no matter where you come from. This is somewhat mitigated, though, by the poor quality of food in schools, underpaid teachers, and outdated equipment with which to conduct science/physics/computer classes, etc.

The people care about the common good and are committed to reducing poverty. The government states that as its goal, but it, in fact, does little self-examination.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

well, i'm pretty sure the doctors here make more than $100 a month...

Well, if you're saying you judge a country completely by how much the doctor's make in dollars, then I can't argue with you.

 

[ColdBlooded]

Me. Yesterday. (Or was it Today?)


Did you all realize that Chewing Gum is illegal in Cuba? Apparently, its because its "too American" and if people start chewing gum, the next thing you know, they'll be rebelling against the government. Fucking hilarious stuff.

you get the idiot award for the week for being such a complete fucking moron that you would believe something like that

 

[ColdBlooded]

white devil i have a responce for you later

 

[Dirty Shoez]

you get the idiot award for the week for being such a complete fucking moron that you would believe something like that

So are YOU PERSONALLY--some guy on the internet who has probably NEVER BEEN to Cuba--contradicting a Mexican professor (doctorate) of Mexican culture who HAS been there? Is that the case?

I want you to come down to Guadalajara, and call this man an idiot to his face. I fucking dare you, it would be hilarious.

 

[ColdBlooded]

yes, as a person who has been there (took gum with me, chewed gum there, saw people chewing gum, gave kids gum to chew).

i'd love to come tell him to his face he's a liar and a sack of shit for spreading lies like that to ignorant little fucks like yourself that take it as gospel

lace me with some travel arrangements and i'll come down and do it

your sofa king award still stands

 

[HERESY]

Cuba is a great and wonderful country.

 

[JLMACN]

the cigars are real dope!!!!

i luv em..

5000

 

[Dirty Shoez]

yes, as a person who has been there (took gum with me, chewed gum there, saw people chewing gum, gave kids gum to chew).

i'd love to come tell him to his face he's a liar and a sack of shit for spreading lies like that to ignorant little fucks like yourself that take it as gospel

lace me with some travel arrangements and i'll come down and do it

your sofa king award still stands

I've chewed gum many-a-time in mexico...never have i been asked for gum by a kid or anyone else. That should have been your hint right there, but i guess you're too dense.

Chewing Gum is illegal in Cuba the same way Jaywalking is illegal in the states: against the law, but not typically enforced.

And yes, I would love to see you come down here and slap-up a fellow Socialist. That would be hilarious. Instead of working together for Socialist ideals, you could both fight each other over Cuba and Chewing Gum.

 

[ColdBlooded]

Just a few things real quick i don't have time to hit up everything

In the socialist sector of the economy, workers earn from 100 to 2000 pesos a month, which is roughly 100 dollars. The average monthly income is about 200 pesos a month. A stick of butter can be 2-3 dollars (40-60 pesos). This means that, like I said before with my "Imaginary figures" as CB so eloquently put it, everyday items put a high strain on wages.

You are making the assumption that there is direct price equivalence between what something costs as a dollar and what something costs as pesos. Just because the exchange rate says something should be 40 pesos because it's worth x amount in US dollars doesn't make that the actual price. Certain items are much lower in price in pesos in Cuba when paying with pesos rather than in dollars(fruit is one i can say off the top of my head). Random example(not actual numbers): i want a grapefruit; using cuban pesos the grapefruit could cost 1 peso where that same grapefruit would cost me 1.50 dollars US. So a stick of butter when purchased with US money may cost 2-3 dollars, but it's price in pesos can be far less expensive. This is why your numbers are intentionally misleading (either because you knew it already and are trying to prove your point or because someone else already knew and intentionally mislead you so you could come spout their lies here).

spoke out against his treatment of journalists and free speech in his country.

Funny because i witnessed people openly criticise the government and castro (even paid government employees and members of the communist party).

Those "journalists" and "free speech" advocates are in jail as traitors and they would be in this country as well. Rightfully so.

The have been convicted for their paid actions on behalf of a foreign power that has waged war for more than 40 years against the Cuban people. Anyone who views them as independent "dissidents" striving to create a free and independent civil society fails to see them as what they truly are, instruments of aggression manipulated by the United States. Each is a knowing participant in active operations to overthrow the Cuban government and install a U.S.-sponsored economic, political and social order. Whoever, in his country, receives money from a foreign power to undermine his government, is considered a traitor in any nation in the world, including the United States and Cuba.

The U.S. government, through numerous channels, finances these supposedly free and independent journalists and agencies in Cuba, overtly and covertly. These people are funded and directed by a hostile government and under such total control, they are neither free nor independent.

They are members of a web of U.S.-led terrorism and constant violation of international law directed against Cuba, leading to the death and incapacitation of more than 5,000 Cuban citizens. What government in the world would sit idly by and watch this happen?

Active involvement in terrorism and subversion makes a person neither peaceful nor worthy of such accolades.

 

[ColdBlooded]

I've chewed gum many-a-time in mexico...never have i been asked for gum by a kid or anyone else. That should have been your hint right there, but i guess you're too dense.

Apparently you're to "dense" to pick up literacy & comprehension. Maybe you should hit up cuba they can help you with your literacy problem.

Quote from my reply where i said i was asked for gum. Do it.

And yes, I would love to see you come down here and slap-up a fellow Socialist. That would be hilarious. Instead of working together for Socialist ideals, you could both fight each other over Cuba and Chewing Gum.

Odds are this is a fictional character you have made up to support your lies. If not, i'll be waiting for my travel plans so you can witness him getting put in place i don't care what he considers himself to be.