Clones. Real people or soul-less shells?

[n9newunsixx5150]

No one is "playing God".....

YOU ARE NOT YOUR FACE. YOU ARE NOT YOUR EYE COLOR. YOU ARE NOT YOUR NOSE STRUCTURE. YOU ARE NOT YOUR SKIN COLOR. YOU ARE NOT EVEN YOUR DNA..........

These things are not YOU. They are simply traits which will pass with the physical body. To suppose that we are creating people as God creates people is ridiculous thought. We are creating as much, cloning, as we are just begetting normally. There is an obvious degree of control on how the child will look by normal procreation. You have 2 people with certain traits, the offspring is controlled between multiple combinations of these traits from the parents. The only difference with cloning is instead of having 2 people to combine traits in multiple ways, you have one person. No one is playing God........................

 

[Cameron]

By creating life using machines and technology, and controling your genetics is not the way God intended it to be....

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

no one is creating life by using machines.

Why does God not intend it? Because we could never do it before? Having more control on genetics does not take away from God's job! you are not you genetic make-up! we do not create souls!

 

[Cameron]

I'm sure they use some kind of machines that carry out the technology. Having control and manipulating genetics is not out place. If you agree with it, then that's on you. In my personal opinon don't agree.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

fine, its your opinion. I respect that. but don't confuse God with yourself.

 

[Snubnoze]

Who's to say that god creates life anyways? When two people have sex and have a baby is that "playing god?"

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

quote:
When two people have sex and have a baby is that "playing god?"




Exactly. Its as much "creating" life by cloning as it is for 2 people having a baby.

 

[Snubnoze]

And also, technically, Jesus is Gods only begatin son.... so the only way we would be playing God by creating life is if we created another Jesus............

 

[Cameron]

but don't confuse God with yourself.

^^same applies to you..

When two people have sex and have a baby is that "playing god?

NO, that's the way God intended. That's has nothing to do with cloning a human being...

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

We're speaking of a (would be) real person. Yes, a clone is a real person! If you found out tomorrow that your best friend was a clone, would you tell him that he is a transgression against God? What you believe as being unintended by God is merely your opinion. God loves all his children. God will not condemn someone for something they have no control of. An egg and a sperm are still used in making a clone. We aren't building robots here!

 

[XianeX]

test tube babys, artificial insemenation, cloning. LOL guess they all dont have souls.

but first give a concrete definition of a soul. what is the substance there of.

 

[Cameron]

I didn't say God would condemn clones. Now the scientists that are using these machines and technology to manipulate genetics to creat clones of human race, that might be a different story. I don't know, I'm not God. I'm just against it.

 

[Cameron]

test tube babys, artificial insemenation, cloning. LOL guess they all dont have souls.

test tube babys, artifucial insemenation those are totaly different from cloning.

 

[Cameron]

check this out....maybe you might get something out of it.

http://www.sciencentral.com/news/articles/view.php3?article_id=218391822

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

@Pitty

quote:
"It's wrong to make a human baby that's a duplicate of an existing person," says leading medical ethicist George Annas...




Then I guess to be born a twin is bad too. Just because the "clone" looks the same as the one who was cloned doesn't mean they are the same person inside. I agree with this "therapeutic cloning". It makes more sense to do it that way, rather than engineering an entire person from someone's DNA. But, what we are talking about on this thread is whether or not a clone has a soul.
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@XianeX

There really isn't a single concrete definition of a soul. Soul is beyond substance. It is the individualized point of spirit which dwells within each of our own beings. It is the invisible fundamental basis of life which, from there, manifests our physical being.......

 

[XianeX]

i dont believe souls exist. i believe in life is THE "soul" and i believe that humans are cleverly created machines.

cloning is just another cracc in the fabric of "christic" thinking. "souls" cannont be cloned. in all likely hood they dont even exist. no matter what the DNA RNA etc. a clone (at the current premise of development) will not be the same person.

there will always be an anomile. ( hence dolly's delemna )

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Given that the physical world that we know is at constant change and decay, (it is born and so it dies), The idea of spirit is simply that "essence" back of all things which is unchanging, undecaying and eternal. Spirit is what holds the "unstable" physical world in existence. The basic idea makes sense, philosophically. But, of course, can't be studied scientifically. It would need to be of substance in order to be studied. The physical world cannot fall back on itself for stability because it has no stability. It is not static, but ever-changing. Spirit is static. it is the essence of life.

I agree with you that souls cannot be cloned. When you say you don't believe souls exist and then you say, "In life is THE "soul"", what do you mean? It seems to contradict itself. If you are implying that you do not believe that souls exist as a seperate entity but a part of life then I agree. We only divide the physical from the spiritual to learn each idea. In truth they fade into each other..................

 

[XianeX]

by "the soul" means that all existence share's the "lifeforce". e.g. the soul = the lifeforce. but thats just my humble definition of the intangible that it is.

since all living things contain the lifeforce we are all on the same plane divided by physical mechanics. we from single celled organisms up to human beings share a single soul we are all the same and derived from the same source. our divisions come from our physicality and circumstance.

the misinterpretation of cloning is the ideal that a personality is cloneable which is IMPOSSIBLE. once people differentiate that concept from mechanical replication they will have a better respect for the misnomer of "cloning"

marinara

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

I agree with all you just stated.

 

[Al-Kaholik]

One major problem that I can see with clones is the event that a "perfect human" gets created and the rest of us wether fat,stupid,ugly,predisposed to cancer,diseases running in the family etc. get labeled inferior and destroyed by the clones, now we are nowhere near this point at the moment but far down in the future this could be a real good possibility.