Careers in music...

[MOREBASS]

Alright, I know this has probably been discussed before, but besides being a big name producer, engineer, artist, etc. How hard is it to get into the industry, and make a living out of it. I'm not talking Bentleys, and mansions, just something that you could live off of, and be comfortable. And what types of opportunities are there, besides the obvious ?



And what steps would someone take to get to these careers...?

 

[GHP]

lol dont get me started, I could go on for days. Bitter recording school grad

 

[HERESY]

I'll answer this tommorow. Gotta get some sleep, I gotta get to school and help out one of my teachers in the morning.

 

[MOREBASS]

^ Right on Heresy.


Whats up Jayda ? The reason I was asking is because I was seriously looking at Ex'pressions...for their Sound Arts program. Now, I work in the medical field now, and the money is okay, but it just doesn't really make me happy.

And I don't see it doing that for me, regardless of how much I'm making.

Its just that the medical field seems more full proof than music, as far as being able to get a job. I don't know too many people who actually work in music, doing anything so I thought I'd ask.

 

[HERESY]

I know cats who went to Full Sail and Ex'pressions, and they are all close to commiting suicide because they haven't found work and are now in debt. Your education is an INVESTMENT. So if you look at it from that perspective you may be able to spin it into something else. However, if you think you are going to graduate from one of these schools and go directly into the studio you are mistaken. You'll pull coffee runs for a year before they even let you SMELL the mixing room. However, I also know a guy who has some type of music degree and he makes a living setting up the BIG shows that come to the bay area. All the big shows that come here he has to help setup, sound check etc. He's the shit at live sound, but can't tell you shit when in the studio.

Personally, I don't need RAP music to survive, and I actually dislike a lot of the hoop jumping and politics (especially in the bay.)

The ones who "make it" are usually the ones who are at it for years, have some type of business savy, and constantly put themselves out there for people to see. If you want the perks and all that shit you have to be in front of people, but if you are a person like me, who really doesn't give a damn about all of that, you can still get in, make some loot and get out before anyone knew you even existed.

The only steps I can suggest you take is to go into business for yourself, or to get someone to place your music for you. Also, music/entertainment law is an option you can look at and so is management. The first thing you should do is figure out what it is exactly you want to do and see if that is a realistic option for you at this point in time.

 

[imported_jay_jay]

Its all about who you know and no matter what your going to have to pay your dues some how....

 

[HERESY]

^^^ How much "dues" do you have to pay when you are in the hole $15,000 - $30,000 because of some school and a degree you'll never really use unless you teach or luck up on a job??????????

Fuck paying dues. I tell anyone, if you want to fall into the trap of "paying dues" go right ahead. This is a dog eat dog world, and if you want to get stuck on paying dues you'll do so for the rest of your life.

 

[GHP]

I went to recording arts school and think it was the biggest mistake i made in my young life. Sure I learned alot but the school fucked me over and couldnt get me into any studio in the bay dispite having perfect attendance and pulling an above average GPA. I had bills so I got a regular job. One thing you have to know about these recording schools is they are churning out more grads than there are studios for them to work in. they produce a revolving door of free help to studios and hardly anyone ever gets hired. Most the time they expect you to pull 60 hour weeks for free in these studios and if you dont do it you are done.

Expressions is a 60K school Do not go, there isn't anything in those schools you cant learn by opening a book. I actually owned the exact book they taught traditional recording from before i ever went to cras. My advice to you is to continue your education in something else and maybe throw in a class in recording at the local community college, they all have them.

Sure Those fancy schools have SSLs and Neves and shit but honestly after school you'll probably never see one again. Save your money, buy books and gear. I fuckin wish I did cuz I gave up a very good living in the military as a public relations specialist to go to that school and dont have much to show for it. I took a massive pay cut and cant find a job the pays nearly as well as what I was seeing.

I'm going back to school next spring cuz whats going on right now ain't really happining for me. All I really got from that school is a a gang of knowledge about shit i cant afford and about 20 grand in debt from student loans and credit cards. I get worked up thinking about all the stress attrending that school produced and seeing the end result. Sure you can say that is just one case but the validictorian my my class got fucked as well, I think 4 out of the 12 people in my class are doing anything and none of em are seeing any money. The ones who are doing anything got mommy and daddy to pay their way and thats something i didnt have.

Another tidbit of information, if the industry dont work out for you your little recording degree isn't worth the paper it was printed on. Its a super specialized degree that isn't much use to anyone except in a studio, live sound etc. Its pretty much make it in the industry or you are fucked.

PS Hersey is right live sound is the best way to go, you get paid well straight off the bat even as a gopher and you get benifits in alot of places you can at least make a half way living which is something a studio wont do. Most recording school grads are scared of live sound cuz its alot of dirty work and usually not that glamourous. Check out Mccune Sound and Lighting, that was one of the 10 places my lame ass internship rep couldnt get me into. I dont think the mutherfucker even tried to place me.

 

[MOREBASS]

Damn, right on folks.


Doesn't really sound like its worth the investment. Well, not worth trying to make a living off of it at least.

 

[Mr. Samos]

If you have your own studio and are constantly investing in it and own or plan to own a record label or some kind of production company or WHATEVER in the present future, and that's what you want to do, period, is run your own shit and get yourself out there then school ain't a bad idea. I recommend community colleges though. Seattle I've heard, has a great set of courses in professional audio recording/production.

Obviously if you can't APPLY or DO ANYTHING with what you've learned then your wasting your time. I can't stand to see people waste their education. Even if it's not entirely their fault, it still is their fault. You can't RELY on a school to handle the rest of your life and place you in a job and have you set. That's not being realistic.

Peace

 

[HERESY]

If the plan is to own your own shit schools that deal specifically with studios and audio engineering probably isn't the best way to go, but I do suggest pro tools certification if possible.

If you have 60 racks and you spend that on education you are now 60 racks in the hole and have nothing to show for except for a piece of paper. Now if you have 60 racks, spend 30-40 on gear and another 12k on someone coming in and teaching you 5 days a week for a year straight on how to use your shit you'll have knowledge, have your hands on training and will have something tangible to show for AND you would have saved at least 8 grand.

 

[Tall T]

If the plan is to own your own shit schools that deal specifically with studios and audio engineering probably isn't the best way to go, but I do suggest pro tools certification if possible.

If you have 60 racks and you spend that on education you are now 60 racks in the hole and have nothing to show for except for a piece of paper. Now if you have 60 racks, spend 30-40 on gear and another 12k on someone coming in and teaching you 5 days a week for a year straight on how to use your shit you'll have knowledge, have your hands on training and will have something tangible to show for AND you would have saved at least 8 grand.

^thats some true shit right there... I gotta talk to my boy about this. He wants to go to some big recording college in Florida (forget the name) but its hella pricey.

 

[GHP]

^Full sail 70K school, All these schools do is sell dreams and they cant follow through with most of the things they promised. Like for instance my school promised me an internship which they didn't deliver on. They have a full fledged internship dept that did not do their job. They told us not to even contact the studios cuz they were to handle it but they didn't at least not for me. I had to get my stuff on my own by writing off my hours by using my own gear. great job dave, i appreciate your hard work.

If you can somehow come up with enough money to go to a 70k school that doesnt offer dorms or any kind of room and board, then are able to work for free for at least year after graduating then recording school might be for you. It takes a certain drive and some people are able to make some kind of living out of it but I'm just being honest most dont as opposed to spending money to get a convensial degree where you pretty much are guarenteed to make a good living apon graduation. you make the choice. Personally I wish I spent my tuition money to go to a more stabile surefire way to make a living.

Dont let me burst your bubble, I just dont want those schools to try to mislead you. They try to make it look like you are trying to get accepted to harvard to get in there and your gonna be a superstar by going which isnt the case at all. those admissions reps get paid very well to get people in there. You start to get a dose of reality when you actually start going to those schools though. I think its funny that most of the teachers and project staff at my school were former students, probably cuz it was the only paying job they could get. Dont say i didn't try to warn you.

I love audio, its still something i have a passion for but I'm just saying its not easy and a degree from ome of those schools doesnt guarentee you jack shit. I still plan to do things on my own terms when my cash flow is right. That why i plan to continue my education into something more solid so i can have extra cash to put into the things i like to do.

 

[Jack Tracks]

fuck 70k... im at the LA Recording School Right now, learning hella shit... just passed my PT 101 test on my way to getting certified as PT expert.. this shit is only like 15k for the whole thang... im hella happy with everything so far. I know finding work aint gonna be easy, but nuthing in life is easy... And nothing is handed to you, espicially in the music business.. go out and make something happen.. of course going to school doesnt guarentee u a job or an internship or anything.. it gives u the knowlege to be sucessful in ur feild when ur done.. step ur game up! go get it 4 urself...

 

[MOREBASS]

^ Jack, is that the one on Sunset ? I checked that place out, I guess they were having a concert there, looked coo...how you like it out there ?

 

[Sick Wid It]

Honestly, there's other type of work where you can make way more money in way less time. In my opinion, I wouldn't advise anyone to pay $70k/year to learn to be an engineer or whatever. There's WAY more school graduates then there is job openings so you're already at a disadvantage the day you graduate. If anything find yourself a decent 9-5 and do your learning as an intern at nights, study, etc. You don't have to have hands-on SSL experience to become good, you just need a good teacher who's willing to share his knowledge.

If money is your motivation then definitely look into other careers that have higher payoffs and job growth.

 

[HERESY]

How the fuck are you gonna tell him to step his game up when he spent tens of thousands of dollars on his education and was lured by the schools promise of "job/internship placement"?

What it be fair for me to tell you that you need to stepo your game up because I'm already PT certified and didn't need to spend 15k on education? Would it be fair for me to tell you to step your cognitive skills up because I didn't have to go to school to learn what I know?

 

[Sick Wid It]

I forgot to comment on something Heresy pointed out... Your education is an investment. No sane person would dump tens of thousands of dollars into any old stock or investment without getting all the facts so why would education be any different?

As with any investment you want to do your research & homework. What's the market look like? What's the growth look like? What's the saturation look like? How long does it take on average to see a return? This is all stuff you should learn about if you're depending on this investment to pay your bills.

 

[Doberman]

Kinda off subject! Kinda not. I went to ITT here in San Diego. Trying to learn all this important stuff I "thought" I needed to know to get a decent job. I realized that my ultimate goal was NOT to work for someone else. It was to be in business for myself. The certs I would of earned would be important for the rest of the world to look at as some proof you know what you talkin about and know how to do it. If you in this for yourself and want to be your own boss, then the "Paid" education is a waste of time. I took a few practice exams online, hardware, software and networking and passed them all. Without the aid of "Paid" schooling. It was from my own research and reading of books I bought at the store or articles I read online...asking questions and listening to other people who knew stuff I didn't. This can apply anywhere.

 

[nonstopheat209]

Kinda off subject! Kinda not. I went to ITT here in San Diego. Trying to learn all this important stuff I "thought" I needed to know to get a decent job. I realized that my ultimate goal was NOT to work for someone else. It was to be in business for myself. The certs I would of earned would be important for the rest of the world to look at as some proof you know what you talkin about and know how to do it. If you in this for yourself and want to be your own boss, then the "Paid" education is a waste of time. I took a few practice exams online, hardware, software and networking and passed them all. Without the aid of "Paid" schooling. It was from my own research and reading of books I bought at the store or articles I read online...asking questions and listening to other people who knew stuff I didn't. This can apply anywhere.

So did you end up in business for yourself?