Brazil's Indians offended by Pope comments

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May 13, 2002
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montyslaw.blogspot.com
#1
Brazil's Indians offended by Pope comments

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Outraged Indian leaders in Brazil said on Monday they were offended by Pope Benedict's "arrogant and disrespectful" comments that the Roman Catholic Church had purified them and a revival of their religions would be a backward step.

In a speech to Latin American and Caribbean bishops at the end of a visit to Brazil, the Pope said the Church had not imposed itself on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.

Millions of tribal Indians are believed to have died as a result of European colonization backed by the Church since Columbus landed in the Americas in 1492, through slaughter, disease or enslavement.

Many Indians today struggle for survival, stripped of their traditional ways of life and excluded from society.

"It's arrogant and disrespectful to consider our cultural heritage secondary to theirs," said Jecinaldo Satere Mawe, chief coordinator of the Amazon Indian group Coiab.

Several Indian groups sent a letter to the Pope last week asking for his support in defending their ancestral lands and culture. They said the Indians had suffered a "process of genocide" since the first European colonizers had arrived.

Priests blessed conquistadors as they waged war on the indigenous peoples, although some later defended them and many today are the most vociferous allies of Indians.

"The state used the Church to do the dirty work in colonizing the Indians but they already asked forgiveness for that ... so is the Pope taking back the Church's word?" said Dionito Jose de Souza a leader of the Makuxi tribe in northern Roraima state.

Pope John Paul spoke in 1992 of mistakes in the evangelization of native peoples of the Americas.

Pope Benedict not only upset many Indians but also Catholic priests who have joined their struggle, said Sandro Tuxa, who heads the movement of northeastern tribes.

"We repudiate the Pope's comments," Tuxa said. "To say the cultural decimation of our people represents a purification is offensive, and frankly, frightening.

"I think (the Pope) has been poorly advised."

Even the Catholic Church's own Indian advocacy group in Brazil, known as Cimi, distanced itself from the Pope.

"The Pope doesn't understand the reality of the Indians here, his statement was wrong and indefensible," Cimi advisor Father Paulo Suess told Reuters. "I too was upset."




Thoughts?
 
May 15, 2002
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#2
How influential are the Pope's words there? I'm just curious if what he said has a real measurable effect on things in Brazil, or if people are just offended because of ignorance.
 

Hemp

Sicc OG
Sep 5, 2005
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even if the popes words dont influence brazil that much, it still influences a huge number of people in the world, and thats what matters.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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#4
I was just about to post this article, had copied this yesterday from our newspaper..

anyway.. im Indigenous too, also Catholic.. and I also take offense to this, Latin America is beginning to wake up and bonding themselves more to their past, Brazil is the biggest country in the world with Catholics, also one of the biggest poverty stricken countries of the Americas. Of course his words vouch and say a lot to the communities..but in my opinion this is nothing but an NWO sponsored remark.. I dont agree with this, its nice to have your opinion but to blatantly blame Latin Americas' problems on the decline of the Catholic religion is ignorant.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#8
Venezuela’s President Chavez Tells Pope to Apologize to Indigenous Peoples

By: Chris Carlson - Venezuelanalysis.com



Mérida, May 21, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com)— Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez called on Pope Benedict XVI to apologize to the indigenous people of Latin America for his comments on the evangelization of the region. During an official visit to Brazil last week, the Pope defended the evangelization of the indigenous people of Latin America, claiming that Christianity had not been "imposed" upon them. Chavez disputed this in a speech Friday night, calling on his nation to challenge the old capitalist hegemony and create a new society.

In a nationally broadcast speech at an event in Caracas, Chavez criticized the Pope's remarks and asked him to "offer an apology to the people of our America."

"How can the Pope say that the evangelization was not imposed," said Chavez. "Then why did our indigenous people have to flee to the jungles and the mountains?" he asked.

Pope Benedict XVI made the remarks last week during his first visit to Latin America. While in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the Pope claimed that Christianity was not "imposed by a foreign culture" on the pre-Columbian cultures, but rather that these populations where "silently yearning" to be converted to Christianity. The pope went on to criticize the resurgence of pre-Columbian religions in the region, calling them "a regression."

President Chavez called these statements into question, accusing the Pope of ignoring what he called the holocaust of the colonial era, in which millions of people were killed by war, disease and slavery, with the support of the Catholic Church.

"What happened here was much worse than the holocaust in the Second World War, and no one can deny us that reality," said Chavez. "Not even his Holiness can come here to our land and deny the holocaust of the indigenous people."

Chavez referred to the work of the Spanish Dominican priest Bartolome de Las Casas, who denounced the genocide of the indigenous people in the 16th Century.

"Christ came to America much later. He didn't arrive with Columbus, the anti-Christ came with Columbus," stated Chavez, who went on to ask the Pope to apologize for his error.

"Just like the Catholic Church has recognized errors, as a descendant of those martyr Indians that died by the millions, I ask, with all respect, your Holiness, apologize, because here there was a real genocide," Chavez pleaded.

Giving birth to the new, burying the old

Chavez went on to emphasize in his speech on Friday the need to replace the old sociopolitical structures that oppose the construction of a new society. Chavez spoke of the double task of the revolution to give birth to a new counter-hegemony, as well as the necessity of burying the old.

"Those of us who push for the birth of the new, we have a doubly historic task: we are the creators of the new, but also we must be those who bury the old," said Chavez.

Paraphrasing the renowned Italian political theorist Antonio Gramsci, Chavez spoke of the imperial hegemony imposed on South American nations, and the need to challenge this hegemony.

"Real historic crises happen when there is something that is going to die, but has not quite died, and at the same time there is something new being born, but it hasn't quite been born yet," he said.

Chavez referred to the policies of the United States and the use of the School of the Americas to train Latin American armies to torture and kill their own people, using as an example the Caracazo massacre in Venezuela in 1989.

"They turned us against our own people, to massacre them, many times, they used us. The Caracazo was the ultimate tragedy of that history," he said.

Chavez also responded to recent accusations of "politicizing" the military due to the use of the new slogan "socialism, homeland, or death," among military ranks.

"Socialism is a concept that goes much further than a political party, it is a national concept, it is a national project," he said.
 
May 13, 2002
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#12
^^The pope is fucking fag, he can die a slow and painful death for all I care. Fuck that onetime Nazi. One of the problems of this world are people like you who think it's a sin to criticize a "holy man," as if Preachers, Priests, Cardinals, Popes, etc. can do no wrong and are not human and speak to god and all that other nonsense. As if Popes have never used their influences to spread oppression across the globe. Read about the Catholic church and their role with the Nazis and fascism in general and also their long and shameful history in Latin America.
 
Nov 27, 2006
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#13
2-0-Sixx said:
^^The pope is fucking fag, he can die a slow and painful death for all I care. Fuck that onetime Nazi. One of the problems of this world are people like you who think it's a sin to criticize a "holy man," as if Preachers, Priests, Cardinals, Popes, etc. can do no wrong and are not human and speak to god and all that other nonsense. As if Popes have never used their influences to spread oppression across the globe. Read about the Catholic church and their role with the Nazis and fascism in general and also their long and shameful history in Latin America.
I didnt say that you shouldn't critize him, but i feel that you shouldn't talk about him like that, hes a man of the cloth and deserves your respect. I was disappointed when he was chosen to be Pope but i still give him the respect he deserves. You can make your displeasure known without making personal attacks towards him.
 
May 13, 2002
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coondogg26 said:
I didnt say that you shouldn't critize him, but i feel that you shouldn't talk about him like that, hes a man of the cloth and deserves your respect. I was disappointed when he was chosen to be Pope but i still give him the respect he deserves. You can make your displeasure known without making personal attacks towards him.
Why does he deserve my respect? Because he's a "man of the cloth?" What exactly does that mean?

What about the Catholic church and their support for the Nazi's and fascism in general? Did they deserve respect because they are "men of the cloth?"

HERE is a thread you should definitely check out regarding the previous Pope, it's titled "Die worthless Pope, Die!".

A good quote from the thread:

"[H]e has condemned the use of safe sex methods, such as condoms, specifically in Africa where as you know AIDS is killing millions of people.

He was personally involved in the covering up of thousands of child molestation charges; he even promoted the main conspirator to cover up these problems & when the rest of the world, including some members of the church asked the pope to approve a policy that would root out sex offenders he said "no.""



Here is some info regarding the Catholic church and the Nazi's:

http://www.siccness.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126236&highlight=pope

By the way, Pope "Joey the Rat" aka Joseph Ratzinger was a nazi youth.

The Catholic church is corrupt, always has been and always will be. Sorry to inform you comrade.
 
Feb 8, 2006
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2-0-Sixx said:
Why does he deserve my respect? Because he's a "man of the cloth?" What exactly does that mean?

What about the Catholic church and their support for the Nazi's and fascism in general? Did they deserve respect because they are "men of the cloth?"

HERE is a thread you should definitely check out regarding the previous Pope, it's titled "Die worthless Pope, Die!".

A good quote from the thread:

"[H]e has condemned the use of safe sex methods, such as condoms, specifically in Africa where as you know AIDS is killing millions of people.

He was personally involved in the covering up of thousands of child molestation charges; he even promoted the main conspirator to cover up these problems & when the rest of the world, including some members of the church asked the pope to approve a policy that would root out sex offenders he said "no.""



Here is some info regarding the Catholic church and the Nazi's:

http://www.siccness.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126236&highlight=pope

By the way, Pope "Joey the Rat" aka Joseph Ratzinger was a nazi youth.

The Catholic church is corrupt, always has been and always will be. Sorry to inform you comrade.
agree with all you said.

how holy is he really? look at this pic.
 
Nov 27, 2006
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2-0-Sixx said:
Why does he deserve my respect? Because he's a "man of the cloth?" What exactly does that mean?

What about the Catholic church and their support for the Nazi's and fascism in general? Did they deserve respect because they are "men of the cloth?"

HERE is a thread you should definitely check out regarding the previous Pope, it's titled "Die worthless Pope, Die!".

A good quote from the thread:

"[H]e has condemned the use of safe sex methods, such as condoms, specifically in Africa where as you know AIDS is killing millions of people.

He was personally involved in the covering up of thousands of child molestation charges; he even promoted the main conspirator to cover up these problems & when the rest of the world, including some members of the church asked the pope to approve a policy that would root out sex offenders he said "no.""



Here is some info regarding the Catholic church and the Nazi's:

http://www.siccness.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126236&highlight=pope

By the way, Pope "Joey the Rat" aka Joseph Ratzinger was a nazi youth.

The Catholic church is corrupt, always has been and always will be. Sorry to inform you comrade.
You think children had a choice as to whether or not they were going to be Nazi Youths? Children had no idea or comprehension of what Hitler was doing, they were brained washed with German nationalism. What would you have liked the Catholic Church to do during WWII? They had no army, and the Pope condemned Hitlers actions many times, and he ordered convents and monasteries to hide Jews during WWII. Could he have done more, sure, but so could the rest of the world. I already said the Joseph Ratzinger was not my first choice to replace John Paul, who by the way was great man and did great things as Pope, but i feel that he still deserves a certain level of respect due to the fact that he is Pope. You may disagree with me but thats just how i feel, i am loyal to my religion and its leaders.
 
May 13, 2002
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#17
You still have not explained why he deserves my respect. I understand that your "loyal to your religion" or in your words, "brainwashed" like the Nazi youth, but I'd like to know why I should have to respect him (or anyone else for that matter).


coondogg26 said:
You think children had a choice as to whether or not they were going to be Nazi Youths? Children had no idea or comprehension of what Hitler was doing, they were brained washed with German nationalism.
Well he was 14/15 years old when he enrolled, so maybe that is a bit too young. But it's ironic, given the history of the Catholic church and the Nazi's.

What would you have liked the Catholic Church to do during WWII?
Jeez, um, this is a tough question. Hmm, let me think. Um, I don't know...how bout, not support the Nazi's??


They had no army, and the Pope condemned Hitlers actions many times, and he ordered convents and monasteries to hide Jews during WWII.
Condemned publicly but at the same time supported the Nazi's in Germany and the Fascists in Italy, including Mussolini, as well as in Austria (Austrofascism), Slovakia, Croatia (direct role in Yugoslavia's Holocaust in an effort to create a a 'pure' Catholic Croatia), and of course France (Franco), not to mention their support of Fascism in Latin America as well. Seems like there is/was a bit of a trend there...


Could he have done more, sure, but so could the rest of the world.
Again, not supporting them would probably help just a little.


I already said the Joseph Ratzinger was not my first choice to replace John Paul, who by the way was great man and did great things as Pope
Yes, he was great at helping the spread of AIDS in africa and hiding the thousands of child molestation cases, a great man indeed.

but i feel that he still deserves a certain level of respect due to the fact that he is Pope. You may disagree with me but thats just how i feel, i am loyal to my religion and its leaders.
Neither this pope or the last pope deserve my respect and will never receive it, nor should they receive it from anyone else, catholic or not.
 
Nov 27, 2006
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#18
What about his role in the fall of communism? or was that a bad thing too? And your Irish?? damn my brother you've lost your way, your ancestors are turning in their graves.
 
May 13, 2002
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coondogg26 said:
What about his role in the fall of communism? or was that a bad thing too?
Some good, some bad. The USSR wasn't exactly a model for communism, if that's what you're referring to, they were Stalinists.

And your Irish?? damn my brother you've lost your way, your ancestors are turning in their graves.
So because I'm part Irish that automatically means I should be Catholic? Not the best logic there comrade.

http://www.atheist.ie/
"A community where like minded people can share the experience of being non-religious in Ireland."

Look up Eamonn McCann, who was an Atheist (as well as Socialist) for an interesting read.

Then you should read about William Thompson, an Irish Atheist who had influences on Karl Marx.

Oh by the way, in case you're interested - Socialism in Ireland is pretty big too:
http://www.socialistparty.net/ (this party is actually apart of CWI, an international socialist organization that I belong to and has been successful at winning elections for parliament in Ireland (Joe Higgins, another Atheist, and someone who after being elected promised to accept only an average worker's wage and thus only accept half his salary, donating the rest to the party and to progressive campaigns.)

http://www.swp.ie/ (Socialists Workers Party of Ireland)

Socialism in Ireland has a long history (James Connolly: Socialism in Ireland, written in 1908 (James Connolly was a well known Irish socialist leader. All of his work found HERE).

The Emergence of Modern Irish Socialism 1885-87, another good read.
 
Nov 27, 2006
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#20
The are socialists everywhere, but i bet you the vast majority are concentrated in the Dublin area which is slowly losing its Irish identity. If you go out in the countryside you will find that nearly 100% of the population is Catholic. When i went there last summer i saw or heard nothing to suggest socialism has a big influence on politics or daily life. No one is saying you should be Catholic but i bet your ancestors were and you should respect them by not insulting the Pope like you are, by all means disagree with him but the personal attacks are unnecessary.