Mayweather-Mosley: Drug Testing Interview Transcript
Kelly Swanson:
Welcome everybody to today's conference call. I'd just like to introduce the speakers for the call today. First, we have Leonard Ellerbe, Chief Executive Officer of Mayweather Promotions, Richard Schaefer, Chief Executive Officer of Golden Boy Promotions, Travis Tygart, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency and Judd Bernstein, a representative for Shane Mosley. We're going to get right into the call today. It's very exciting and historic, so at this point I'm going to turn it over to Richard Schaefer to open the call and with comments. Richard?
Richard Schaefer:
Thank you, Kelly, and indeed this is historic. I just checked for how many people we have on the line, and I think we are setting a record here; over 200 people have called in to this call. I've never had that kind of volume. It's amazing.
I think that shows how historic this really is, the first time in the history that an athlete from any U.S. professional sport has demanded and reached out to the United States Anti-Doping Agency, USADA, to introduce the world to anti-doping code, complying to drug testing, setting both to boxing and sport precedence.
The program is an unannounced trend and no advance notice sent to collection of the athlete's blood and urine prior to and after the fight so that all banned substances, some of which do not show up in urine alone, are tested thoroughly with both athletes subject to testing program leading up to, as well as after the fight.
This really is a first, and I know that Floyd Mayweather really took the lead on that. He believes strongly that it is time for boxing to introduce the United States Anti-Doping Agency Olympic-style drug testing to the sport of boxing, and I applaud him for that. It is a pleasure for me now to introduce to you, Chief Executive Officer of Mayweather Promotions, Leonard Ellerbe
Leonard Ellerbe:
I'm truly excited with Floyd being the face of boxing to step out front and to be a part of history. Also, I would like to commend Shane Mosley for stepping up to the plate to accepting this and also being part of history.
This is truly a historic moment, and I think that just yesterday, as evidenced by The New York Athletic Commission, stepping up to the plate and just having dialogue to mentioning that this would be a part of history that they are considering doing this, and with Floyd and Shane being out front with doing this, this is truly historic.
Obviously, working with USADA and Golden Boy Promotions, like I said, with Floyd being out front, this is truly going to be something that I think all of the commissions across the United States will eventually get on board with this, and it will be great for the sport of boxing.
Schaefer:
There is always a moment in time in any sport, in anything in life, which triggers certain events, and it is this fight here between Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Shane Mosley, which is taking place on May 1, 2010 at the MGM Grand Garden in Las Vegas, and will be available on HBO Pay-Per-View®.
This is a mega-event. This is one of the biggest events we have ever seen in the sport of boxing and if this fight, this mega-event, is a trigger to introduce Olympic-style drug testing to the sport of boxing then I think not only have we delivered a great fight to the public, but we really have helped protect athletes and make it a level playing field.
The man which really took charge and has been on the forefront for many years and been a pioneer, as well, in implementing and introducing these advanced testing formulas and testing procedures is the Chief Executive Officer of The United States Anti-Doping Agency, USADA, Travis Tygart. It's really a pleasure and an honor for me now to introduce to all of you, Travis T. Tygart. Please, Travis.
Travis T. Tygart:
Looking back over the past several years, I think the U.S. has seen a dramatic transformation in the anti-doping efforts in sports. First, in late 2000, almost ten years ago now, the United States Olympic Committee, with its athletes, courageously decided to fully externalize its anti-doping program. A couple years after that, Congress recognized the United States Anti-Doping Agency as the independent anti-doping agency for Olympic and Paralympic sport in the U.S.
This externalization and independence was significant, because no longer did you have the entities that were promoting Olympic sport in the U.S. also attempting to police it. This independent model has been confirmed again and again, really as the gold standard in fully protecting clean athletes rights to compete on a level, safe, and drug-free playing field, and also the best way to preserve the inherent value of sport in this country.
Our program, obviously, has evolved and hopefully will always evolve since that time and ongoing, but now the world sport entities and governments of the world have united in this fight against doping by agreeing to the world anti-doping code.
Today, more than 400 individual sport bodies from around the world, over 125 governments have signed on to follow the world anti-doping program. That program includes testing for a full menu of prohibited substances and methods. It provides for the best protocols for the collection of samples to ensure maximum comfort of athletes, while also insuring the integrity of the sample collected.
There is a system of accredited laboratories, so that only the best in specific sport accredited labs are analyzing samples using the most advanced techniques and methods. And, of course, there are adequate sanctions to deter tempted cheaters and also to punish those who will trample the rights of other competitors by cheating with these dangerous drugs.
You know, sport in America, including professional boxing, has always been and should always be more than just entertainment. Sport is a vehicle by which our communities come together and our fans put hopes and dreams on our athlete's performances.
Like it or not, our athletes are role models. Athletes inspire this country's youth. They inspire them to be just like their sport's heroes. And they frankly inspire fans of all ages. Their performances confirm that hard work, dedication, and playing by the rules will lead to success and that there are no shortcuts to this success.
That's why I think today is another watershed moment in the advancement of anti-doping efforts that's happened over the past several years. For the first time, you have professional athletes in the sport of boxing approaching us to implement an anti-doping program, and those athletes are now fully enrolled in this program. I think similar to the courageous decisions of the Olympic athletes back in the late 90's and of the United States Olympic Committee to externalize its program, these athletes are courageous in their position and their desire to be held to the most stringent anti-doping program to protect their right to compete clean.
At this point, both athletes have agreed to USADA's testing protocols, including both blood and urine testing, which is unannounced, which is anywhere and anytime. Our staff has met with each athlete in their camps to explain the procedures and the process, and each athlete has submitted their whereabouts information so that they can be located for this unannounced blood and urine testing.
There is no limit to the number of tests that we can complete on these boxers. Of course, those will be distributed among the boxers in a fair manner. Any positive tests will be published following a thorough legal process provided under our protocols, and, of course, if one or more of the boxers commits an anti-doping rule violation, WADA code penalties will be put in place.
In summary, I think today is an important day for clean athletes everywhere. USADA has always been here as the protector of clean athletes. We're their representatives, and we're honored to be a part of this effort to help further advance the rights of clean athletes to participate on a safe and level playing field. Thank you.
Q:
Can you talk about how this developed, when the camps came to you, and what the span of drugs that can be tested will be?
Tygart:
Yeah and I'll defer as well to Richard if he wants to fill in some of the blanks about when they came to us. But you know, this really started, I guess, back the end of last year when Floyd's camp and Golden Boy approached us to learn more about our program. So, it really continued from discussions at that point and then once this fight was agreed to, we were brought in and recent agreement on what the program was going to look like.
I guess the second part of your question; this is our program. They are held to the same standard that all Olympic athletes around the world are being held to, which is the WADA code standard, so as I mentioned previously, they are in our out of competition testing pool. They're providing us their whereabouts. They're subject to the same list of prohibited substances that the World Anti-Doping Agency propagates every year. So, the 2010 WADA list of prohibited substances and methods is what is applying to these athletes and will be tested for.
Q:
Leonard, can you talk about your role in this?
Ellerbe:
Obviously, with Floyd being the face of boxing, this is something that he has wanted to put forth the effort to clean up the sport of boxing. Obviously, by him being the face, every fight from this point on that anybody that steps in the ring with him are going to be subjected to this. This is great. Obviously, working with USADA, with them being the gold standard for these testing procedures, this can do nothing but benefit the sport of boxing.
Q:
I just wanted to get your interpretation. I know this originally started with the Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao negotiations, and ultimately looking at this from a distance, what did you think of Manny Pacquiao's stance in not wanting to get any closer than 24 days before the fight for a blood test? Secondly, if one of these guys test positive, what the penalty be that they would be subject to?
Tygart:
Today this is about clean athletes and their rights to compete on a level playing field. Whether you're the best boxer in the world or the second best boxer or an up and comer, if you're clean, you have no reason not to be part of this type of program. In fact, you demand it, and we see thousands of athletes in the U.S. and many more millions around the world voluntarily participating in this type of program.
And, like Floyd Mayweather, we've had athletes coming to us to protect their fundamental right to participate according to the rules of their sport. And, why should any athlete have to be forced to endanger their own health, potentially their lives in a combat sport like boxing, or compromise their values by being forced to cheat with performance enhancing drugs, because you know their sport has allowed cheating to take over the culture.
So, this today is about clean athletes, and I think it's as simple as that, Lance. The sanctions is WADA code sanctions, so there is a two-year penalty, suspension that will be put in place and disqualification in advance of this fight if a boxer tests positive.
Q:
Leonard, steroids have been around for a pretty long time and blood testing has been around for a few years. I think the question a lot of people have regarding your interest and Floyd's interest in testing is why now?
Ellerbe:
Why now or why not now? Things change. Ten years ago the Internet wasn't around. I can't say enough with Floyd being out front of this, I think with him and Shane both agreeing to this, it's great for the sport. With them setting the example, I think that all the commissions across the United States will soon follow suit, and with Floyd and Shane stepping out front and saying that they are two clean athletes and this is a clean sport, it's great for the sport of boxing.
Q:
What people want to know is would we be having this conference call, this conversation, if the name of Manny Pacquiao wasn't floating as Floyd's possible opponent?
Ellerbe:
You most certainly would. This is something, obviously Floyd has been a clean athlete from day one and his position on this is that he feels as though when he's competing and all the other boxers are competing, it's no more than fair to have a level playing field and obviously this is something that he is taking a position on, and he's very serious about this.
Tygart:
I will just add, this is Travis. I'm sorry to interrupt. Look, it takes a lot of courage when your sport is not doing everything possible to protect your right. It takes an awful lot of courage, and we've seen in the past where athletes who spoke out and demanded things to help protect their fundamental rights, they were cast aside.
I think it's really unfortunate that athletes don't have more of a voice when it comes to this issue, but I think what you've seen over the past several years is given the independent model, athletes now know they come to the World Anti-Doping Agency and to the USADA's of the world and countries around the world and have a protector who is going to say, "Look, we're here to protect your right and we will fight that fight with you if you're willing to subject yourself to our testing."
Q:
A lot of people have said on the other side that urine testing is the same as blood testing. You hear that line a lot. Can you just break down in simple possible terms what the differences are? What blood testing tests for that urine testing does not?
Tygart:
There are at least four potent performance enhancing drugs that are not detected in urine, including human growth hormone, HBT, which is a mild blood transfusion, HBOC, which is synthetic hemoglobin, and then the Passport Program.
I guess just to further emphasize that, it is just simply false to say that urine can detect everything that you would be concerned about. It can't. You have to do blood. There is no other reason we would be doing blood. If we didn't have to do blood to have an effective program, why would we do it? It makes absolutely no sense.
Q:
One thing I wondered as you know, Shane's name was linked to the BALCO case as it went on, and there is still some ongoing back and forth in the media and the courts over that. I wondered from USADA's point of view, is there any sort of investigation going on regarding Shane and BALCO?
Tygart:
Obviously, we considered that thoroughly, his alleged involvement with BALCO. We thought long and hard about it and its impact on us whether we could be a part of this effort. At the end of the day, we asked ourselves, "What would clean athletes want us to do?"
From that perspective, clean athletes in this sport and in this event have asked for us to be involved, and how could we not be here for them if that's what they wanted, because that's who we are. We're here for them, and so at this point, we are comfortable running this program even given those allegations were out there. Let me be clear, if he did cheat and he does again, he will be caught and exposed in our program. Remember, he's never been under our jurisdiction until now, and he's voluntarily subjected himself to our jurisdiction.
You know, back in '03 with the BALCO allegations, if he was under our jurisdiction, we would have aggressively pursued that evidence and brought justice based on the evidence if it proved intentional doping, just like we did on the athletes that fell under our jurisdiction where the evidence proved they intentionally doped.
I guess you also have to remember that the professional boxing entities that had jurisdiction over him at the time did not bring any discipline on those allegations or any others. And, we obviously, firmly believe that all athletes are entitled to a full legal process prior to being accused of cheating in their sport. And, of course, ours includes independent arbitrators and decision makers outside of our own entity.
Last point that I think is important: Remember if those allegations were ever proven to be true, and he was sanctioned, he would have certainly served his time at this point and been eligible to compete just like any of the other BALCO athletes who were disciplined at the time.
Judd Bernstein:
Let me just say something. I want it to be clear that Shane would not be doing this, and I think Travis will tell you, it is a very rigorous, he's already said, it is a very rigorous program. Shane would not be doing this if there were any doubt in his mind that he's a clean athlete.
We're talking about something that happened six years ago, and to be clear, Shane has never denied right from the start that he made a mistake with respect to trusting Victor Conte, but let's not forget that Shane took a lie detector test that he did not know what he was taking, and he's standing up by suing Conte over the issue.
So, I want to be clear; one, Shane is doing this and Floyd's to be congratulated for really being at the forefront here, but Shane didn't hesitate for a moment to do this, because he knows he's a clean athlete, and what happened six years ago was an unfortunate, he was mislead, and that will be shown when we're done with this lawsuit against Conte.
Q:
Travis, I wanted to just return to one of the points that you touched on briefly there as far as enforcing any bans go, and maybe we could talk in the general case about individual athletes coming to USADA as opposed to sports organizations because it seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that enforcing a ban might be kind of tough in a sport, say like boxing, where an athlete might be moving around the country and the world competing in events that are overseen by different sports organizations. It seems a little bit less centralized than some of the other sports that USADA generally works with, so how could a ban be enforced hypothetically when those organizers are maybe not signatories to USADA?
Tygart:
Yeah. That would end up, and not knowing all of the different entities out there that are sanctioning boxing, it's tough to give a simple answer, but it ultimately will come to the sanctioning bodies to recognize or not the sanction. And, it's really no different than what we experienced with the professional athletes that play in the Olympic Games where in the past we've had two baseball players who tested positive under our regime, who were kicked out of the Olympics, but that sanction wasn't recognized by the entities that put on baseball.
Same with hockey; we would, obviously, encourage and part of this effort, I think, as well will be to follow-up with the state commissions and help them better understand the importance of good, sound programs and policies. One component of that is recognizing sanctions that arise from WADA code compliant programs.
So, short answer is of those that are WADA code compliant or recognize them, the sanction will apply. If they don't, we have no direct control; neither does WADA or the International Olympic Committee or The United States Olympic Committee to force them to recognize it.
Q:
I was wondering given that so much of this will rely on establishing a baseline, is there time for credible testing for Mayweather and Mosley given that there really isn't an existing baseline?
Tygart:
We certainly considered whether there was enough time to implement a program that we felt could be effective, and we're comfortable in the remaining months that we'll be able to do that, and that it will be effective. Given the intensity of the testing and the thoroughness of the testing, we're comfortable.
Keep in mind; baseline is just one aspect of our program. We also specifically detect, so base lining is not necessary if you're trying to detect individual administration of steroids. Obviously, we'd prefer to have them in the program for a longer period of time prior to the fight, but again, we got comfortable because we were asked by an athlete who desired the most astringent program to be put in place, and we weren't going to back away from helping that athlete put it in place.
I think it's also important to remember this is all brand new for both of these fighters, and while our program over the years has evolved, these guys really for the first time in a really quick period of time are agreeing to and subjecting themselves to a lot of process and a lot of protocols that they're getting familiar with and have agreed to follow.
Q:
Has testing already begun and if so, when?
Tygart:
Yeah. We did education with both fighters last weekend, and they've provided their whereabouts information to us so we know where to find them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and they have an obligation to update that as the weeks progress and they're subject to testing, both blood and urine, no advance notice, at any time, all the way up until and after the fight.
Q:
Just a quick question for you. I kind of had the same question, but also just going forward I'm wondering since this clearly kind of not so subtly shows that a big name, maybe the biggest name in the sport, did not feel protected by his own sport. I was curious if you've kind of had any discourse or gotten any blowback from either sanctioning bodies or people involved with this sport who feel like you might be kind of making them look bad or maybe they're saying, "Hey, how can we expand this?"
Tygart:
I think no. Our interests are the same, I think, as theirs, and we're looking forward to working closely with them. Our interests, I think, are the same, to have drug free, safe, boxing which people can believe in, so we're looking forward to working directly with them and we consider them if they're truly interested in having clean sport, they will be partners right along with us in this effort.
Q:
I was just wondering will the samples, any samples that you collect, will they be stored for six, eight years down the road for additional testing as new methods become available similar to the way they do at the Olympic level?
Tygart:
Great question and they will be. It's part of our program, part of the WADA code, and these boxers have agreed to subject themselves to it.
Q:
So, you could pass down the road potentially then as well?
Tygart:
Yes:
Q:
Do you know how many tests we're talking between now and the fight? More than ten? More than 20? Could you give a ballpark figure?
Tygart:
You know, we don't and only because we obviously internally have a number that we think will provide the maximum effectiveness to deter and to detect, but we don't provide that because obviously athletes that wanted to circumvent if they knew how many tests or how to guess of how many tests could do things that might allow them to cheat and get away with it. So, we don't disclose that. Let me just say our job in the period of time leading up to this fight, do the best we can do to ensure both athletes are clean and we're going to do that.
Q:
My question is if there is a limit to how many tests you will do, because obviously it's going to be cost ineffective if it gets adopted by the athletic commissions.
Tygart:
There is no limit in the number of tests, and again, sort of the point I just made, you can't put a maximum. If athletes thought they were only going to be tested three times or five times in a two month period, once that fifth test or second test came, they could adjust their behavior and cheap potentially. So, we don't say that.
From a cost standpoint, we're comfortable that we'll have the resources dedicated to this to make it effective. I think there was a lot of suggestion in the past in the sport of boxing that the funds weren't there. I think this shows that it is affordable to do it at the right level, and my point has always been, they can't afford not to do it.
And, so, if you truly want to preserve the integrity of the sport, and you want fans to see what the rules are supposed to provide for, you can't afford not to do this.
Q:
A question is for Mr. Ellerbe. You said that the New York Athletic Commission is planning to get on board. Have you approached California Athletic Commission or maybe Nevada where most fights take place?
Ellerbe:
Well, from my understanding, I got some information that Melvina Lathan from the New York State Athletic Commission, this is something that they're considering and my interpretation from this; I think eventually all the commissions across the United States will eventually adopt it. It's never too late for something good. With both guys stepping up and saying that they're clean athletes, this is great for the sport. For guys volunteering for more strenuous testing, how can you go wrong with that?
Q:
Travis, in the event of a positive test, what would be the full legal process that you referred to? What would that consist of and how long would it take before public disclosure?
Tygart:
It's our protocols that apply for our Olympic athletes, but the short is; there's the opportunity for a B-sample analysis, assuming that confirms, there is an independent review. Essentially a grand jury makes the threshold determination or recommendation rather to us whether there is sufficient evidence to go forward.
If either one of the boxers want to challenge that positive test, they have the opportunity to do that in front of a panel of independent arbitrators, AAA, which is American Arbitration Association, and CAS, which is Court of Arbitration for Sport, and all that will be done if a positive arises prior to the fight, done and decision out prior to the fight occurring.
Q:
And would the public be specifically told of this?
Tygart:
Yes and it will be publicly announced.
Q:
And would this arbitration proceeding be an adversarial proceeding between USADA on the one side and the fighter on the other?
Tygart:
It very well could be. From our perspective, it's the search for the truth, but if we're convinced that evidence proves rule violations then we will obviously be there encouraging the arbitrators to enforce the discipline that the other fighter without the positive test is entitled to.
Q:
My question is actually for Richard Schaefer. Richard, I just want to get Golden Boy's official stance on drug testing. Top Rank has offered the claim that whatever is good for the commission is good for them. I just want to get Golden Boy's official stance on the subject.
Schaefer:
Well, I think, as I said before, it takes a certain event, a certain trigger, to better things and I think you have here with this fight, one of the biggest fights ever and if this is the trigger to introduce the gold standard of drug testing to the sport of boxing, then, of course, we are all for it.
I want to point out as well, we've been talking about other sports, which are already using drug testing, be it cycling, be it the Olympics, basketball, baseball, and so on, this here is not hitting a ball or cycling up a hill, this is two guys standing in the middle of the ring, hitting each other in the head. I think they deserve to have the highest level of protection. If the highest level of protection is to introduce Olympic style and random drug testing, the gold standard of drug testing to the sport of boxing, then how could we not be for that?
Q:
Will Golden Boy demand this for their major events here on out or will you just leave it up to the fighter, like say if Bernard Hopkins decides he wants it for his fights, will it be a case by case basis?
Schaefer:
Well, I think what it is I hope that this is going to be the trigger. The issue is out there that the Athletic Commission just like the New York Commission made comments and statements a couple of days ago, which Leonard referred to that their medical boards are going to look into that and hopefully adapt these rules and regulations for all of boxing and we would certainly endorse that.
Thank you all for participating in this historic call. By the way, this is the first of a series of media calls, which we will do on a weekly basis with up-to-date topics and participants. This is really shaping up on early indications as truly a mega, mega, mega event, and we are all excited to be looking forward to May 1 and we'll look forward to seeing you all there and appreciate your interest in the fight, and more importantly, your interest and support in introducing these kind of tests and procedures to the sport of boxing.
END OF CALL
