BEHEADING....WHO'S TO BLAME?

FunK-3-FivE · Oct 2, 2004

Nitro the Guru said:

1, 2 and 3..... my answer is Team America: World Police.
BTW sanctions did not effect Saddam, thats why Saddam didn't cooperate anyways. The sanctions did MUCH more harm to the Iraqi civilians than any government official.

Lets flip the script. Pretend that Iraq is the major world power and we aren't. Iraq insists that we have WMDs and may plan on using them on Iraq(which is false), they order Bush to cooperate with them. Bush decides not to negotiate. So in turn Iraq places UN sanctions on us, which causes civilians of all ages to starve, of course people are going to be mad when their children starve to death. Meanwhile Bush is not effected by these sanctions at all, so he continues to not cooperate. Iraq is gettin really angry, the ignorant citizens of Iraq insist that the US be invaded. So now on top of seeing your people starve, you see bombs goin off everywhere, and Iraqi troops occupying your city, ordering you around, etc.

Saddam invading Iran? Bush invaded Afghanistan.
Saddam invading Kuwait? Bush invaded Iraq.
Saddam killing his own people? Bush has killed more.
What about Saddam living in a palace with a zoo while civilians had no drinking water? What about Bush not givin a fuck about the homeless, or working class?

Think Logic.

Ethereal · Oct 7, 2004

2-0-Sixx said:

I never said all you do is criticize Bush; I'm saying that when it comes to world/u.s. politics all you are is a critic. I don't know what you do on your spare time - I am talking about what goes on in here.

2-0-Sixx said:

I said you have made no mention on how we should have, or could have done things. Your response is that you mentioned how: 1. We shouldn't have invaded Iraq, and 2. We should have handeled things differently. It is you who is truely unbelieveable. Especially if you think that is saying how we should have handeled things. Those responses are laughable.

2-0-Sixx said:

You have simply waisted your own time. Don't place the blame on me.

J-Funk said:

I would blame Bush for invading Iran and Kuwait, causing these sanctions to be placed. Once I found out that all he had to do was leave office and the sanctions would be lifted, I would make my own attempt at removing him.

J-Funk said:

I do think logic, which is why I dislike Bush, and think they should both suffer.

miggidy · Oct 7, 2004

Psycho Logic said:

Then the cat being beheaded is third....

But then again, ignorance is the source of it all....

2-0-Sixx · Oct 7, 2004

I'm like so glad we invaded Iraq, nitro.

Friday, October 08, 2004

Iraq in need of funding for sewage, water infrastructure

By Agence France Presse (AFP)

BAGHDAD: (AFP) - Iraq only has 10 percent of the money needed over the next six years to fix its sewerage and drinking water systems, a dilemma worsened by a US proposal to shift two billion dollars earmarked for the sector to security, the public works minister said on Thursday.

Nasreen Barwari was speaking as Iraqi government officials prepared to fly cap-in-hand to Tokyo next week for an international donors' conference.

"It is very critical that grants get expanded for the sector," the young female minister told a news conference in Baghdad.

The US government promised to pump 18.4 billion dollars (15 billion euros) into reconstruction projects in Iraq after last year's invasion.

But a month ago it revealed a plan to shift some of this cash into beefing up the country's security forces in response to a violent insurgency there.

Barwari said this move would affect her ministry of municipalities and public works the most, with two billion dollars of four billion initially promised set to be siphoned off.

As a result, Iraq's government would present an updated list of priority areas for funding at the two-day donor gathering in Japan from October 13, placing "water, sanitation and electricity at the top," the minister said.

Donor countries, aid agencies and World Bank officials are due to meet in the Japanese capital to discuss Iraqi reconstruction, which has floundered amid the deteriorating security situation and left many Iraqis still without basic services such as water and electricity.

The interim government was unhappy that pledges made last year at a similar gathering in Madrid have largely failed to materialize. More than 90 percent of the country's cities have no decent sewerage system, while only two thirds of Iraqis have access to safe drinking water, Barwari told reporters.

"Our vision is to provide 100 percent coverage for water and hopefully 50 percent at least coverage for sanitation and sewage within the coming five to six years," the minister said.

To achieve this goal, "we are talking about 18 to 20 billion dollars that we need, which means an annual budget of four to five billion dollars," she said.

At present her ministry only received 200 million dollars from the interim government's budget and a further 300 million dollars from donor countries and other external funds annually.

That is "10 percent of what we need as an investment," Barwari said.

In Tokyo, Iraqi officials would also discuss with ways to reduce the country's multi-billion-dollar foreign debt burden and reiterate that they were taking the decisions after the US-led occupation handed over power in June.

"We will be re-enforcing that the Iraqi government is now in control, is running the country," she said.

Despite the shortage of funding, Barwari was upbeat about the number of jobs her ministry had generated and would continue to create in the coming three months as projects to fix sewerage systems and improve water distribution facilities come on line.

One initiative had already created 80,000 jobs, she said.

"Our ministry's other activities of reconstruction and repair is expected to offer around 500,000 jobs by the end of the year," she continued, adding that this target was 60-percent reached.

One way to plug the funding gap was to encourage Iraq's private sector to invest in the country's infrastructure, she added.

Ethereal · Oct 8, 2004

Are you crazy, 2-0-Sixx, we should have let them be!

CATTLE PRODS, GANG RAPE AND WORSE

Kubba’s money insulated his family from mayhem, but it did not shield him from witnessing the almost casual slaughter of his people. Last week he recalled a “scene that haunts me still.” Kubba was driving his Mercedes through Basra’s Saad Square when he came upon some 600 men who had been detained while police checked their IDs. According to Kubba, “Chemical Ali” Hassan al-Majid, Saddam’s half brother and the tyrant of southern Iraq, stopped and inquired, “No IDs? Just shoot them all.” Kubba watched as “they shot over 600 people in front of me.”

The fates of thousands of others are buried in Saddam’s numerous prisons. One of the most notorious was the IIS prison at Haakimiya, near a bustling commercial area in downtown Baghdad. A nondescript five-story building notable only by the extra barbed wire on the roof, the Haakimiya Prison is actually 10 stories. Belowground are interrogation cells where unspeakable horrors were committed. NEWSWEEK’s Liu, prowling the dank and empty halls, ran into a former inmate, Mohsen Mutar Ulga, 34, who was searching for documents about his cousin, executed under Saddam. Ulga said he was sentenced to 12 years in jail for belonging to an armed religious group called “the revenge movement for Sadr,” referring to a martyred Shiite cleric. He had been arrested with 19 others; the lucky ones were executed right away. The rest were tortured with electric cattle prods and forced to watch the prison guards gang-rape their wives and sisters. Some were fed into a machine that looked like a giant meat cutter. “People’s bodies were cut into tiny pieces and thrown into the Tigris River,” said Ulga.

Ulga and the reporter silently walked through the darkened cells at Haakimiya, which was surprisingly clean, except for the graffiti on the walls. GOD I ASK YOUR MERCY, scratched one prisoner who’d marked 42 days on the walls. SAVE ME, MARY, implored another, presumably a Christian. IN MEMORY OF LUAY AND ABBAS WHO WERE TORTURED, read another.

Quietly, Ulga began to talk again. He had first been imprisoned in the notorious Abu Ghurayb jail outside Baghdad. But when the United States attacked Afghanistan in the fall of 2001, he and the other prisoners were taken to an even worse prison in Ramadi. There, he lived with 28 other detainees in a nine-meter-square cell, dividing up 1.5 kilos of rice and porridge a day. “It was so cramped we couldn’t sleep on our backs, we had to sleep on our sides, like spoons. And they brought us polluted water to drink, so we all had diarrhea.” Ulga was released last fall during Saddam’s surprise general amnesty. “Most people don’t know that before the amnesty, they executed 450 prisoners so they would never go free,” said Ulga.

Ethereal · Oct 8, 2004

Economic turmoil... Infastructure destroyed?

In 2000 Saddam was ranked the 55th richest man in the world, worth an estimated $7 Billion. So while the U.S. demanded his resignation (for invading two countries killing millions), he sat in his palace with more money than he could spend, while his people (children) died in the streets.

Seven billion fucking dollars. You could have Aquafina water pumping out of shower heads with that kind of money. But no. Lets kick him out of Kuwait, wave our finger at him, and say: "Saddam, now don't you go invading and gassing other countries again, we're serious this time!".

2-0-Sixx · Oct 8, 2004

That’s cute Nitro. Placing the blame not on the country who was responsible for the sanctions and the invasion, but the leader of the third world country.

You know I can post 100 articles just like yours but from mothers and fathers who lost their loved ones do to an unjust amerikan invasion. But I’m not going to do that.

You can continue blindly defending the actions of amerikkka, somehow trying to make our actions noble and just. But the simple fact Nitro is they were not noble. We didn’t invade because Saddam was “evil”; we didn’t place sanctions because we wanted to help the Iraqi people. There were no dignified reasons at all. If that were the case, amerikkka would intervene in Africa. Maybe BushCo. would spend billions of their own money and help the people in need (lol). Not only were the intentions of amerikkka as far away from noble as possible, it was completely illegal.

1) Resolution 678 - authorized force against Iraq to eject it from Kuwait and restore peace to the area.

2) Resolution 687 - set out the ceasefire conditions after GW1. Imposed obligations on Iraq to destroy WMDs it had. This resolution suspends 678, but does not remove the authority of resolution 678.

3) A material breach of 687 - REQUIRING THERE TO BE A MATERIAL BREACH OF THE CONDITION 'ELIMINATE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION' - revives the authority of 678 to use force.

4) Resolution 1441 - determined that Iraq was in material breach of 687
because it had not complied with its obligations to disarm. The resolution gave Saddam Hussein a final opportunity to comply with the demand to disarm.

5) Saddam caves in and allows weapons inspectors in to determine if he is in fact in breach of 687.

6) The US and UK override the UN and invade after France vetos a second resolution.

The UN was thus unable to determine if Saddam had in fact violated the relevant UN resolutions.

But it’s ok because we are amerika and Saddam was a bad evildoer.

45Yr Old Virgin · Oct 11, 2004

i blame the knife companies

WestRumble · Oct 11, 2004

Nitro the Guru said:

LMFAO!!!! exactly nitro. The UN resolutions wasnt working, thats why we had to invade. the world is a better place with him out of power. the ppl of Iraq are getting their freedom and democracy that they truly deserve. And now Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists like it was under the saddam regime.

L Mac-a-docious · Oct 11, 2004

WestRumble said:

The FNC propaganda is getting thick.

WestRumble · Oct 11, 2004

nefar559 said:

neither is war? if you dont go into war ppl like saddam take over lil countries like Kuwait. if you dont go into war ppl like hitler rule the world. if you dont go into war your gonna be one sorry ass sucker.

L Mac-a-docious · Oct 11, 2004

WestRumble said:

If you do go to war people like Bush/Cheney take over little countries like Iraq, install puppet regimes, and add to the decay in an already war torn region...if you want to find the new and improved version of Hitler you don't have to look far.

WestRumble · Oct 11, 2004

I guess you could say that if saddam wasnt so corrupt himself.

nefar559 · Oct 11, 2004

WestRumble said:

stop listening to Bush's PR team..... this is coming from someone who claims to be a supporter of United Farm Workers.

WestRumble · Oct 11, 2004

so you dont think war is never necessary? you gotta be kidding. How you think the Aztecs ruled so much of Mexico by kindness?

nefar559 · Oct 11, 2004

WestRumble said:

in certian cases war is necessary, but this Iraq war wasn't.
First the case was that Saddam wasn't giving up his weapons of WMD. Bush and Powell went to UN to prove there point. Remmber Powell and his little ariel maps? turned out not to be true.

the latest report on iraq shows that Saddam was disarmed during the 90s, whicl was because of the inspections and bombings, and he never had WMDs since then.

Saddam wasnt going to rule the world, 10years of sanctions, millions of people people dead becuase of that, one of the poorest countries, Saddam had no world domination plan..lol.

But you need to read up more on UFW, and Cesear Chavez, Dolores Huerta, Martin Luther King. Gandhi ..... btw I dont look at the Aztecs for my current political thoughts...lol

BEHEADING....WHO'S TO BLAME?

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