@Vince just curious about something you said. You said it takes around ten minutes to do the dump correct? Does that dump consist of each part simply being looped for 8 or 4 measures or does it consist of parts that are the total length of the song?
I've already stated my opinion and it's an opinion that has solidified itself over about 20 years of doing that kind of work. To date, you are the only person I've ever seen who suggests tracking out everything you do is a good idea and not a waste of time. I've also never had a situation where it was critical that I had a beat tracked out and on my person because of some 'spur of the moment' occurance.
TIME=MONEY is an opinion that has not solidified itself for about 20 years. It's actually older...lol. Anyway I don't track out EVERYTHING I do. Do I track out the stuff I feel is worthy to go on? Yes. The stuff I feel sounds good enough for me? Yep. The stuff I feel is good enough for others? YES. You are overlooking one key area and that is the area of DATA LOSS which is why I say to back the music up as much as possible. So you've never kept beats on your computer and sold them because such and such got at you at the last minute?
It's okay that you have a different opinion. When I first started out, I would've agreed with you.
You being in the game longer than I have has nothing to do with my current views on the situation. I can say right now that articles I've read by THE BIG O and Roger Nichols disagree with your view 100% IF IT'S WORTH IT TO YOU BACK IT UP.
The 'make 50 beats, sell 25' scenario is an example that is probably a little on the generous side for most of these cats. You know this. As far as the logic, you said it yourself... "YES you could charge by the hour, multi track each instrument, and make some extra dough". Are you implying that telling these newbies to get their money is a bad idea?
No I'm not implying that telling them to get their loot is a bad idea. Thats what I'm encouraging. However consider the numbers you tossed out. 10 MINUTES TO DUMP A TRACK PLUS THE TIME IT TAKES TO CATCH THE LEVELS. I CAN'T SEE THE TOTAL TIME EXCEEDING AN HOUR. PEOPLE ARE CHARGING $15-$500 AN HOUR. SOME SPOTS WOULDN'T EVEN CHARGE YOU THE CATCHING LEVELS TIME (SOME CONSIDER IT "SET UP"). SO HOW MUCH LOOT ARE WE TALKING HERE?
And I'm sure you've dealt with plenty of clients who know exactly what they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything.
And I'm positive you've run into the same type of clients. Those who know exactlyw hat they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything. It works both ways pimpin.
Did you actually just suggest that cut&paste'ing 8 bar loops is not 'arranging'? That's funny.
I don't see how you could pull that from my statement. Either you're blind, stupid or a tad of both...However for clarification purposes let's examine what I said:
Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
When I speak of arranging I'm making reference to the song structure and how it's mapped out. If you simply have all the tracks looped for 8 and no song structure how is that arranging? Where is the intro, verse, hook, bridge, tempo change etc? You have NONE which is why I said you're not dealing with it. All you have is 8 bars worth of music. Yes you can have chorus sounds or chorus notes playing but is the song arranged? NOPE. It's a wall of sound with everything playing at once. Do you understand now?
By "sample cd's" are you referring to 'beat cd's' or 'production samplers'? This question is almost too stupid to answer but I'll do it anyway. People who make beats generally do quick stereo mixes for the purpose of compiling them onto 'beat' or 'production sampler' cd's. These are used as an easy means to 'demo' their work.
I understand this but thats not the question I'm asking. Why are these "a list" producers doing beat cd's to begin with? If they are "a-list" they shouldn't be making beat cd's right? They have clients and listening parties and charge just to listen am I correct?
Now let me ask you a stupid question... Do you do that with your pre-made beats or do you load up the sequences & sounds to each beat you want to demo? Or do you load up your tracked out versions one-by-one?
Actually it's not a stupid question and I think I shed some light about it in the previous post (or the one before it). I can do it several ways. I can keep it in the keyboards, load it up and go stereo out. At that point I have to mute and unmute from the keyboard (because I don't structure the song from teh keyboard). Will it sound ok? Yes. Will it sound as good as everything being tracked at unity gain and running through its own track/channel? No. I can also load the tracked out versions (if it was tracked out).
To clarify this for you, I said that I'm past the point where I have to send beat cd's to people. I don't need to make websites to promote my work nor do I need to mail out beat cd's to every aspiring artist that wants one. I'm at the point where I have people waiting in line to work with me and who know they want atleast x number of beats before even hearing anything.
why are these a list producers doing it? How do you feel about EMI mailing out beat cd's? You are at the point of...naw forget it. That'll only open up another can of worms.
Now, there are certain artists who have broke a lot of bread with me. They're big budgeted clients and aggressively promoted by their labels. Because of that, I do let a select few hold beat cd's when they ask. Which is by choice, not necessity.
Clean it up guy.....
It does when you're placing a dollar amount on it. If you've ever sold a beat, you've put a price on your music. In the real world if you can't get a person to buy one of your beats for $5 million then no, your beats are not worth $5 million.
Yes i've sold music and put a price on it but at the end of the day I can't say if it was worth more or less. I see a difference between worth and what it was sold for. In the real world you're beats WOULD be worth $5 million if that were your starting rate, work for hire rate etc etc etc. Another reason why I'm not placing emphasis on the dollar amount is publishing and points and how they come into play however I do understand what you're trying to convey.
You can talk about emotional, sentimental value or whatever but that's typically worthless to everyone but yourself.
In some cases it is worthless to the person who may purchase from you. In others it's not. I say it's an individual thing however to most people it IS worthless.
I've already stated my opinion and it's an opinion that has solidified itself over about 20 years of doing that kind of work. To date, you are the only person I've ever seen who suggests tracking out everything you do is a good idea and not a waste of time. I've also never had a situation where it was critical that I had a beat tracked out and on my person because of some 'spur of the moment' occurance.
TIME=MONEY is an opinion that has not solidified itself for about 20 years. It's actually older...lol. Anyway I don't track out EVERYTHING I do. Do I track out the stuff I feel is worthy to go on? Yes. The stuff I feel sounds good enough for me? Yep. The stuff I feel is good enough for others? YES. You are overlooking one key area and that is the area of DATA LOSS which is why I say to back the music up as much as possible. So you've never kept beats on your computer and sold them because such and such got at you at the last minute?
It's okay that you have a different opinion. When I first started out, I would've agreed with you.
You being in the game longer than I have has nothing to do with my current views on the situation. I can say right now that articles I've read by THE BIG O and Roger Nichols disagree with your view 100% IF IT'S WORTH IT TO YOU BACK IT UP.
The 'make 50 beats, sell 25' scenario is an example that is probably a little on the generous side for most of these cats. You know this. As far as the logic, you said it yourself... "YES you could charge by the hour, multi track each instrument, and make some extra dough". Are you implying that telling these newbies to get their money is a bad idea?
No I'm not implying that telling them to get their loot is a bad idea. Thats what I'm encouraging. However consider the numbers you tossed out. 10 MINUTES TO DUMP A TRACK PLUS THE TIME IT TAKES TO CATCH THE LEVELS. I CAN'T SEE THE TOTAL TIME EXCEEDING AN HOUR. PEOPLE ARE CHARGING $15-$500 AN HOUR. SOME SPOTS WOULDN'T EVEN CHARGE YOU THE CATCHING LEVELS TIME (SOME CONSIDER IT "SET UP"). SO HOW MUCH LOOT ARE WE TALKING HERE?
And I'm sure you've dealt with plenty of clients who know exactly what they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything.
And I'm positive you've run into the same type of clients. Those who know exactlyw hat they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything. It works both ways pimpin.
Did you actually just suggest that cut&paste'ing 8 bar loops is not 'arranging'? That's funny.
I don't see how you could pull that from my statement. Either you're blind, stupid or a tad of both...However for clarification purposes let's examine what I said:
Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
When I speak of arranging I'm making reference to the song structure and how it's mapped out. If you simply have all the tracks looped for 8 and no song structure how is that arranging? Where is the intro, verse, hook, bridge, tempo change etc? You have NONE which is why I said you're not dealing with it. All you have is 8 bars worth of music. Yes you can have chorus sounds or chorus notes playing but is the song arranged? NOPE. It's a wall of sound with everything playing at once. Do you understand now?
By "sample cd's" are you referring to 'beat cd's' or 'production samplers'? This question is almost too stupid to answer but I'll do it anyway. People who make beats generally do quick stereo mixes for the purpose of compiling them onto 'beat' or 'production sampler' cd's. These are used as an easy means to 'demo' their work.
I understand this but thats not the question I'm asking. Why are these "a list" producers doing beat cd's to begin with? If they are "a-list" they shouldn't be making beat cd's right? They have clients and listening parties and charge just to listen am I correct?
Now let me ask you a stupid question... Do you do that with your pre-made beats or do you load up the sequences & sounds to each beat you want to demo? Or do you load up your tracked out versions one-by-one?
Actually it's not a stupid question and I think I shed some light about it in the previous post (or the one before it). I can do it several ways. I can keep it in the keyboards, load it up and go stereo out. At that point I have to mute and unmute from the keyboard (because I don't structure the song from teh keyboard). Will it sound ok? Yes. Will it sound as good as everything being tracked at unity gain and running through its own track/channel? No. I can also load the tracked out versions (if it was tracked out).
To clarify this for you, I said that I'm past the point where I have to send beat cd's to people. I don't need to make websites to promote my work nor do I need to mail out beat cd's to every aspiring artist that wants one. I'm at the point where I have people waiting in line to work with me and who know they want atleast x number of beats before even hearing anything.
why are these a list producers doing it? How do you feel about EMI mailing out beat cd's? You are at the point of...naw forget it. That'll only open up another can of worms.
Now, there are certain artists who have broke a lot of bread with me. They're big budgeted clients and aggressively promoted by their labels. Because of that, I do let a select few hold beat cd's when they ask. Which is by choice, not necessity.
Clean it up guy.....
It does when you're placing a dollar amount on it. If you've ever sold a beat, you've put a price on your music. In the real world if you can't get a person to buy one of your beats for $5 million then no, your beats are not worth $5 million.
Yes i've sold music and put a price on it but at the end of the day I can't say if it was worth more or less. I see a difference between worth and what it was sold for. In the real world you're beats WOULD be worth $5 million if that were your starting rate, work for hire rate etc etc etc. Another reason why I'm not placing emphasis on the dollar amount is publishing and points and how they come into play however I do understand what you're trying to convey.
You can talk about emotional, sentimental value or whatever but that's typically worthless to everyone but yourself.
In some cases it is worthless to the person who may purchase from you. In others it's not. I say it's an individual thing however to most people it IS worthless.
