beat archival?
- Thread starter BaneTheTerrible
- Start date
I keep multiple copies of the beats on floppy (midi,8 bar sequence), I track it out (8 bar loops or however long each instrument was looped), make a copy session of that, use the copy for the sequence/arrangement, arrange the song, make a copy of that, mix,make several different versions of the mix, bounce the tracks down, make several copies of the bounced file and thats it. That way I ALWAYS have a copy of the music in some shape form or fashion. Multiple drives and blank cd's....
^^^^ depends on what sound you're going for and if you have the ability to process the tracks with plug ins or outboard gear. Personally I would track dry add fx later but sometimes I track strings and percussion with a bit of reverb. It all depends on what you're able to do after the fact...
I wouldn't track workstation/sound module/beat machine sounds with compression. The sounds are already compressed and you can get all the notes to hit at the same volume (if you you desire such a thing) by making sure each notes velocity is set to 127 (or whatever your module or board uses).
BTW how are you TRACKING your music?
I wouldn't track workstation/sound module/beat machine sounds with compression. The sounds are already compressed and you can get all the notes to hit at the same volume (if you you desire such a thing) by making sure each notes velocity is set to 127 (or whatever your module or board uses).
BTW how are you TRACKING your music?
I am using Cubase VST to do all of my tracking. I currently use All VSTi's now, no more hardware. I have a solid basic knowledge of the things I use. I have very basic mixing skills. I have no EQ skills at all.
I just want to get myself to the point of where I have the quality to put my product on the open market in a serious manner, and i have the knowledge to manage files and to be able to deliver what the customer needs. I am definetly getting some questions answered here though so thats good.
I just want to get myself to the point of where I have the quality to put my product on the open market in a serious manner, and i have the knowledge to manage files and to be able to deliver what the customer needs. I am definetly getting some questions answered here though so thats good.
Might as well mix each instrument tracks to a different file with all processing on it already if you want it archived and be ready to go for the next run.
On something that Heresy touched on, I wouldn't even compress much if at all if I was archiving. The reason for this is that you may want to go back on something and find that you want to use a different compressor on it or might want to try some different compression settings. If you are pretty comfortable with your compression, by all means go for it. But once you have compression on audio and the compression is processed, that's what you're going to be left with. Same goes for eq and reverb along with most other effects out there.
On something that Heresy touched on, I wouldn't even compress much if at all if I was archiving. The reason for this is that you may want to go back on something and find that you want to use a different compressor on it or might want to try some different compression settings. If you are pretty comfortable with your compression, by all means go for it. But once you have compression on audio and the compression is processed, that's what you're going to be left with. Same goes for eq and reverb along with most other effects out there.
Fuck tracking out, doing any more than a rough mix, and mastering your music without getting paid for it. That's silly and it won't add any value to your music. Which is why I'll tell you right now, most a-list producers are not doing all that just for a "beat cd".
As far as archiving, just backup your sounds & sequences. Do a rough (but good) mix and there you have it.
As far as archiving, just backup your sounds & sequences. Do a rough (but good) mix and there you have it.
to be honest some of you should read....
We need some clarification here. Bane you asked the following:
what is the best way to archive your beats after you finish with them?
We are talking about the BEST way to ARCHIVE beats after you finish them correct? If that is your question (and I'm positive it is) the best way is to have ***MULTIPLE*** back ups of your original files/sequences from the KEYBOARD or MODULE (most likely this will be small enough to fit on a floppy). Drop the files on multiple drives or partitions (just in case one drive dies on you). Back the files up using cd-r or dvd's.
Let's use logic for a moment. If you DON'T track the music out you'll most likely do a stereo out "dump" from your module,sound source,keyboard etc etc etc. If someone wanted to purchase the beat wouldn't it be easier to track it out in the first place? You're going to have to do it at some point so why not do it after you feel its "ready"? Now pay attention to logic. Lets say you DON'T track the beat out (but place it on a cd), someone hears the beat, wants to buy it, but someone spilled soda on your keyboard and it no longer works.......:hurt:
If you had the beat on your drive you could at least sell it and use the money to repair your board right? Right.
When you feel it's READY track it out A.S.A.P
I'll tell you right now most A-list producers, Million dollar labs and magazine owners are keeping multiple copies of the work in various formats.
I would also like to add that the value of music should not be placed on on how much you got paid. IMHO it should be placed on what you put into it.....
Oh and I almost forgot this. Let's say you arranged/sequenced the beat from a workstation or mpc or whatever. Let's say you let someone hear it and they want it. Well guess what? If the song is 5 minutes long and you multitrack 16 different parts how much hard drive space do you think you'll use? Compare that to if you track it out first (loop each instrument for 8 bars), cut and paste?
:hgk:
We need some clarification here. Bane you asked the following:
what is the best way to archive your beats after you finish with them?
We are talking about the BEST way to ARCHIVE beats after you finish them correct? If that is your question (and I'm positive it is) the best way is to have ***MULTIPLE*** back ups of your original files/sequences from the KEYBOARD or MODULE (most likely this will be small enough to fit on a floppy). Drop the files on multiple drives or partitions (just in case one drive dies on you). Back the files up using cd-r or dvd's.
Let's use logic for a moment. If you DON'T track the music out you'll most likely do a stereo out "dump" from your module,sound source,keyboard etc etc etc. If someone wanted to purchase the beat wouldn't it be easier to track it out in the first place? You're going to have to do it at some point so why not do it after you feel its "ready"? Now pay attention to logic. Lets say you DON'T track the beat out (but place it on a cd), someone hears the beat, wants to buy it, but someone spilled soda on your keyboard and it no longer works.......:hurt:
If you had the beat on your drive you could at least sell it and use the money to repair your board right? Right.
When you feel it's READY track it out A.S.A.P
I'll tell you right now most A-list producers, Million dollar labs and magazine owners are keeping multiple copies of the work in various formats.
I would also like to add that the value of music should not be placed on on how much you got paid. IMHO it should be placed on what you put into it.....
Oh and I almost forgot this. Let's say you arranged/sequenced the beat from a workstation or mpc or whatever. Let's say you let someone hear it and they want it. Well guess what? If the song is 5 minutes long and you multitrack 16 different parts how much hard drive space do you think you'll use? Compare that to if you track it out first (loop each instrument for 8 bars), cut and paste?
:hgk:
First of all, no, you won't likely have to track out every beat you make because it's not likely you will sell every beat you make. Let's use some better logic... Nobody should need reminding of this but just for the sake of saying it, your TIME = MONEY. Now let's say you make 50 beats and only sell half of them. It will have been a complete waste tracking out all 50.
Next, when you have a paying client, they decide when the beat is "ready". Sometimes they're happy with how you have it but they may want changes in the sequencing and/or song arrangement... Why track something out when you might have to go back, make changes and track it out all over again anyways? Pointless and a waste of time.
Come on.
I know, work with and advise a good number of a-list producers. Practically all of them do stereo mixes and the smart ones do keep several backups of their sequences/sounds/etc. I can't however, name a single person who tracks out all their music ahead of time, especially before any money has changed hands.
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Some of the more musically gifted people can just slap beats together with little to no effort at all and have the end result still be way hotter than what other people come up with after several hours or even days. Are you implying that a hot beat that took 30 minutes & little effort to complete is worth less than a piece of crap that took some sap a week to make?
Splitting out 16 tracks @ 5 minutes in length will typically use anywhere from about 400-800 megs depending on what sample rate, bit-depth and the # of stereo tracks you're using. 5 minutes worth of 96khz 32bit stereo tracks totals 3.5G of harddrive space. Less than a standard DVD. This is really a non-issue and I can't name a single person who is concerned with this.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any). You still have to dump the same # of tracks and if you have any changes in the beat, choruses, etc, then it's even more dumping and copy&pasting. I don't see many people who arn't splitting atleast 8 tracks per run and since most (rap) beats arn't using more than 16, you've got 10 minutes to split + the time it takes you to set levels. That's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the different parts to your beat and then rebuilding the song arrangement with loops.
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
Next, when you have a paying client, they decide when the beat is "ready". Sometimes they're happy with how you have it but they may want changes in the sequencing and/or song arrangement... Why track something out when you might have to go back, make changes and track it out all over again anyways? Pointless and a waste of time.
Come on.
I know, work with and advise a good number of a-list producers. Practically all of them do stereo mixes and the smart ones do keep several backups of their sequences/sounds/etc. I can't however, name a single person who tracks out all their music ahead of time, especially before any money has changed hands.
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Some of the more musically gifted people can just slap beats together with little to no effort at all and have the end result still be way hotter than what other people come up with after several hours or even days. Are you implying that a hot beat that took 30 minutes & little effort to complete is worth less than a piece of crap that took some sap a week to make?
Splitting out 16 tracks @ 5 minutes in length will typically use anywhere from about 400-800 megs depending on what sample rate, bit-depth and the # of stereo tracks you're using. 5 minutes worth of 96khz 32bit stereo tracks totals 3.5G of harddrive space. Less than a standard DVD. This is really a non-issue and I can't name a single person who is concerned with this.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any). You still have to dump the same # of tracks and if you have any changes in the beat, choruses, etc, then it's even more dumping and copy&pasting. I don't see many people who arn't splitting atleast 8 tracks per run and since most (rap) beats arn't using more than 16, you've got 10 minutes to split + the time it takes you to set levels. That's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the different parts to your beat and then rebuilding the song arrangement with loops.
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
First of all, no, you won't likely have to track out every beat you make because it's not likely you will sell every beat you make. Let's use some better logic... Nobody should need reminding of this but just for the sake of saying it, your TIME = MONEY. Now let's say you make 50 beats and only sell half of them. It will have been a complete waste tracking out all 50.
To say it would be a waste tracking them out is your opinion. Yes TIME=MONEY but that should come into play when someone is charging by the hour. Are you telling me YOU don't take the time to track out beats so they are ready to go for yourself (if you rap), your artists (if you have them) and clients? Why not keep something on hand for the spur of the moment type who need shit asap?
You make 50 and only slang half? 25 beats sold and it took you less than 25 hours to track out all 50. Do the math here man you aren't loosing out on ANY loot because it's all YOUR shit. YES you could charge by the hour,multi track each instrument and make some extra dough but how much? I really don't see the logic here.
Next, when you have a paying client, they decide when the beat is "ready". Sometimes they're happy with how you have it but they may want changes in the sequencing and/or song arrangement... Why track something out when you might have to go back, make changes and track it out all over again anyways? Pointless and a waste of time.
Speaking from personal experience it wasn't the client who decided when the beat was ready but myself. They relied on my judgement and call. Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
Come on.
where are we going?
I know, work with and advise a good number of a-list producers.
This means what to me?
At this point in time I do the *SAME* thing you just told me YOU do so whats your point?
Practically all of them do stereo mixes and the smart ones do keep several backups of their sequences/sounds/etc.
Quick question why are these a-list producers doing stereo mixes? Are they doing stereo mixes for sample cd's? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say the cats you work with don't do sample cd's? The main thing I'm trying to drive home is keeping multiple back ups and to be ready.
I can't however, name a single person who tracks out all their music ahead of time, especially before any money has changed hands.
Because YOU don't know of a single person does that mean it doesn't happen? Since we are speaking on PRODUCERS *AND* COMPOSERS(please clarify if you are referring to composers or producers) I know SEVERAL who have tracked the beat out and had it ready to go for the artist. Hell I did it for the funk on site 2 compilation. I had the beat tracked out, arranged and ready to go BEFORE the money had come into my hands. I told them it was an 8 intro, 16 verse, 8 hook,16 verse,8 hook,16 verse, 8 hook, 16 outro. I did it like this because I had several parts in the song that were NOT looped (like a string segment that played legatto at the end of verse 2). I knew how the music was supposed to sound and understood the MOOD and TENSION I was trying to create with the song. Now I don't know who you work with but I've set down with people watch them make the music, track it out the next day and bam! It's sold or an artist is on the track. I can understand where you are coming from if you bill by the hour but if thats not where your coming from........
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Thats up for debate man I can't put a price on art or music. I can't say the next cats beat is worth 5 million while some other guys beat is worth 6 bucks. Thats in the eye of the beholder or listener and what there budget allows for. When you say a beat is worth xy and z what are we basing it on? The price it was sold for? The style of playing? The equipment used to create it? How much time it took? Just because someone is willing to pay for it doesn't mean it's worth more or less.
Some of the more musically gifted people can just slap beats together with little to no effort at all and have the end result still be way hotter than what other people come up with after several hours or even days. Are you implying that a hot beat that took 30 minutes & little effort to complete is worth less than a piece of crap that took some sap a week to make?
Well according to you it WOULD be worth less if someone is willing to pay the sap more money. If it took a guy 30 minutes to make a slap and another guy a week to make a slap how can I put a price on it? You're comparing the musically gifted with a sap. You're comparing someone who most likely has knowledge and experience to someone who needs a week to make a song. If the person who took 30 minutes to make it put all his creativity, knowledge, experience and talent into it thats cool. If someone on a lower level took a week to refine the beat, correct mistakes and polish it thats cool. As long as they are doing the best to there ability or exceeding that ability who am I to judge it or put a price tag on it?
Splitting out 16 tracks @ 5 minutes in length will typically use anywhere from about 400-800 megs depending on what sample rate, bit-depth and the # of stereo tracks you're using. 5 minutes worth of 96khz 32bit stereo tracks totals 3.5G of harddrive space. Less than a standard DVD. This is really a non-issue and I can't name a single person who is concerned with this.
I have recording equipment and know the stats and specs. Why are you telling me this? You can't name a single person who is concerned with this? Please visit the digi duc or any board where newbies pop up and ask "which is better 16 or 24 bit" or "what sample rate should I record at 44.1, 88.2 or 96khz?" I can name Plenty of people who this is an issue with. Lets start out with those who are NEW to recording or those who have LIMITED space.
I was paid to work at http://www.sfsoundworks.com two months ago. I had to do 4 days at that spot and guess what issue came up? HARD DRIVE SPACE, HOW MUCH WAS BEING USED, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO BACK IT UP, WOULD THE CLIENT BE CHARGED FOR THE TIME TO DUMP AND BACK IT UP ETC ETC ETC? Believe me it's NOT a non-issue when money is being paid.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any).
You are incorrect. You're saving yourself hard drive space AND time.
You still have to dump the same # of tracks and if you have any changes in the beat, choruses, etc, then it's even more dumping and copy&pasting. I don't see many people who arn't splitting atleast 8 tracks per run and since most (rap) beats arn't using more than 16, you've got 10 minutes to split + the time it takes you to set levels. That's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the different parts to your beat and then rebuilding the song arrangement with loops.
You aren't factoring in how much time it actually took you to create the changes in the beat, choruses, etc in the FIRST place. I'm speaking from my personal experience man. With cubase sx (even when I was using cubase 24 and cubase 5) I would load the midi, arrange the parts, catch levels and dump the tracks. I still do that when the song calls for it but sometimes I dump the loop and cut and paste. You don't see many people who aren't splitting at least 8 tracks per run? Well most workstations only have a main out and 2 individual outs. I can see this happening in the case of multiple sound sources being synced, an mpc with 8 outs or a workstation with Mlan. So who are these people you speak of?
I don't get what you're saying. One minute you're saying to NOT dump the tracks and arrange it and the next minute you're saying it's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the original parts and rebuilding the song arrangement with loops....
Yes you can do it the way you're suggesting (which I have done) but it takes MORE time and takes MORE hard drive space. Not to mention if you sequence from a workstation or mpc you'll most likely be sequencing/arranging from a smaller screen, with less options (pertaining to audio and midi capabilities) and possible drop outs if the sync isn't stable to actually carry *multiple* stereo tracks. Let's not forget polyphony issues when multiple parts or busy arrangments are playing (such as a chorus part).
What I'm suggesting is a simple TRANSFER. TRANSFER the parts from the audio source to the recording destination. If you have a song that hasn't been arranged whats wrong with dumping it?
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
Thats a good way to think of things but where would that leave interns or newbies? Would they simply be sitting around waiting or should they do work? Are you saying to not make music until you get a call to make a track?
To say it would be a waste tracking them out is your opinion. Yes TIME=MONEY but that should come into play when someone is charging by the hour. Are you telling me YOU don't take the time to track out beats so they are ready to go for yourself (if you rap), your artists (if you have them) and clients? Why not keep something on hand for the spur of the moment type who need shit asap?
You make 50 and only slang half? 25 beats sold and it took you less than 25 hours to track out all 50. Do the math here man you aren't loosing out on ANY loot because it's all YOUR shit. YES you could charge by the hour,multi track each instrument and make some extra dough but how much? I really don't see the logic here.
Next, when you have a paying client, they decide when the beat is "ready". Sometimes they're happy with how you have it but they may want changes in the sequencing and/or song arrangement... Why track something out when you might have to go back, make changes and track it out all over again anyways? Pointless and a waste of time.
Speaking from personal experience it wasn't the client who decided when the beat was ready but myself. They relied on my judgement and call. Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
Come on.
where are we going?
I know, work with and advise a good number of a-list producers.
This means what to me?
At this point in time I do the *SAME* thing you just told me YOU do so whats your point?
Practically all of them do stereo mixes and the smart ones do keep several backups of their sequences/sounds/etc.
Quick question why are these a-list producers doing stereo mixes? Are they doing stereo mixes for sample cd's? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say the cats you work with don't do sample cd's? The main thing I'm trying to drive home is keeping multiple back ups and to be ready.
I can't however, name a single person who tracks out all their music ahead of time, especially before any money has changed hands.
Because YOU don't know of a single person does that mean it doesn't happen? Since we are speaking on PRODUCERS *AND* COMPOSERS(please clarify if you are referring to composers or producers) I know SEVERAL who have tracked the beat out and had it ready to go for the artist. Hell I did it for the funk on site 2 compilation. I had the beat tracked out, arranged and ready to go BEFORE the money had come into my hands. I told them it was an 8 intro, 16 verse, 8 hook,16 verse,8 hook,16 verse, 8 hook, 16 outro. I did it like this because I had several parts in the song that were NOT looped (like a string segment that played legatto at the end of verse 2). I knew how the music was supposed to sound and understood the MOOD and TENSION I was trying to create with the song. Now I don't know who you work with but I've set down with people watch them make the music, track it out the next day and bam! It's sold or an artist is on the track. I can understand where you are coming from if you bill by the hour but if thats not where your coming from........
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Thats up for debate man I can't put a price on art or music. I can't say the next cats beat is worth 5 million while some other guys beat is worth 6 bucks. Thats in the eye of the beholder or listener and what there budget allows for. When you say a beat is worth xy and z what are we basing it on? The price it was sold for? The style of playing? The equipment used to create it? How much time it took? Just because someone is willing to pay for it doesn't mean it's worth more or less.
Some of the more musically gifted people can just slap beats together with little to no effort at all and have the end result still be way hotter than what other people come up with after several hours or even days. Are you implying that a hot beat that took 30 minutes & little effort to complete is worth less than a piece of crap that took some sap a week to make?
Well according to you it WOULD be worth less if someone is willing to pay the sap more money. If it took a guy 30 minutes to make a slap and another guy a week to make a slap how can I put a price on it? You're comparing the musically gifted with a sap. You're comparing someone who most likely has knowledge and experience to someone who needs a week to make a song. If the person who took 30 minutes to make it put all his creativity, knowledge, experience and talent into it thats cool. If someone on a lower level took a week to refine the beat, correct mistakes and polish it thats cool. As long as they are doing the best to there ability or exceeding that ability who am I to judge it or put a price tag on it?
Splitting out 16 tracks @ 5 minutes in length will typically use anywhere from about 400-800 megs depending on what sample rate, bit-depth and the # of stereo tracks you're using. 5 minutes worth of 96khz 32bit stereo tracks totals 3.5G of harddrive space. Less than a standard DVD. This is really a non-issue and I can't name a single person who is concerned with this.
I have recording equipment and know the stats and specs. Why are you telling me this? You can't name a single person who is concerned with this? Please visit the digi duc or any board where newbies pop up and ask "which is better 16 or 24 bit" or "what sample rate should I record at 44.1, 88.2 or 96khz?" I can name Plenty of people who this is an issue with. Lets start out with those who are NEW to recording or those who have LIMITED space.
I was paid to work at http://www.sfsoundworks.com two months ago. I had to do 4 days at that spot and guess what issue came up? HARD DRIVE SPACE, HOW MUCH WAS BEING USED, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO BACK IT UP, WOULD THE CLIENT BE CHARGED FOR THE TIME TO DUMP AND BACK IT UP ETC ETC ETC? Believe me it's NOT a non-issue when money is being paid.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any).
You are incorrect. You're saving yourself hard drive space AND time.
You still have to dump the same # of tracks and if you have any changes in the beat, choruses, etc, then it's even more dumping and copy&pasting. I don't see many people who arn't splitting atleast 8 tracks per run and since most (rap) beats arn't using more than 16, you've got 10 minutes to split + the time it takes you to set levels. That's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the different parts to your beat and then rebuilding the song arrangement with loops.
You aren't factoring in how much time it actually took you to create the changes in the beat, choruses, etc in the FIRST place. I'm speaking from my personal experience man. With cubase sx (even when I was using cubase 24 and cubase 5) I would load the midi, arrange the parts, catch levels and dump the tracks. I still do that when the song calls for it but sometimes I dump the loop and cut and paste. You don't see many people who aren't splitting at least 8 tracks per run? Well most workstations only have a main out and 2 individual outs. I can see this happening in the case of multiple sound sources being synced, an mpc with 8 outs or a workstation with Mlan. So who are these people you speak of?
I don't get what you're saying. One minute you're saying to NOT dump the tracks and arrange it and the next minute you're saying it's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the original parts and rebuilding the song arrangement with loops....
Yes you can do it the way you're suggesting (which I have done) but it takes MORE time and takes MORE hard drive space. Not to mention if you sequence from a workstation or mpc you'll most likely be sequencing/arranging from a smaller screen, with less options (pertaining to audio and midi capabilities) and possible drop outs if the sync isn't stable to actually carry *multiple* stereo tracks. Let's not forget polyphony issues when multiple parts or busy arrangments are playing (such as a chorus part).
What I'm suggesting is a simple TRANSFER. TRANSFER the parts from the audio source to the recording destination. If you have a song that hasn't been arranged whats wrong with dumping it?
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
Thats a good way to think of things but where would that leave interns or newbies? Would they simply be sitting around waiting or should they do work? Are you saying to not make music until you get a call to make a track?
So correct me if I'm wrong Sick. You're saying to keep everything in the keyboard,module or mpc until a client wants the beat. Am I correct? You're saying it's easier to arrange where?
I'm saying to record the arranged or non arranged version into the computer regardless of if someone wants it or not. I'm saying it saves more time and space by arranging the non looped version on the computer.
Lets say you have the HOTTEST beat known to man and not one person has heard it yet. Lets say you have it on a floppy disk and you accidently left it close to a speaker.....let's say you accidently changed the performence setting.....what happens to that hot beat that had the potential to bring in some dough?
I'm saying to record the arranged or non arranged version into the computer regardless of if someone wants it or not. I'm saying it saves more time and space by arranging the non looped version on the computer.
Lets say you have the HOTTEST beat known to man and not one person has heard it yet. Lets say you have it on a floppy disk and you accidently left it close to a speaker.....let's say you accidently changed the performence setting.....what happens to that hot beat that had the potential to bring in some dough?
To say it would be a waste tracking them out is your opinion. Yes TIME=MONEY but that should come into play when someone is charging by the hour. Are you telling me YOU don't take the time to track out beats so they are ready to go for yourself (if you rap), your artists (if you have them) and clients? Why not keep something on hand for the spur of the moment type who need shit asap?
-----
I've already stated my opinion and it's an opinion that has solidified itself over about 20 years of doing that kind of work. To date, you are the only person I've ever seen who suggests tracking out everything you do is a good idea and not a waste of time. I've also never had a situation where it was critical that I had a beat tracked out and on my person because of some 'spur of the moment' occurance.
It's okay that you have a different opinion. When I first started out, I would've agreed with you.
You make 50 and only slang half? 25 beats sold and it took you less than 25 hours to track out all 50. Do the math here man you aren't loosing out on ANY loot because it's all YOUR shit. YES you could charge by the hour,multi track each instrument and make some extra dough but how much? I really don't see the logic here.
-----
The 'make 50 beats, sell 25' scenario is an example that is probably a little on the generous side for most of these cats. You know this. As far as the logic, you said it yourself... "YES you could charge by the hour, multi track each instrument, and make some extra dough". Are you implying that telling these newbies to get their money is a bad idea?
Speaking from personal experience it wasn't the client who decided when the beat was ready but myself. They relied on my judgement and call.
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And I'm sure you've dealt with plenty of clients who know exactly what they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything.
Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
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Did you actually just suggest that cut&paste'ing 8 bar loops is not 'arranging'? That's funny.
Quick question why are these a-list producers doing stereo mixes? Are they doing stereo mixes for sample cd's? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say the cats you work with don't do sample cd's? The main thing I'm trying to drive home is keeping multiple back ups and to be ready.
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By "sample cd's" are you referring to 'beat cd's' or 'production samplers'? This question is almost too stupid to answer but I'll do it anyway. People who make beats generally do quick stereo mixes for the purpose of compiling them onto 'beat' or 'production sampler' cd's. These are used as an easy means to 'demo' their work.
Now let me ask you a stupid question... Do you do that with your pre-made beats or do you load up the sequences & sounds to each beat you want to demo? Or do you load up your tracked out versions one-by-one?
To clarify this for you, I said that I'm past the point where I have to send beat cd's to people. I don't need to make websites to promote my work nor do I need to mail out beat cd's to every aspiring artist that wants one. I'm at the point where I have people waiting in line to work with me and who know they want atleast x number of beats before even hearing anything.
Now, there are certain artists who have broke a lot of bread with me. They're big budgeted clients and aggressively promoted by their labels. Because of that, I do let a select few hold beat cd's when they ask. Which is by choice, not necessity.
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Thats up for debate man I can't put a price on art or music. I can't say the next cats beat is worth 5 million while some other guys beat is worth 6 bucks. Thats in the eye of the beholder or listener and what there budget allows for. When you say a beat is worth xy and z what are we basing it on? The price it was sold for? The style of playing? The equipment used to create it? How much time it took? Just because someone is willing to pay for it doesn't mean it's worth more or less.
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It does when you're placing a dollar amount on it. If you've ever sold a beat, you've put a price on your music. In the real world if you can't get a person to buy one of your beats for $5 million then no, your beats are not worth $5 million.
You can talk about emotional, sentimental value or whatever but that's typically worthless to everyone but yourself. I don't have emotional attachments to the music I make available. It is simply a product I create with the intent to sell for a fee. And that fee is based on it's real world worth. If people are willing to pay $x, then that's what it's worth. That's business basics 101.
Well according to you it WOULD be worth less if someone is willing to pay the sap more money. If it took a guy 30 minutes to make a slap and another guy a week to make a slap how can I put a price on it?
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If a person ever expects to make any money off of their work they're better figure out how to put a price on it.
I have recording equipment and know the stats and specs. Why are you telling me this? You can't name a single person who is concerned with this? Please visit the digi duc or any board where newbies pop up and ask "which is better 16 or 24 bit" or "what sample rate should I record at 44.1, 88.2 or 96khz?" I can name Plenty of people who this is an issue with. Lets start out with those who are NEW to recording or those who have LIMITED space.
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Simple, you arn't the only person reading this. I've provided some actual numbers to help people get a perspective on this.
As I've already pointed out, splitting a beat with each track in stereo and with high sample & bit rates, the amount of actual space it takes is minimal. We are in the age of technology. People are using 20, 30, 50+ gig removable harddrives that cost less than the average electric bill.
If someone has a legitimate complaint about space, my advise to them wouldn't be going through the hassle of tracking out every little different piece of their beat and then reconstructing it in their multi-tracking software. Buy yourself a bigger harddrive and a spindle of blank cd's. A lot less work at hardly any additional cost. All pros, no cons.
I had to do 4 days at that spot and guess what issue came up? HARD DRIVE SPACE, HOW MUCH WAS BEING USED, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO BACK IT UP, WOULD THE CLIENT BE CHARGED FOR THE TIME TO DUMP AND BACK IT UP ETC ETC ETC? Believe me it's NOT a non-issue when money is being paid.
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Sounds like the result of poor studio management. If this were about 6 years ago that wouldn't sound so silly.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any).
You are incorrect. You're saving yourself hard drive space AND time.
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An insignificant amount of harddrive space and little (if any) time.
You don't see many people who aren't splitting at least 8 tracks per run? Well most workstations only have a main out and 2 individual outs. I can see this happening in the case of multiple sound sources being synced, an mpc with 8 outs or a workstation with Mlan.
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I don't know many people using a single workstation and nothing else to make their music on but the ones who are have fully expanded their outs. Obviously this means more than just L/R/1/2.
I don't get what you're saying. One minute you're saying to NOT dump the tracks and arrange it and the next minute you're saying it's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the original parts and rebuilding the song arrangement with loops....
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That's not what I said at all. Read it again for clarification.
Yes you can do it the way you're suggesting (which I have done) but it takes MORE time and takes MORE hard drive space.
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More harddrive space, yes but not significantly more. More time, that's easily debatable. As I have said, tracking out a 5 minute 16 track beat in two 8 track runs gives you 10 minutes + the time it takes to set levels. Using your method you would have to track out every single change in the music and then reconstruct the entire thing using loops, bits, and pieces in your multi-tracking software. It sounds like you're dealing with music that contains very little changes throughout the entire work.
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
Thats a good way to think of things but where would that leave interns or newbies? Would they simply be sitting around waiting or should they do work?
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This is your strongest point and it's actually a good one in regards to interns and newbies. The best way to learn about this stuff is by hands-on experience. However, there isn't a lot to learn when it comes to splitting tracks. It's one of the easier tasks in recording and I'ld argue that you're not going to be any better at it by doing it 50 times as opposed to 25.
Are you saying to not make music until you get a call to make a track?
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I haven't said or implied that. Obviously making music is a lot more involved than splitting tracks. Becoming a talented beat maker is something you learn to be over time. Splitting tracks is something you can learn in an afternoon.
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I've already stated my opinion and it's an opinion that has solidified itself over about 20 years of doing that kind of work. To date, you are the only person I've ever seen who suggests tracking out everything you do is a good idea and not a waste of time. I've also never had a situation where it was critical that I had a beat tracked out and on my person because of some 'spur of the moment' occurance.
It's okay that you have a different opinion. When I first started out, I would've agreed with you.
You make 50 and only slang half? 25 beats sold and it took you less than 25 hours to track out all 50. Do the math here man you aren't loosing out on ANY loot because it's all YOUR shit. YES you could charge by the hour,multi track each instrument and make some extra dough but how much? I really don't see the logic here.
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The 'make 50 beats, sell 25' scenario is an example that is probably a little on the generous side for most of these cats. You know this. As far as the logic, you said it yourself... "YES you could charge by the hour, multi track each instrument, and make some extra dough". Are you implying that telling these newbies to get their money is a bad idea?
Speaking from personal experience it wasn't the client who decided when the beat was ready but myself. They relied on my judgement and call.
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And I'm sure you've dealt with plenty of clients who know exactly what they want and don't need to rely on your opinions about anything.
Lets say you have a song comprised of 16 tracks of MUSIC. If you track each part out, for 8 bars (or however long its looped for) you can give the files to the client. You are NOT dealing with song arrangement and sequencing at this point because you simply have 8 bar loops that can be cut and pasted to taste. Once again I see no logic in your statement.
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Did you actually just suggest that cut&paste'ing 8 bar loops is not 'arranging'? That's funny.
Quick question why are these a-list producers doing stereo mixes? Are they doing stereo mixes for sample cd's? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say the cats you work with don't do sample cd's? The main thing I'm trying to drive home is keeping multiple back ups and to be ready.
-----
By "sample cd's" are you referring to 'beat cd's' or 'production samplers'? This question is almost too stupid to answer but I'll do it anyway. People who make beats generally do quick stereo mixes for the purpose of compiling them onto 'beat' or 'production sampler' cd's. These are used as an easy means to 'demo' their work.
Now let me ask you a stupid question... Do you do that with your pre-made beats or do you load up the sequences & sounds to each beat you want to demo? Or do you load up your tracked out versions one-by-one?
To clarify this for you, I said that I'm past the point where I have to send beat cd's to people. I don't need to make websites to promote my work nor do I need to mail out beat cd's to every aspiring artist that wants one. I'm at the point where I have people waiting in line to work with me and who know they want atleast x number of beats before even hearing anything.
Now, there are certain artists who have broke a lot of bread with me. They're big budgeted clients and aggressively promoted by their labels. Because of that, I do let a select few hold beat cd's when they ask. Which is by choice, not necessity.
In the real world your beats are only worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Thats up for debate man I can't put a price on art or music. I can't say the next cats beat is worth 5 million while some other guys beat is worth 6 bucks. Thats in the eye of the beholder or listener and what there budget allows for. When you say a beat is worth xy and z what are we basing it on? The price it was sold for? The style of playing? The equipment used to create it? How much time it took? Just because someone is willing to pay for it doesn't mean it's worth more or less.
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It does when you're placing a dollar amount on it. If you've ever sold a beat, you've put a price on your music. In the real world if you can't get a person to buy one of your beats for $5 million then no, your beats are not worth $5 million.
You can talk about emotional, sentimental value or whatever but that's typically worthless to everyone but yourself. I don't have emotional attachments to the music I make available. It is simply a product I create with the intent to sell for a fee. And that fee is based on it's real world worth. If people are willing to pay $x, then that's what it's worth. That's business basics 101.
Well according to you it WOULD be worth less if someone is willing to pay the sap more money. If it took a guy 30 minutes to make a slap and another guy a week to make a slap how can I put a price on it?
-----
If a person ever expects to make any money off of their work they're better figure out how to put a price on it.
I have recording equipment and know the stats and specs. Why are you telling me this? You can't name a single person who is concerned with this? Please visit the digi duc or any board where newbies pop up and ask "which is better 16 or 24 bit" or "what sample rate should I record at 44.1, 88.2 or 96khz?" I can name Plenty of people who this is an issue with. Lets start out with those who are NEW to recording or those who have LIMITED space.
-----
Simple, you arn't the only person reading this. I've provided some actual numbers to help people get a perspective on this.
As I've already pointed out, splitting a beat with each track in stereo and with high sample & bit rates, the amount of actual space it takes is minimal. We are in the age of technology. People are using 20, 30, 50+ gig removable harddrives that cost less than the average electric bill.
If someone has a legitimate complaint about space, my advise to them wouldn't be going through the hassle of tracking out every little different piece of their beat and then reconstructing it in their multi-tracking software. Buy yourself a bigger harddrive and a spindle of blank cd's. A lot less work at hardly any additional cost. All pros, no cons.
I had to do 4 days at that spot and guess what issue came up? HARD DRIVE SPACE, HOW MUCH WAS BEING USED, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO BACK IT UP, WOULD THE CLIENT BE CHARGED FOR THE TIME TO DUMP AND BACK IT UP ETC ETC ETC? Believe me it's NOT a non-issue when money is being paid.
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Sounds like the result of poor studio management. If this were about 6 years ago that wouldn't sound so silly.
While you could just dump a loop and then copy&paste (as you suggested), you're not saving yourself much time (if any).
You are incorrect. You're saving yourself hard drive space AND time.
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An insignificant amount of harddrive space and little (if any) time.
You don't see many people who aren't splitting at least 8 tracks per run? Well most workstations only have a main out and 2 individual outs. I can see this happening in the case of multiple sound sources being synced, an mpc with 8 outs or a workstation with Mlan.
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I don't know many people using a single workstation and nothing else to make their music on but the ones who are have fully expanded their outs. Obviously this means more than just L/R/1/2.
I don't get what you're saying. One minute you're saying to NOT dump the tracks and arrange it and the next minute you're saying it's a lot less work and easier than tracking out all the original parts and rebuilding the song arrangement with loops....
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That's not what I said at all. Read it again for clarification.
Yes you can do it the way you're suggesting (which I have done) but it takes MORE time and takes MORE hard drive space.
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More harddrive space, yes but not significantly more. More time, that's easily debatable. As I have said, tracking out a 5 minute 16 track beat in two 8 track runs gives you 10 minutes + the time it takes to set levels. Using your method you would have to track out every single change in the music and then reconstruct the entire thing using loops, bits, and pieces in your multi-tracking software. It sounds like you're dealing with music that contains very little changes throughout the entire work.
There's a very simple lesson you learn over the years; Don't do work you don't have to do until you're getting paid for it.
Thats a good way to think of things but where would that leave interns or newbies? Would they simply be sitting around waiting or should they do work?
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This is your strongest point and it's actually a good one in regards to interns and newbies. The best way to learn about this stuff is by hands-on experience. However, there isn't a lot to learn when it comes to splitting tracks. It's one of the easier tasks in recording and I'ld argue that you're not going to be any better at it by doing it 50 times as opposed to 25.
Are you saying to not make music until you get a call to make a track?
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I haven't said or implied that. Obviously making music is a lot more involved than splitting tracks. Becoming a talented beat maker is something you learn to be over time. Splitting tracks is something you can learn in an afternoon.
If you have your MIDI setup right, it only takes me about 10 minutes or so to track out a beat into Pro Tools that has 16 seperate parts. I've been selling tracks for a while, and one of the reasons I track em out as i go is so I could put a super clean mix on the track. They're alot more appealing to people listening if they're sounding on point. I actually save everything tho . I save the sequence in my MPC and the sound patches on my keyboards and modules. It really takes like a minute to save everything.
If it really takes you that long to track a beat out, you might want to upgrade your shit. It's real simple now.
If it really takes you that long to track a beat out, you might want to upgrade your shit. It's real simple now.