Anybody Scared of America Should Move to Cuba

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Oct 28, 2005
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#21
Cliff notes:

If your Socialist cause is strong, like you think it is, you will have no problems leaving it behind for just a few months. When you come back with the knowledge you will have gained, it will be that much stronger.....not weaker.

Living abroad, in its very nature, does not take away from you. It adds to you, and makes you more whole and more human.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#22
Dirty Shoez said:
Case in point: You ought to live in Cuba for a few years. You ought to move around, and see how the people are. You ought to interact with them. You ought to learn Spanish and learn to use it well. You ought to be around these people, and understand them, and learn how they REALLY VIEW this form of Communism, regardless of whether or not you view this strand as "real" Communism or not.

You do know that by law the U.S. government prevents it's citizens from doing such a thing, right?
 
May 13, 2002
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#23
Tadou, most of your entire post is arguing whether or not it would be good to live abroad for a couple of years or so. I am not opposed to that at all and perhaps you missed this but I stated, “Of course living abroad for only a couple years is a different story and something I would love to do one day.”

Europe is where I am most interested in traveling to and I would also love to go back to Mexico and much further south. Unfortunately I am a convicted felon and traveling can be at times complicated. Money, of course, is also an issue.

Learning a new language is something I’m sure I can do, but sadly I don’t have the gift that you obviously have with language. My step-brother has the same ability – he picked up Farsi and speaks fluently. He never took a class or any lessons, just picked it up on his own.

Most of which you said regarding living abroad, I agree with.

As for your comments on shifting the Democratic Party I cannot say the same.

What you should be doing is joining the Democratic party (in some capacity), and pushing HARD...HARD for workers' rights, BUT within the framework of this Judeo-Christian society.
I couldn’t disagree more. This has been a flawed strategy of many for decades and has been a miserable failure. IMO, the only way is for a new, grass-roots working class party to develop.

*Faggy...not Faggoty. Faggoty is purely mean-spirited. Faggy at the least has a tinge of humor.
I’ll make note of that.

You are definitely making change. But not like you could be. A Socialist Party in the united states, in the NorthWest, is not going to be viable, period. It is not going to happen. It will not happen. And it is a waste of time to contribute energy towards its cause.
Some might agree others may not. The Party I’m with has been around in Seattle for a long time and is apart of an International Socialist Organization that has been quite successful in over 50 countries. Aside from that, we also work closely with a network of other “leftist” organizations and contribute to a wide variety of things. Whether or not Socialism will come about in the US in the near feature is beside the point.

Saying that being apart of a socialist party is a waste of time is bs, imo. It’s like saying the Black Panthers (who I add were socialists) wasted their time.

You MUST splinter the Democratic and Republican parties into 3 parties before Socialists will have ANY CHANCE IN HELL of even BECOMING a 4th party. Even then, their numbers would be incredibly low, and not enough to win Governorships or Senate Seats; only House, and State House/Senate seats.
I couldn’t disagree more. The problem with trying to hijack a party or even breaking a party up is that it will still be much of the same or a reformist party, at best. But “the problem with reformists is that it’s not them who change the system, it is the system that eventually changes them.” – I.T. (I usually never quote rappers but in this case it’s fitting). There have been number of so called socialists and communists who tried this same strategy and failed every time, eventually fucking up their entire parties. IMO we need to build a strong base for the future so that we can have strong movements which will can lead to revolution.

Do you reject this analysis,
Not at all.

Why would you fear Cuba?
I don’t. I would love to live in Cuba for a couple years if it were easy to do so.

Living abroad, in its very nature, does not take away from you. It adds to you, and makes you more whole and more human.
I agree, and perhaps we were both slightly mistaken on what we meant.
 
Oct 28, 2005
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#25
ColdBlooded said:
You do know that by law the U.S. government prevents it's citizens from doing such a thing, right?
Human rights trump US Law. There is always a way. One way to get to Cuba is via Mexico. Sure, Mexico has "laws" and "agreements" that prohibit it as well, but...shit happens. Besides, if Cuba doesn't work out, there's always Venezuela.



2-0-Sixx said:
Tadou, most of your entire post is arguing whether or not it would be good to live abroad for a couple of years or so. I am not opposed to that at all and perhaps you missed this but I stated, “Of course living abroad for only a couple years is a different story and something I would love to do one day.”

Europe is where I am most interested in traveling to and I would also love to go back to Mexico and much further south. Unfortunately I am a convicted felon and traveling can be at times complicated. Money, of course, is also an issue.

Learning a new language is something I’m sure I can do, but sadly I don’t have the gift that you obviously have with language. My step-brother has the same ability – he picked up Farsi and speaks fluently. He never took a class or any lessons, just picked it up on his own.

Most of which you said regarding living abroad, I agree with.
This is good. Now we are working with something.

If you are interested in living in Europe, then French is the obvious choice; Russian is cool too, but class languages are fucked up (Latin, German, etc.) and very few words overlap with English.

If you could get your credentials up and really demonstrate fluency, I am sure they would not frown so much on your record. Volunteering here, in Schools and Hospitals, would be a good first step.

There exists a program in France where, if you have the equivalent of 2 years of French study, you can go abroad and teach English for a year, and they will pay you about 1000 euros a month. It is a very cool program, but it goes through the French embassy, so I am not quite sure how that would work.


Further south...of course...Spanish. The main thing I could say here is, don't worry about the accent or `sounding' like a Latino, because it is not going to happen. I've got a Spanish teacher now who's studied Spanish and lived in Spanish-speaking countries, and he still has a Gringo twang.

If you can UNDERSTAND the language and read it, the people will not get on your case so much about speaking or writing it.

As for your comments on shifting the Democratic Party I cannot say the same.

I couldn’t disagree more. This has been a flawed strategy of many for decades and has been a miserable failure. IMO, the only way is for a new, grass-roots working class party to develop.

Some might agree others may not. The Party I’m with has been around in Seattle for a long time and is apart of an International Socialist Organization that has been quite successful in over 50 countries. Aside from that, we also work closely with a network of other “leftist” organizations and contribute to a wide variety of things. Whether or not Socialism will come about in the US in the near feature is beside the point.

Saying that being apart of a socialist party is a waste of time is bs, imo. It’s like saying the Black Panthers (who I add were socialists) wasted their time.

I couldn’t disagree more. The problem with trying to hijack a party or even breaking a party up is that it will still be much of the same or a reformist party, at best. But “the problem with reformists is that it’s not them who change the system, it is the system that eventually changes them.” – I.T. (I usually never quote rappers but in this case it’s fitting). There have been number of so called socialists and communists who tried this same strategy and failed every time, eventually fucking up their entire parties. IMO we need to build a strong base for the future so that we can have strong movements which will can lead to revolution.
I will put this all together.

I am not sure a revolution can happen. We'll get blown off the face of the earth before America willingly turns Communist, or even Socialist, or allows a Comm/Social revolution to be sustained.

The one freedom we value the most is economic freedom. Spy on my phone and look at my medical records behind closed doors all you want, but the moment you start fucking with my cash flow....it's on. I'm sure as fuck not alone on this one.

As long as the people believe that, with enough hard work and dedication (or ass-kissing and beurocratic practices), they can make it to the top, an economic-based Revolution has no chance.

As for the Black Panthers, yes. They were mostly a waste of time, although they did do very many good deads. But, If they had done everything they did from a Right-wing stance, they would probably around now with a much larger force. The same way being a Bishop, Cardinal, etc, usually means you're a nutjob and have problems thinking outside the box--being Socialist almost demands that you are a radical and a polarizing force. For this reason, the people do not relate. It is like a college fad, and then those people grow out of it once they start making their own money and stop spending everyone else's.

Hijacking the party, perhaps, would not be a very smart thing. I am certain you have done more research on that topic. But i really do not see a Socialist party rising up above anything other than a Seat here or a Rally there. The appeal is just not there.

Workers Rights is one thing--higher minimum wages, mandatory health insurance (even for McJobs), lowered retirement age, raised taxes on the Soc Sec 90k treshhold, elimination of sales taxes for the poor, etc. These are all common-sense things.

But the whole program of Secularism, State-Owned Companies, Isolationism, Cutting off Free Trade, and all of these things....it is simply not wanted.

Not at all.

I don’t. I would love to live in Cuba for a couple years if it were easy to do so.

I agree, and perhaps we were both slightly mistaken on what we meant.
Would you believe me if i told you there were about 3 Conservatives at the school in Mexico I went to, and about 250 Liberals? True story.