Antonio Margarito vs. Sugar Shane Mosley

[MR. CLEEN]

Forrest and Margarito don't have similar boxing styles at all. Two different fighters altogether. Forrest had a great jab back then, Margarito is a brawler who tries to walk you down. He doesn't lead with a jab, if he does tell me what fight so I can go back and check that one out.

And on Cotto, why do you think he slowed down, from all that body work Shane put on him. Shane respected Cotto and didn't go in for the kill, but he clearly beat him. Did you see Cotto's face after that fight. They gave it to the young bankable star instead of the past his prime warrior. Cotto won't fight Shane unless he has a belt. And trust me this time he will get knocked out. i challenge you to rewatch the fight on mute with out the commentation leading you to believe he won.

 

[Tony]

From what I've seen I believe they do. Forrest walked/stalked Shane down and beat his ass in the first fight and in the rematch Shane kept holding...

Margarito is going to do the samething (stalk and walk Shane down). The only reason I won't pick Margarito to knock Shane out is because I think Shane is going be holding and he's going to keep tying Margarito up. He can't handle Margarito at this point in his career if he couldn't handle Forrest in his prime.

 

[MR. CLEEN]

A young prime Forrest would have beat Margarito too. The difference is the jab. Shane could not hit forrest. He is gonna be hitting Margarito with clean power punches and body work. Go back and watch the Forrest/Mosley fight and you'll see. He didn't just walk Shane down, he fought tall, and used his jab to lead and never was in trouble or hit with clean punches by Shane. Winky Wright did the same thing, and those were his only clear losses by bigger, stronger jab masters. Margarito is bigger but will bend down and try over power Shane, but will get hit with the kitchen sink to get to him. Check the Cotto/Margarito fight if you don't believe me. Margarito was gettin peppered the 1st half of the fight, and the only reason he survived is because he was able to take the punishment. Had Cotto went to the body he would have knocked Margarito out. If he can force Shane to tire out he has a chance. But you'll see, the one flaw Cotto had was no body work on the inside. Shane will wear Margatio's Body out if he doesn't run out of steam.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

And on Cotto, why do you think he slowed down, from all that body work Shane put on him.

That may have been some of it but Cotto was winning the rounds that shane was putting in work. Also I believe Cotto is an 8-10 round type of fighter, I don't think he has the stamina to go a FULL 12 rounds.

Shane respected Cotto and didn't go in for the kill, but he clearly beat him.

You are definitely in the minority then. There is no way you could say "shane clearly beat cotto." Impossible. At best it could be said it was a very close fight that "could have gone either way."

When I watched the fight live I had it scored very close. After a couple of rewatches I thought Cotto clearly won.

Did you see Cotto's face after that fight.

Did you see Calzaghe's face after the Hopkins fight? Judging a persons face is not a good way at determining who won.

They gave it to the young bankable star instead of the past his prime warrior.

I disagree, I think they gave it to the clear winner (and so do most other boxing experts like The Ring magazine, ESPN, yahoo sports, etc.).

Cotto won't fight Shane unless he has a belt. And trust me this time he will get knocked out. i challenge you to rewatch the fight on mute with out the commentation leading you to believe he won.

I have watched the fight about 3-4 times. I have the Sky Sports version too (which is the UK telecast, totally unbiased like the HBO crew can be).

 

[Tony]

I had Cotto winning a close fight, Shane came on pretty hard late, but it was too late. Cotto already had it wrapped up.

 

[MR. CLEEN]

I'll give you this, you know a good thing about boxing... But so do I bruh... I agree to disagree wit you on this one as plenty of people across the world surely do.

It definitely was a close fight, but Cotto was supposed to be the young juggernaut that would walk through the older Shane and until Margarito, Shane proved to be Cotto's hardest challenge. He hit Cotto with the cleaner, stronger punches which was clear from looking at his face. Shane got hit with plenty of clean shots but didn't look like that. I will say this, I gained respect for Cotto in that fight (before that i say he was overrated as Margarito finally proved), but still think he lost a close fight. Think about it, if the fight was close as you say it was (and we both agree it was close), he ran in the last three rounds because he was hurt so he should have lost those rounds based on that alone. De La Hoya ran for three rounds and wasn't even hurt and lost to Trinidad, a fight he was clearly winning. I wouldn't even give it a draw. Mosley's only fault is he didn't knock him out and they aint gonna take the belt from the champ in a close fought battle, especially to give it to Mosely. Too much time and money was invested in Cotto, who they expected to reighn for a long time just to lose to Margarito by not going to the body early in the fight. margarito has proved to have a chin so why head hunt...

 

[2-0-Sixx]

It definitely was a close fight, but Cotto was supposed to be the young juggernaut that would walk through the older Shane and until Margarito, Shane proved to be Cotto's hardest challenge.

No shame in that, Shane is a future hall of famer.

He hit Cotto with the cleaner, stronger punches which was clear from looking at his face.

Ugh, I dunno man, they both were pounding each other with clean, very hard shots. I thought Cotto was landing the harder/cleaner shots but it's really hard to say who hit who harder because they were all very hard punches both men. And again, judging a face is a bad way to judge who hits harder - some people puff up/bruise/cut easier then others. Mosley has always had good cuts. Bernard Hopkins for example has never had a cut in his entire career whereas some guys, like Lennox Lewis for example, begin to puff after the first couple of hits.

Some clean/hard punches (and I'm not trying to be biased here, you do a search and most all you find is mosley getting nailed):

Cotto's face after fight (really nothing besides that cut on his eye):

Think about it, if the fight was close as you say it was (and we both agree it was close)

No actually I said I scored it close live, when I rewatched it I thought Cotto clearly won.

he ran in the last three rounds because he was hurt so he should have lost those rounds based on that alone.

Hurt/gassed/whatever it doesn't matter he still won the fight on points.

De La Hoya ran for three rounds and wasn't even hurt and lost to Trinidad, a fight he was clearly winning.

If you think oscar was clearly winning only just lost the 3 rounds, and lost the fight because of it then there is something wrong with your scoring.

12 round fights. 10-9 rounds (unless knockdown/point deduction of course).

Add up all the points. Whoever wins the most rounds wins. Cotto won the most rounds, despite losing the later rounds.

Further on scoring, the criteria to score a round is broken down in four catagories: Clean Punching, Effective Aggressiveness, Ring Generalship and Defense.

But it's ok if you think shane won, your opinion everyone see's things differently, I just don't like that you say shane clearly won when most people disagree and the fact that the fight was close.

 

[MR. CLEEN]

Fam, who is most people??? I know people who think Shane won, and people who think Cotto won. Aint no slant in my view, just callin what I saw fairly as I can. You wrong for that reel of Cotto slappin Shane around LOL. But seriously, you are definitely entitled to your opinion, and I see what you tryin to do and say, but be clear, anybody can put a reel of Cotto's highlight punches together to make it look good, but if somebody had the time, they could do the same for the whippin Shane gave Cotto. Of course the scoring went in Cotto's favor, but he won the fight with the public before they ever through a punch. He knew he would have to knock him out to win and he didn't. I can live with that. In my humble opinion, I'll go with my score over today's judges any day. You sayin you haven't seen a fight where the scoring was wrong and in this case (or my opinion) it was wrong. If he beats Margarito we'll all get to see the rematch and they can do it again, and that's really all Mosley wants before he retire

 

[2-0-Sixx]

anybody can put a reel of Cotto's punches together to make it look good, but if somebody had the time, they could do the same for the whippin Shane gave Cotto.

No doubt, wasn't posting them to show Cotto WON, was posting to show he landed a lot of clean/hard punches too. I actually thought I still had the gifs of Mosleys clean punches on Cotto that I made and was going to post them as well. Don't have them though.

I'll go with my score over today's judges any day. You sayin you haven't seen a fight where the scoring was wrong and in this case (or my opinion) it was wrong.

No, I'm not going by the OFFICIAL judges scorecards. I never do! I'm going by my scorecards, and much more reliable scorecards like the Ring Magazine, ESPN, Yahoo sports, etc. You know, writers that can write how they saw the fight w/o having any type of motives to score for a particular fighter.

If he beats Margarito we'll all get to see the rematch and they can do it again, and that's really all Mosley wants before he retires.

That's a big if, I think mosley is a bit too old for Margs but we'll see. Should be a great one regardless

 

[MR. CLEEN]

Somehow those pics of Shane slappin Cotto around are mysteriously missing... LOL Just kiddin... It was a great fight no matter how you call it.

On Margarito/Mosely, I believe it will be a test of Mosely's mental strength due to his age, but nobody gave him a shot against Cotto either... We'll just have to wait and see. I can't totally respect Margarito until he pulls it off. I will say this, if Shane comes in anything less than prepared, he will have the same fate as Cotto due to Margarito's size alone, but remember Shane has been the smaller fighter in damn near all of his fights since he left the light weights and he has done well for him self. I really want to see a Mayweather/Mosely fight. That's the fight real boxing fans want to see. Mayweather aint touchin that wit a ten foot pole. Outside of speed and age, he has no clear advantages.

 

[Tony]

I had Cotto winning a close fight against Shane. In his prime, Shane would have won I think.

But this is a bad match-up for Shane style wise dog, if this jumps off ... We'll see what happens though, Mr. Cleen (my East Palo Alto folks), don't say I didn't want you mayne. Shane in his prime that fought De La Hoya vs this Margarito yeah, but not the Shane of today. This fight has Forrest vs Shane written all over it.

 

[Tony]

In their primes.... Shane would have beatin Mayweather because Zab was giving Mayweather trouble... Zab is just not mentally strong enough to finish anyone. Shane would have beatin Mayweather in their primes.

 

[Anaheim*Rob]

I believe I had the Cotto-Shane fight a draw at 6 rounds a piece. But judging the fight as a whole, I thought Cotto should have got the nod if I had to pick between the two. Shane definitely came on strong at the end and had Cotto fighting backwards but at the same time Cotto was still landing shots and even won a round going back. (Round 11, I think?) Great fight, regardless.

 

[Odracir]

Antonio Margarito vs. Shane Mosley Heads To January on HBO.

Antonio Margarito
30 years old
5′ 11″
73“ reach
37 (KO 27) + lost 5 (KO 0)
Last fight: Win TKO 11 over Cotto

damn look at that excellent textbook hook.

i got Mago on this one

 

[MR. CLEEN]

This is what happens when you don't go to the body of your opponent. All that head huntin left Cotto's tank empty, and there you have it, Margarito spoon feeding Cotto hooks like this one.

 

[MR. CLEEN]

I was reading a article where Cotto said he just couldn't get to Margaritos Body... Please, The dude stood in front of you, basically giving up his whole body and he chose to fire at the head(punches that woulda knocked a smaller fighter out I will say). After he proved he wouldn't be knocked out, he broke Cottos will and he was beaten every round there after.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

^^I don't know, Margarito's size and style did not really allow for a smaller cotto to get inside and work the body. If he did, he'd by wide open for the uppercut. Working the body is cotto's bread and butter, I just don't think he couldn't do it w/o taking serious punishment to the face.

I do think cotto had the right game plan for margarito, he just wasn't able to keep up the pace for that long. Being a boxer isn't really Cotto's forte anyways.

 

[T-Rip]

Margarito is gonna be way to much for Mosley, i dont even know if the Mosley of 6 to 7 years ago could hang with Margarito. Cotto beat Mosley period, im surprised that even being disputed, I hope you dont think Mosley beat De La Hoya in that second fight also.

Cotto was outmatched against Margarito just cuz of how much bigger Margarito was

 

[heyzel]

I like tony in this one I think age has already caught up with Mosley for some time. He fought well against Cotto considering his age and all, but even then, you saw how he fights different nowadays. He clinches a lot more. He held Cotto a lot. Older fighters can't maintain fast paces for as long.

The best game plan here for Mosley might be to use his speed and get off first, and then tie up Tony as quick as possible. It won't be pretty, but it may be his best shot. Otherwise, I don't think Mosley has enough in the tank left to beat Margarito in a fire-fight. As far as outboxing Margarito, well Mosley has some boxing abilties, but he's always been much more of a "speedy slugger" than a boxer anyway

 

[MR. CLEEN]

As a fighter you're gonna get hit, so you gotta take risk and and jump on the oppurtunities given you, otherwise the other fighter will exploit his oppurtunities if you don't. Margarito can be slowed, whether Mosley has the stamina and endurance to do it remains to be seen, but I feel he will learn from Cottos mistakes and execute the correct game plan. If you don't knock Margarito out then what? You're right Mosley is a slugger, a smart slugger, and a good body technician. I'll give Tony a brawler's chance. It won't be predicated on his boxing skills, but more or less on father time running out on Mosley. It could happen, I wanna see the contract signed and sealed before I get too gung ho... Margarito just pulled out of a fight with Clottey, so let's hope he doesn't change his mind with this one.

Heyzel, you right, the game plan we'll be to get off first, and be elusive, but get some body work done at the same time. Fuck it, hold if he has to, Frustrate Antonio as much as possible Mosley aint scared to scrap and get hit, as long as he can get in his licks too. If Mosley gets old over night , that will be Margaritos only key to victory.

T-Rip... You right In my honest unbiased opinion, I believe De La Hoya pulled off the victory in the 2nd fight with Mosley, but I aint the official judge. Just like I think Sweet Pea and Ike Quartey got robbed by De La Hoya. It happens.