Answers to Creationist Nonsense

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May 13, 2002
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#21
BLACKLUNG said:
1. There are less than 10,000 species of animals in the world, with taxonomical sub-categories for each.
Approximately 1.4 million species have been named with 7 - 10,000 new ones identified annually. These are approximately 5% prokaryotes and protists, 22% plants and fungi and the rest animals. (Biology: Life on Earth 6th Edition - Audersirk, Audersirk and Byers)

Considering that most of these species are smaller than the size of a dog, one could easily fit two of each kind with room left over for the larger creatures like dinosaurs. The ark, according to the specifications given in Genesis, was approximately 1.5 million cubic feet large, which could easily and comfortably accomodate all the species (less than 20,000 actual animals),
The ark's exact measurements were 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits hight (440 x 73 x 44ft.) Your approximation is close...yet, this still is nowhere near enough room for all the species needed to board.

Remember, Noah wouldn't have to take a lion and a tiger and a panther, he would merely have to take the archetype feline that was in existence at that time from which all successive feline sub-categories would arise. This is not evolution.
Which it would take much more than a couple of thousand years to give us the vast diversity in the felines alone.

2.The world flooded in two ways: the vapor canopy that surrounded the earth and protected people from harmful UV rays had a high moisture content. The clouds you see today are merely remnants of this massive vapor canopy that once existed. Through some drastic change in climate (or maybe a pole shift) the vapor canopy disappated into rain, while concurrently all of the undeground water (waters of the deep) sprang forth from fissures in the earth, causing the flood. Prior to the flood, there were no oceans or large bodies of water on the surface of the earth.
The vapor canopy idea is ridiculous in that it would have cooked (literally) everything on the surface of the earth like a pressure cooker.
"How could an atmosphere almost 100% water vapor not condense? The temperature would have to be raised to the point where the partial pressure of water equals 900 atmospheres, i.e. the boiling point at that pressure. So we find Noah et al. living in a 13,000psi boiler. Is this credible? http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/canopy.html"
"To account for Deluge waters, some creationists propose that before the Flood the earth was surrounded by a canopy of water vapor. This basic idea was proposed in 1874 by Issac Newton Vail, a Quaker Bible-scientist. Vail suggested that planets evolve through a ringed stage (like Saturn) to a canopied stage (like Jupiter) to a final earthlike condition. Modern creationists throw out Vail's evolution and keep his canopy. But none have ever shown how a canopy containing enough water to flood the earth could be stable or how the earth's creatures could survive the incredible atmospheric pressure it would cause.("The Evolution of Bible-science"- Robert J. Schadewald;Scientists Confront Creationism"
 
May 13, 2002
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#22
First- the global flood supposedly (Scripturally) covered the planet,and Mount Everest is 8,848 meters tall. The diameter of the earth at the equator, on the other hand, is 12,756.8 km. All we have to do is calculate the volume of water to fill a sphere with a radius of the Earth + Mount Everest; then we subtract the volume of a sphere with a radius of the Earth. Now, I know this won't yield a perfect result, because the Earth isn't a perfect sphere, but it will serve to give a general idea about the amounts involved.

So, here are the calculations:

First, Everest

V= 4/3 * pi * r cubed
= 4/3 * pi * 6387.248 km cubed
= 1.09151 x 10 to the 12 cubic kilometres (1.09151x102 km3)

Now, the Earth at sea level

V = 4/3 * pi * r cubed
= 4/3 * pi * 6378.4 km cubed
= 1.08698 x 10 to the 12 cubic kilometres (1.08698x1012 km3)

The difference between these two figures is the amount of water needed to just cover the Earth:

4.525 x 10 to the ninth cubic kilometres (4.525x1009 km3) Or, to put into a more sensible number, 4,525,000,000,000 cubic kilometres

This is one helluva lot of water.

For those who think it might come from the polar ice caps, please don't forget that water is more dense than ice, and thus that the volume of ice present in those ice caps would have to be more than the volume of water necessary.

Some interesting physical effects of all that water, too. How much weight do you think that is? Well, water at STP weighs in at 1 gram/cubic centimetre (by definition)...so,

4.252x1009 km3 of water,
X 106 (= cubic meters),
X 106 (= cubic centimetres),
X 1 g/cm3 (= grams),
X 10-3 (= kilograms),
(turn the crank)
equals 4.525E+21 kg.

Ever wonder what the effects of that much weight would be? Well, many times in the near past (i.e., the Pleistocene), continental ice sheets covered many of the northern states and most all of Canada. For the sake of argument, let's call the area covered by the Wisconsinian advance (the latest and greatest) was 10,000,000,000 (ten million) km2, by an average thickness of 1 km of ice (a good estimate...it was thicker in some areas [the zones of accumulation] and much thinner elsewhere [at the ablating edges]). Now, 1.00x1007 km2 X 1 km thickness equals 1.00E+07 km3 of ice.

Now, remember earlier that we noted that it would take 4.525x1009 km3 of water for the flood? Well, looking at the Wisconsinian glaciation, all that ice (which is frozen water, remember?) would be precisely 0.222% [...do the math](that's zero decimal two hundred twenty two thousandths) percent of the water needed for the flood.

Well, the Wisconsinian glacial stade ended about 25,000 YBP (years before present), as compared for the approximately supposedly 4,000 YBP flood event.

Due to these late Pleistocene glaciations (some 21,000 years preceding the supposed flood), the mass of the ice has actually depressed the crust of the Earth. That crust, now that the ice is gone, is slowly rising (called glacial rebound); and this rebound can be measured, in places (like northern Wisconsin), in centimetres/year. Sea level was also lowered some 10's of meters due to the very finite amount of water in the Earth's hydrosphere being locked up in glacial ice sheets (geologists call this glacioeustacy).

Now, glacial rebound can only be measured, obviously, in glaciated terranes, i.e., the Sahara is not rebounding as it was not glaciated during the Pleistocene. This lack of rebound is noted by laser ranged interferometery and satellite geodesy [so there], as well as by geomorphology. Glacial striae on bedrock, eskers, tills, moraines, rouche moutenees, drumlins, kame and kettle topography, fjords, deranged fluvial drainage and erratic blocks all betray a glacier's passage. Needless to say, these geomorphological expressions are not found everywhere on Earth (for instance, like the Sahara). Therefore, although extensive, the glaciers were a local (not global) is scale. Yet, at only 0.222% the size of the supposed flood, they have had a PROFOUND and EASILY recognisable and measurable effects on the lands.

Yet, the supposed flood of Noah, supposedly global in extent, supposedly much more recent, and supposedly orders of magnitude larger in scale; has exactly zero measurable effects and zero evidence for it's occurrence.

Further, Mount Everest extends through 2/3 of the Earth's atmosphere. Since two forms of matter can't occupy the same space, we have an additional problem with the atmosphere. Its current boundary marks the point at which gasses of the atmosphere can escape the Earth's gravitational field. Even allowing for partial dissolving of the atmosphere into our huge ocean, we'd lose the vast majority of our atmosphere as it is raised some 5.155 km higher by the rising flood waters; and it boils off into space.

Yet, we still have a quite thick and nicely breathable atmosphere. In fact, ice cores from Antarctica (as well as deep-sea sediment cores) which can be geochemically tested for paleoatmospheric constituents and relative gas ratios; and these records extend well back into the Pleistocene, far more than the supposed 4,000 YBP flood event. Strange that this major loss of atmosphere, atmospheric fractionation (lighter gasses (oxygen, nitrogen, fluorine, neon, etc.) would have boiled off first in the flood-water rising scenario, enriching what remained with heavier gasses (argon, krypton, xenon, radon, etc.)), and massive extinctions from such global upheavals are totally unevidenced in these cores.

Even further, let us take a realistic and dispassionate look at the other claims relating to global flooding and other such biblical nonsense.

Particularly, in order to flood the Earth to the Genesis requisite depth of 10 cubits (~15' or 5 m.) above the summit of Mt. Ararat (16,900' or 5,151 m AMSL), it would obviously require a water depth of 16,915' (5,155.7 m), or over three miles above mean sea level. In order to accomplish this little task, it would require the previously noted additional 4.525 x 109 km3 of water to flood the Earth to this depth. The Earth's present hydrosphere (the sum total of all waters in, on and above the Earth) totals only 1.37 x 109 km3. Where would this additional 4.525 x 109 km3 of water come from? It cannot come from water vapour (i.e., clouds) because the atmospheric pressure would be 840 times greater than standard pressure of the atmosphere today. Further, the latent heat released when the vapour condenses into liquid water would be enough to raise the temperature of the Earth's atmosphere to approximately 3,570 C (6,460 F).

Someone, who shall properly remain anonymous, suggested that all the water needed to flood the Earth existed as liquid water surrounding the globe (i.e., a "vapour canopy"). This, of course, it staggeringly stupid. What is keeping that much water from falling to the Earth? There is a little property called gravity that would cause it to fall.

Let's look into that from a physical standpoint. To flood the Earth, we have already seen that it would require 4.252 x 109 km3 of water with a mass of 4.525 x 1021 kg. When this amount of water is floating about the Earth's surface, it stored an enormous amount of potential energy, which is converted to kinetic energy when it falls, which, in turn, is converted to heat upon impact with the Earth. The amount of heat released is immense:

Potential energy: E=M*g*H, where
M = mass of water,
g = gravitational constant and,
H = height of water above surface.

Now, going with the Genesis version of the Noachian Deluge as lasting 40 days and nights, the amount of mass falling to Earth each day is 4.525 x 1021 kg/40 24 hr. periods. This equals 1.10675 x 1020 kilograms daily. Using H as 10 miles (16,000 meters), the energy released each day is 1.73584 x 1025 joules. The amount of energy the Earth would have to radiate per m2/sec is energy divided by surface area of the Earth times number of seconds in one day. That is: e = 1.735384 x 1025/(4*3.14159* ((6386)2*86,400)) = 391,935.0958 j/m2/s.

Currently, the Earth radiates energy at the rate of approximately 215 joules/m2/sec and the average temperature is 280 K. Using the Stefan- Boltzman 4'th power law to calculate the increase in temperature:

E (increase)/E (normal) = T (increase)/T4 (normal)

E (normal) = 215 E (increase) = 391,935.0958 T (normal) = 280.

Turn the crank, and T (increase) equals 1800 K.

The temperature would thusly rise 1800 K, or 1,526.84 C (that's 2,780.33 F...lead melts at 880 F...ed note). It would be highly unlikely that anything short of fused quartz would survive such an onslaught. Also, the water level would have to rise at an average rate of 5.5 inches/min; and in 13 minutes would be in excess of 6' deep.

Finally, at 1800 K water would not exist as liquid.

From: Marty Leipzig


It is quite clear that a Biblical Flood is and was quite impossible. Only fools and those shackled by dogma would insist otherwise.
 
May 13, 2002
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#23
miggidy said:
Hey 2-0,

Remember that genetic science has just discovered that human and dogg DNA is 75% the same.
Has science figured out who fucked who yet?
Was it the monkey or was it the dog?

Personally I think it's easier for a monkey to fuck a dog.
Plus it would look hella funny LOL!
Come on Miggidy, your better then this! Think about what you said for one minute, ok? If science has just discovered that human and dogg DNA is 75% the same, this only further shows that Evolution is correct.
 
Jul 24, 2002
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#27
Hey, you ever signed up to recieve Alex Jone's monthly news letter? I've gotten a couple, I guess he's sending them to me cuz I bought a couple of videos from him.

Pretty interesting info. You might want to sign up, it's an actual news letter and not e-mail.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#28
science and hard evidence will slowly and surely kill off creationists and their close minded simple stories about how everything came to be. there is a reason that you people arent astrophysicists and astronomers, its because youve never been to college to learn about it, these scientists dont waste their time with religion for a reason, the real answers are out there and they constantly search for them. its really fucking amazing how smart these people are and the shit they find out after decades of study, to simply shove off hard proof and a lifes work over a story about a guy basically flipping on a light switch and BOOM there it is...
 
May 13, 2002
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#29
miggidy said:
Hey, you ever signed up to recieve Alex Jone's monthly news letter? I've gotten a couple, I guess he's sending them to me cuz I bought a couple of videos from him.

Pretty interesting info. You might want to sign up, it's an actual news letter and not e-mail.
No, I never signed up. I think Alex's mind is in the right place, but at times he is WAY to extreme. I thought the 9/11 Road to Tyranny was good, but I recently say "The Bohemian Grove" and was HIGHLY disappointed. Now, I read rumors about what goes on here and supposedly Alex unveiled the truth by sneaking into this "ceremony." He claims there were Satanic rituals going on, but what I saw on the video was a bit strange, but appeared to be nothing more then old men watching a play.

Oh, what was the other video you purchased?
 
Jul 24, 2002
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#30
KrypticFlowz said:
science and hard evidence will slowly and surely kill off creationists and their close minded simple stories about how everything came to be. there is a reason that you people arent astrophysicists and astronomers, its because youve never been to college to learn about it, these scientists dont waste their time with religion for a reason, the real answers are out there and they constantly search for them. its really fucking amazing how smart these people are and the shit they find out after decades of study, to simply shove off hard proof and a lifes work over a story about a guy basically flipping on a light switch and BOOM there it is...
Say that to Newton....
 
Jul 24, 2002
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#31
2-0-Sixx said:
No, I never signed up. I think Alex's mind is in the right place, but at times he is WAY to extreme. I thought the 9/11 Road to Tyranny was good, but I recently say "The Bohemian Grove" and was HIGHLY disappointed. Now, I read rumors about what goes on here and supposedly Alex unveiled the truth by sneaking into this "ceremony." He claims there were Satanic rituals going on, but what I saw on the video was a bit strange, but appeared to be nothing more then old men watching a play.

Oh, what was the other video you purchased?
It was the Bohemian Grove video LOL!
All it showed was Masonic shit....

Anyways, I feel you. His shit is a bit far fetched.
At times I think that someone's feeding him misinformation.
Think about it, don't you think the CIA would've shut him down if he's really exposing the elite?
 
May 13, 2002
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#32
miggidy said:
It was the Bohemian Grove video LOL!
All it showed was Masonic shit....

Anyways, I feel you. His shit is a bit far fetched.
At times I think that someone's feeding him misinformation.
Think about it, don't you think the CIA would've shut him down if he's really exposing the elite?
Yeah, a lot of his shit is tough to swallow, but he has been doing a damn good job exposing the "Patriot Act" and "Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations Act" which is a substitue for "the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 " AKA "The Patriot Act II"


P.S
Man, I saw that fight on Saturday, I was pissed! Roy Jones was getting beat!!! Fucking judges!
 
Jul 24, 2002
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#33
^^^^
You think you was mad? I dropped $150 on Tarver.
I ain't mad though, Tarver could've easily finished him off but he wouldn't listen to Buddy's instructions.


I hear you on Alex Jones arguments.
He might be another William Cooper ya know?
Hide the most important shit with a bunch of bullshit to keep the Feds off his back.