A debate we're having in my multicultural class
- Thread starter I. Cold
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Sorry, man, but this paragraph stood out to me too when I first read your post. Other dude didn't have to put emphasis on something that wasn't there, because you did it for him. Most obviously, THE CAPITAL LETTERS. Less obvious was referring to her ethnicity, education, and where she grew up.
It seems as if you are impressed that a young, black woman from the ghetto could be so intelligent and driven, or maybe just women in general. It's left open to interpretation, so, while you don't have to explain yourself to anyone here, maybe you should.
It seems as if you are impressed that a young, black woman from the ghetto could be so intelligent and driven, or maybe just women in general. It's left open to interpretation, so, while you don't have to explain yourself to anyone here, maybe you should.
lol
No, I don't have to explain myself. Especially since you have no idea what race I am.
But let me break it down.
There's a reason I brought up the fact that she's black. And there's a reason I brought up the fact that she's intelligent. Those reasons have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with each other. If YOU looked too deeply into that, that's on you, man. If any one is trying to make a racially driven connection between the two, it's you. If you can't comprehend the reason I brought up the fact that she's intelligent and if you can't comprehend the reason I brought up the fact that she's black without drawing some racially driven correlation between the two, I dunno what else to tell ya other than the fact that you're LOOKING for shit that aint there.
Her intelligence is relevant because her opinion is included in my thread. The same reason I mentioned her race. If it was a white woman, wouldn't you be looking at this entire topic with an entirely different perspective? You'd probably think "why would a white woman want to spark racial debate in a class full of white people?" or, more importantly "why would a white woman want to talk about the N word and wear "abolish the N word" shirts?"
You understand my intentions now?
No, I don't have to explain myself. Especially since you have no idea what race I am.
But let me break it down.
There's a reason I brought up the fact that she's black. And there's a reason I brought up the fact that she's intelligent. Those reasons have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with each other. If YOU looked too deeply into that, that's on you, man. If any one is trying to make a racially driven connection between the two, it's you. If you can't comprehend the reason I brought up the fact that she's intelligent and if you can't comprehend the reason I brought up the fact that she's black without drawing some racially driven correlation between the two, I dunno what else to tell ya other than the fact that you're LOOKING for shit that aint there.
Her intelligence is relevant because her opinion is included in my thread. The same reason I mentioned her race. If it was a white woman, wouldn't you be looking at this entire topic with an entirely different perspective? You'd probably think "why would a white woman want to spark racial debate in a class full of white people?" or, more importantly "why would a white woman want to talk about the N word and wear "abolish the N word" shirts?"
You understand my intentions now?
You're right I don't know what race you are. And, this is even more reason for you to believe that my perception of your post was as objective as possible.:dead: And, by the way, even if you were black, that wouldn't make your opinion on the use of the n-word more valid to me. There are black peoples on both sides of the argument, and it's all about logic and purpose to me.
Yet you placed those descriptions of her in the same paragraph, by itself.
Don't try to spin this one so it's pointing at me partner. My perception could very well have been a misinterpretation, and I kept my mouth shut (so to speak) UNTIL someone else brought it up and then you tried to clown him, rather than logically explain yourself. Something you think is silly and trivial may very well be a logical misinterpretation or it could be a dead on fucking call. You, not me, are the one who can't seem to comprehend how that is possible, because you find it insulting that someone could use your words to paint you in a rascist or sexist light. Next time, go back and re-read your shit before you just run off and clown folks.
And this is where your argument gets thin, son. Aside from her wearing a t-shirt you said:
So, don't tell us that you only brought up your teacher because her opinion is included, because it simply isn't. Your post is mostly you paraphrasing a debate between 'you' (the opinionated hero of the story) against 'them' (the middle to upper class suburban white kids). Her opinion is not included, so describing her really doesn't fucking matter. More on this after the next quote.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. You stated you were having a debate on the n-word in a multicultural class. It matters very little to me what color or sex of the teacher. As you said, the teacher does not give her opinion, simply those of other scholars, which what most good teachers will do anyways, especially in a class where the students need to explore their own identities and social constructions.
Um, how's about because she's the teacher of a multicultural class?
See, some people think they are completely devoid of racism and see everyone in a grand veil of equality. Now, they ARE doing their best to think and live in a non-discriminatory manner, but in actuality they do harbor some very latent and inconspicously rascist perceptions. When they get caught up in it because of something they said, blame is either placed on the person who calls them on it OR they say that it came out the wrong way.
Either way, if this was you, then how the fuck would you know until someone pointed it out?
Yet you placed those descriptions of her in the same paragraph, by itself.
Don't try to spin this one so it's pointing at me partner. My perception could very well have been a misinterpretation, and I kept my mouth shut (so to speak) UNTIL someone else brought it up and then you tried to clown him, rather than logically explain yourself. Something you think is silly and trivial may very well be a logical misinterpretation or it could be a dead on fucking call. You, not me, are the one who can't seem to comprehend how that is possible, because you find it insulting that someone could use your words to paint you in a rascist or sexist light. Next time, go back and re-read your shit before you just run off and clown folks.
And this is where your argument gets thin, son. Aside from her wearing a t-shirt you said:
So, don't tell us that you only brought up your teacher because her opinion is included, because it simply isn't. Your post is mostly you paraphrasing a debate between 'you' (the opinionated hero of the story) against 'them' (the middle to upper class suburban white kids). Her opinion is not included, so describing her really doesn't fucking matter. More on this after the next quote.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. You stated you were having a debate on the n-word in a multicultural class. It matters very little to me what color or sex of the teacher. As you said, the teacher does not give her opinion, simply those of other scholars, which what most good teachers will do anyways, especially in a class where the students need to explore their own identities and social constructions.
Um, how's about because she's the teacher of a multicultural class?
See, some people think they are completely devoid of racism and see everyone in a grand veil of equality. Now, they ARE doing their best to think and live in a non-discriminatory manner, but in actuality they do harbor some very latent and inconspicously rascist perceptions. When they get caught up in it because of something they said, blame is either placed on the person who calls them on it OR they say that it came out the wrong way.
Either way, if this was you, then how the fuck would you know until someone pointed it out?
Fair enough
Where else am I gonna place them? One before the debate and one after? Would that make any sense?
Don't tell me not to spin this on you when you are the one who is passing judgement on ME to begin with.. and with very little evidence might I add. As far you coming to the rescue of that other dude I "clowned", I don't know what to say about that other than the fact that I didn't clown him. I just didn't feel like going completely offtopic and having this thread pointed back at me, insinuating that I made a racial freudian slip up. Which you two totally misinterpreted.
I do, however, see how you can think that.. but again, man, you're looking too deeply into my comments.
My teacher's opinion has just as much to do with the topic as the debate I had with my class. The only irrelevant fact I brought up was the fact that she doesn't voice her opinion often. and the reason I brought THAT fact up was so people would know that the class has a tendency to jump on whatever side of the fence she is on.
Does an intelligent, educated person's opinion over a matter such as this supercede the opinion of someone who isn't intelligent or educated? In my opinion, it most definitely does. And being that her opinion is in fact different that ours (mine and the people that replied to my post), wouldn't that make it relevant?
I disagree. Simple as that. Subject matter such as this, I think the race of the teacher does matter. Am I saying a white teacher doesn't have the right to have an opinion on something like this? No. However, I think black people have leverage over this topic moreso than white people. So her being black is totally relevant to this topic. The ENTIRE atmosphere of the classroom would be different if she was white! And that's a fact! Students wouldn't be scared to voice their true opinion. There wouldn't be as much tension in the class. There wouldn't be this CONSTANT agreeance with whatever the teacher believes.
So not only are you implying that I have racist tendencies, but that I'm completely ignorant of them. Right? How bout you? Do you have any?
All people have racist tendencies. I'm well aware of this. Why you feel the need to undermine my intelligence about this subject matter is beyond me. Especially since you know pretty much nothing about me other than the fact that I'm taking a multicultural class. I just posted an article that talks EXACTLY about this very argument we're having. Upacking the Invisible Knapsack. Do a search for it. Read it.
I know you're a teacher. I'll be one too in about 13 months. I'm well aware of racism in america, friend, you don't gotta school me on that. I've probably taken the same classes as you, so don't think you're education towers above mine.
Where else am I gonna place them? One before the debate and one after? Would that make any sense?
Don't tell me not to spin this on you when you are the one who is passing judgement on ME to begin with.. and with very little evidence might I add. As far you coming to the rescue of that other dude I "clowned", I don't know what to say about that other than the fact that I didn't clown him. I just didn't feel like going completely offtopic and having this thread pointed back at me, insinuating that I made a racial freudian slip up. Which you two totally misinterpreted.
I do, however, see how you can think that.. but again, man, you're looking too deeply into my comments.
My teacher's opinion has just as much to do with the topic as the debate I had with my class. The only irrelevant fact I brought up was the fact that she doesn't voice her opinion often. and the reason I brought THAT fact up was so people would know that the class has a tendency to jump on whatever side of the fence she is on.
Does an intelligent, educated person's opinion over a matter such as this supercede the opinion of someone who isn't intelligent or educated? In my opinion, it most definitely does. And being that her opinion is in fact different that ours (mine and the people that replied to my post), wouldn't that make it relevant?
I disagree. Simple as that. Subject matter such as this, I think the race of the teacher does matter. Am I saying a white teacher doesn't have the right to have an opinion on something like this? No. However, I think black people have leverage over this topic moreso than white people. So her being black is totally relevant to this topic. The ENTIRE atmosphere of the classroom would be different if she was white! And that's a fact! Students wouldn't be scared to voice their true opinion. There wouldn't be as much tension in the class. There wouldn't be this CONSTANT agreeance with whatever the teacher believes.
So not only are you implying that I have racist tendencies, but that I'm completely ignorant of them. Right? How bout you? Do you have any?
All people have racist tendencies. I'm well aware of this. Why you feel the need to undermine my intelligence about this subject matter is beyond me. Especially since you know pretty much nothing about me other than the fact that I'm taking a multicultural class. I just posted an article that talks EXACTLY about this very argument we're having. Upacking the Invisible Knapsack. Do a search for it. Read it.
I know you're a teacher. I'll be one too in about 13 months. I'm well aware of racism in america, friend, you don't gotta school me on that. I've probably taken the same classes as you, so don't think you're education towers above mine.
Both sides actually have valid arguments, however in a debate it is often useful (and to your advatange) to point out a persons prestige and accomplishments. When dealing with race relations would you prefer to read the writings of a person holding a masters, or would you prefer to read something from a third grade drop out?
When I read the description something else popped up in my head. I wanted to know how his teacher looked and if she is single (btw, is she single?) I also saw it as providing us with some type of insight, or better yet, something that gave us a "feel" of the entire environment and the subject matter. However, I DO see how others could have spun it to make you out to be David Duke Jr, but I didn't look at it like that. Also, I agree that the atmosphere of the classroom WOULD have changed if she were white and would change dramatically if she were white and the majority were black. In addition, the constant agreeance is something to ponder. IMHO, most people WILL agree with an authority figure or person with a higher master role because they have no true opinion of their own (no individuality.) It's almost like "follow the leader" or "lets agree with teacher so we can get good grades", and I'm a student myself and I see what he is talking about whenever I have class.
But besides all that, I take my hat off to both you cats for getting in the trenches and going the teachers route. We need more teachers in this world, but not only that, we need more teachers who are able to open dialog and make a connection with the students. Also, teachers who are willing to learn FROM the students and not just teach them are also a good thing.
When I read the description something else popped up in my head. I wanted to know how his teacher looked and if she is single (btw, is she single?) I also saw it as providing us with some type of insight, or better yet, something that gave us a "feel" of the entire environment and the subject matter. However, I DO see how others could have spun it to make you out to be David Duke Jr, but I didn't look at it like that. Also, I agree that the atmosphere of the classroom WOULD have changed if she were white and would change dramatically if she were white and the majority were black. In addition, the constant agreeance is something to ponder. IMHO, most people WILL agree with an authority figure or person with a higher master role because they have no true opinion of their own (no individuality.) It's almost like "follow the leader" or "lets agree with teacher so we can get good grades", and I'm a student myself and I see what he is talking about whenever I have class.
But besides all that, I take my hat off to both you cats for getting in the trenches and going the teachers route. We need more teachers in this world, but not only that, we need more teachers who are able to open dialog and make a connection with the students. Also, teachers who are willing to learn FROM the students and not just teach them are also a good thing.
Again, you didn't have o post a description of her at all. The debate was about the abolishment of the n-word, and the teacher, nor the ethnic composition of the class is of any vital importance. You made the post to get our thoughts and all those descriptions are superflous and unnecessary. It doesn't bother me that you posted them, but we wouldn't even be going on this tangent if it werent for their existence.
And, no you can't spin this on me for two simple reasons, 1) I wasn't the one who posted the shit, and 2) I am not passing judgement on you. Please point out where in my post that you think I am. I am merely elaborating on the possibilities that other dude was speculating on.
As a matter of fact, I said this:
I clearly admit that the perception of your words could have been a misinterpretation, so explain to me where it is that I flat out call you a rascist.
No rescue, it just that dude made his observation jokingly, and you snapped back jokingly, yet failed to logically address where he was coming from because you felt you could easily dismiss his perception. Also, you possibly having rascist tendencies is not offtopic if you're telling us about a racial argument you're having in a multicultural class.
Fair enough.
Again, it may seem relevant to you, but not for the purpose of this thread. All you wanted was our opinions on the n-word, so why is all the extra shit necessary? You aren't asking us for our opinion on your class are you?
I addressed this above.
My whole post is informative and HYPOTHETICAL. I merely point out that you COULD have latent rascist tendencies. Nowhere in my post can you point out where I flat out pin this on you. ONly the possibilities. Also, my tendencies are not important yet, I didn't post the thread. I continue to explore my rascist tendencies whenever I am presented with the possibility.
Now, you are doing exactly what you accuse me of, and that's reading too much in my words. How in the world you gather that I think my education towers over yours is beyond me, and if you could make another poor attempt at an explanation, then please do so. But, since you brought it up, Imma let you know, my degree is in Mathematics with a minor in Ethnic Studies, and my masters is in Math Education.
Don't tell me about the Invisible Knapsack, because I read it shortly after it came out, which was in 1990. Don't throw some shit I read over a decade ago at me and think you're gonna get more ground to stand on.
Understand I was merely pointing out the possibilities and not straight up accusing you of shit and then go from there.
And, no you can't spin this on me for two simple reasons, 1) I wasn't the one who posted the shit, and 2) I am not passing judgement on you. Please point out where in my post that you think I am. I am merely elaborating on the possibilities that other dude was speculating on.
As a matter of fact, I said this:
I clearly admit that the perception of your words could have been a misinterpretation, so explain to me where it is that I flat out call you a rascist.
No rescue, it just that dude made his observation jokingly, and you snapped back jokingly, yet failed to logically address where he was coming from because you felt you could easily dismiss his perception. Also, you possibly having rascist tendencies is not offtopic if you're telling us about a racial argument you're having in a multicultural class.
Fair enough.
Again, it may seem relevant to you, but not for the purpose of this thread. All you wanted was our opinions on the n-word, so why is all the extra shit necessary? You aren't asking us for our opinion on your class are you?
I addressed this above.
My whole post is informative and HYPOTHETICAL. I merely point out that you COULD have latent rascist tendencies. Nowhere in my post can you point out where I flat out pin this on you. ONly the possibilities. Also, my tendencies are not important yet, I didn't post the thread. I continue to explore my rascist tendencies whenever I am presented with the possibility.
Now, you are doing exactly what you accuse me of, and that's reading too much in my words. How in the world you gather that I think my education towers over yours is beyond me, and if you could make another poor attempt at an explanation, then please do so. But, since you brought it up, Imma let you know, my degree is in Mathematics with a minor in Ethnic Studies, and my masters is in Math Education.
Don't tell me about the Invisible Knapsack, because I read it shortly after it came out, which was in 1990. Don't throw some shit I read over a decade ago at me and think you're gonna get more ground to stand on.
Understand I was merely pointing out the possibilities and not straight up accusing you of shit and then go from there.
What does it matter if I gave a description? I mean, really.. I wasn't expecting this to be viewed under a microscope. People got SLIGHTLY off topic from time to time. Doesn't mean I'm putting down an entire race of people.
It was the vibe I picked up. Just like you picked up the vibe that I made a subconscious racial statement. Otherwise, why else would you call me out on it?
Okay.
Like I said, I didn't want the thread to go offtopic.
I know I have racist tendencies. Nothing profound though. All I'm saying, is that what I posted here, didn't have racist tendencies.
Yes. I explained why I said what I said. What else do you want me to say? It really isn't all that important if I get slightly off topic. It happens, man. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
I got caught up in the moment I guess. I think the "re-read what you said" had a condescending undertone.
I brought up your profession simply to point out the fact that we aren't completely different. For the most part, you don't see ignorant, racist teachers in public schools anymore.
So I can't recommend a piece if you've already read it. How was I suppose to know you've read it? It may have been released a decade ago (I thought it was 94 actually), but that doesn't mean it's not still relevant today. I said it had to do with what we're arguing about. Does it not? Wasn't trying to get more ground. I coinsidently posted it a week, week and a half ago on this forum.. So, I thought I'd bring it up.
It was the vibe I picked up. Just like you picked up the vibe that I made a subconscious racial statement. Otherwise, why else would you call me out on it?
Okay.
Like I said, I didn't want the thread to go offtopic.
I know I have racist tendencies. Nothing profound though. All I'm saying, is that what I posted here, didn't have racist tendencies.
Yes. I explained why I said what I said. What else do you want me to say? It really isn't all that important if I get slightly off topic. It happens, man. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
I got caught up in the moment I guess. I think the "re-read what you said" had a condescending undertone.
I brought up your profession simply to point out the fact that we aren't completely different. For the most part, you don't see ignorant, racist teachers in public schools anymore.
So I can't recommend a piece if you've already read it. How was I suppose to know you've read it? It may have been released a decade ago (I thought it was 94 actually), but that doesn't mean it's not still relevant today. I said it had to do with what we're arguing about. Does it not? Wasn't trying to get more ground. I coinsidently posted it a week, week and a half ago on this forum.. So, I thought I'd bring it up.
