07/04/2008 Time For A New Declaration Of Independence And Call For Another Revolution
- Thread starter GrafsiccDesigns
- Start date
man you gotta realize what ignorance means.
people arent stupid for any other reason than cuz they are ignorant, and you continually stating that you are superior to them continually shows how ignorant you truly are and doesnt place u in any position to call anybody stupid.
i mean you talk about how peoples perceptions play a role in what they see, but yet you cant distinguish your own definitions of concepts such as "ignorance" as you base "knowledge" according to your own priorities in your own self created reality.
do you not distinguish your perception from a self created reality with self created priorities?
if not do you not see the relation between you seeing your perception as truth and them seeing theirs as truth, while you claim theirs is based on perception and yours isnt?
i mean honestly, its pretty simple, just observe the observer that is you.
people arent stupid for any other reason than cuz they are ignorant, and you continually stating that you are superior to them continually shows how ignorant you truly are and doesnt place u in any position to call anybody stupid.
i mean you talk about how peoples perceptions play a role in what they see, but yet you cant distinguish your own definitions of concepts such as "ignorance" as you base "knowledge" according to your own priorities in your own self created reality.
do you not distinguish your perception from a self created reality with self created priorities?
if not do you not see the relation between you seeing your perception as truth and them seeing theirs as truth, while you claim theirs is based on perception and yours isnt?
i mean honestly, its pretty simple, just observe the observer that is you.
I will try to explain a little bit better what I mean when I say human nature is the problem.
It is not that human nature is competitive as that of a wild animal, actually a lot of our so called morals come from our evolution long before we were aware of them. Whether they are encoded in our genes is a different subject (I think in their majority they are not), but the fact is that we are not as competitive in our nature as wild animals.
However this does not mean that we are not entirely ruled by our animal instincts and the main one that causes trouble is the instinct for reproduction. And I am not talking about the problem with overpopulation here.
The problem is that genes/genomes need to be propagated and this is the ultimate rule that all organisms obey - propagate your genes/genome, no matter what. In our case this causes all of our problems, because everybody wants to propagate their genes no matter the cost and all they do is aimed at that goal. And nobody understands it. Think about why people strive to make as much money as possible - from evolutionary perspective it has very little to do with their own well being, it is about their kids having a better chance. And this is why people do all the shady things they do to get more money - because in the evolutionary game there are no rules other than anything goes. Again, nobody realizes this but this is precisely the way things go.
It has actually occurred to me that one of our great problems as a species is the taboo we place on sex. As scandalous as it might seem, it is easy to see why there is a good chance that in a culture that views sex just as we view handshaking, and people were freely participating in sexual intercourse without any social limitations, there would be less of the problems mentioned above.
There is no inherently bad social system. But they all fail because they rest on the assumption that the people who make up the society will behave well. Which is never the case. Communism is not a bad system at all and it actually was a very attractive idea 100 years ago - equal distribution of wealth, cooperation of labor, social state, etc. - what's wrong with that? But it failed because it allowed for uncontrolled corruption and because it relied on people working as well and as much as they can without directly getting the benefits from their labor. Feudalism and monarchy - if the king is good and does his job well, it's a very good system. First problem - what happens when he's not; second problem - with so much power into one man's hands it becomes also very easy to take it from him, so this creates inherent instability (a problem very effectively handled by the Ottoman empire by having a tradition that every new sultan immediately kills all his male relatives). Capitalism and democracy - very nice in words but it allows for the uncontrollable accumulation of wealth and power into the hands of relatively few, and it also has no working mechanism for preventing corruption. When these two trends combine you can only expect bad things. And when you add the fact that democracy can work only where people are educated and knowledgeable enough for that purpose, you see why it has very little chance for succeeding too. And so on, and so on, you can continue with each and every social system.
Which brings me to my second problem with human nature. The only way for people to change their ways is to realize why they're behaving the way they do. Which, in turn, can only happen if they think rationally, are willing to educate themselves about what they really, how they came into existence and what their place in the universe is. This can never happen because by nature human beings are superstitious and irrational and it is very hard to reverse them into being thoughtful and rational persons. So hard, that it usually takes about 20 years of careful conditioning and education to achieve that goal and yet few of the people that go through these 20 years ever make it. And to create the working ideal society you need all people to overcome the instincts they're born with, which is absolutely impossible, if it is so hard to get even a tiny percentage of them to change.
It is not that human nature is competitive as that of a wild animal, actually a lot of our so called morals come from our evolution long before we were aware of them. Whether they are encoded in our genes is a different subject (I think in their majority they are not), but the fact is that we are not as competitive in our nature as wild animals.
However this does not mean that we are not entirely ruled by our animal instincts and the main one that causes trouble is the instinct for reproduction. And I am not talking about the problem with overpopulation here.
The problem is that genes/genomes need to be propagated and this is the ultimate rule that all organisms obey - propagate your genes/genome, no matter what. In our case this causes all of our problems, because everybody wants to propagate their genes no matter the cost and all they do is aimed at that goal. And nobody understands it. Think about why people strive to make as much money as possible - from evolutionary perspective it has very little to do with their own well being, it is about their kids having a better chance. And this is why people do all the shady things they do to get more money - because in the evolutionary game there are no rules other than anything goes. Again, nobody realizes this but this is precisely the way things go.
It has actually occurred to me that one of our great problems as a species is the taboo we place on sex. As scandalous as it might seem, it is easy to see why there is a good chance that in a culture that views sex just as we view handshaking, and people were freely participating in sexual intercourse without any social limitations, there would be less of the problems mentioned above.
There is no inherently bad social system. But they all fail because they rest on the assumption that the people who make up the society will behave well. Which is never the case. Communism is not a bad system at all and it actually was a very attractive idea 100 years ago - equal distribution of wealth, cooperation of labor, social state, etc. - what's wrong with that? But it failed because it allowed for uncontrolled corruption and because it relied on people working as well and as much as they can without directly getting the benefits from their labor. Feudalism and monarchy - if the king is good and does his job well, it's a very good system. First problem - what happens when he's not; second problem - with so much power into one man's hands it becomes also very easy to take it from him, so this creates inherent instability (a problem very effectively handled by the Ottoman empire by having a tradition that every new sultan immediately kills all his male relatives). Capitalism and democracy - very nice in words but it allows for the uncontrollable accumulation of wealth and power into the hands of relatively few, and it also has no working mechanism for preventing corruption. When these two trends combine you can only expect bad things. And when you add the fact that democracy can work only where people are educated and knowledgeable enough for that purpose, you see why it has very little chance for succeeding too. And so on, and so on, you can continue with each and every social system.
Which brings me to my second problem with human nature. The only way for people to change their ways is to realize why they're behaving the way they do. Which, in turn, can only happen if they think rationally, are willing to educate themselves about what they really, how they came into existence and what their place in the universe is. This can never happen because by nature human beings are superstitious and irrational and it is very hard to reverse them into being thoughtful and rational persons. So hard, that it usually takes about 20 years of careful conditioning and education to achieve that goal and yet few of the people that go through these 20 years ever make it. And to create the working ideal society you need all people to overcome the instincts they're born with, which is absolutely impossible, if it is so hard to get even a tiny percentage of them to change.
no i refuse to accept that because its too simple and is basically meaningless and i know that there is a meaning to this life and world and that things do happen for a reason and that only some of us can realize this....
by your logic then you yourself are also ignorant for trying to explain what is your PERCEPTION like it is truth and certain but it may only be your perception and far from the truth....
so you can believe that everyones world is only what they make of it and based on perceptions but there is more to the whole picture than just that.....peoples perceptions are all for a reason and everything is already planned out and happens to that plan im sure of that already.....
you arent making sense, because i never stated that life didnt have a meaning, what i did imply is that your meaning is YOUR meaning, as those "stupids" have their own meanings.
you state that you believe things happen for a reason, but still you cant see how your selective attentiveness to what it is that occurs for a reason and what you dont even acknowledge occuring is being influenced by your subjective perception.
yes , by my logic i am also ignorant as we ALL are ignorant, as also by my logic, ignorance is very normal and not a bad thing. YOU are the one setting its value to dumb or anything negative.
if you read what i wrote you would realize that also according to my logic, your truth is your truth , as mine is too, as everybody elses.
yes my perception is based on perception, but my perception is that everything is based on perception . My perception isnt stating "life is suffering" or anything technical like yours is, but mine is saying that nothing is technical. Still its a perception, but a perception that only validates itself rather remains open for validation.
yes , everythjing is planned out and happens to that plan according to YOUR OWN justification, which again, varies from everybody elses.
i do know that there is the "absolute" external, but even facts are in the end registered subjectively, and end up meaning different things to different people.
get widdit
you state that you believe things happen for a reason, but still you cant see how your selective attentiveness to what it is that occurs for a reason and what you dont even acknowledge occuring is being influenced by your subjective perception.
yes , by my logic i am also ignorant as we ALL are ignorant, as also by my logic, ignorance is very normal and not a bad thing. YOU are the one setting its value to dumb or anything negative.
if you read what i wrote you would realize that also according to my logic, your truth is your truth , as mine is too, as everybody elses.
yes my perception is based on perception, but my perception is that everything is based on perception . My perception isnt stating "life is suffering" or anything technical like yours is, but mine is saying that nothing is technical. Still its a perception, but a perception that only validates itself rather remains open for validation.
yes , everythjing is planned out and happens to that plan according to YOUR OWN justification, which again, varies from everybody elses.
i do know that there is the "absolute" external, but even facts are in the end registered subjectively, and end up meaning different things to different people.
get widdit