THERES A REASON THE BOARDS ARE DEAD
- Thread starter Real 1
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Nope.
But hip-hop is the same way as a whole. As is metal. Or pop. Its not what you say, its how you say it. There are thousands upon thousands of rappers...so you can only say something original very few times, and at some point it will be copied or morphed into something else. Its no different than an author or a poet. Its not what is said...but how it is said that will captivate your audience. I mean shit...look at Bone Thugs when they first came out. Wasnt nobody spittin g shit like the were...it was unique at the time, but the content was nothing their founder, Eazy E, hadnt said a hundreds time prior.
But hip-hop is the same way as a whole. As is metal. Or pop. Its not what you say, its how you say it. There are thousands upon thousands of rappers...so you can only say something original very few times, and at some point it will be copied or morphed into something else. Its no different than an author or a poet. Its not what is said...but how it is said that will captivate your audience. I mean shit...look at Bone Thugs when they first came out. Wasnt nobody spittin g shit like the were...it was unique at the time, but the content was nothing their founder, Eazy E, hadnt said a hundreds time prior.
When bone thugs first came out they didn't sound anything like they did when they hooked up with Eazy. Check their material before they hooked up with Eazy.
As for Metal (I can't speak on pop) the emphasis of the music, nine times out of ten, is based on the riff, not the lyrics. So if you can't come with original shit there to hold their attention then you're fucked. But the LOYALTY metal fans have to metal artists is real as fuck. A doom metal fan won't be shaken by the current flavor of the month. A black metal fan won't be, a stoner metal fan won't be, etc. They all support the genre any way they can. Are bay rap fans LOYAL?
And when it comes to how people are saying shit, even then they aren't saying it differently. I don't care about what metaphor a cat is using, what double entrende he came up with, at the end of the day, people are going to follow shit because they saw someone else do it or said it was good, not because they really gave a fuck about how shit was said. Half the shit you have to be drunk or high to understand anyway.
There is a reason why Metallica is here to stay even though there are a billion bands who came and went. No matter how a new band sounds, and I'm speaking about metal here, they're going to reference the big four in some way and the music will show. Now take a look at bay rap music in general. How many times have you heard fans say, oh I can hear a bit of Short in him or I can hear some Khayree influences in his production and the person who they're talking about (the rapper or producer) actually mentions who the fan referenced?
As for Metal (I can't speak on pop) the emphasis of the music, nine times out of ten, is based on the riff, not the lyrics. So if you can't come with original shit there to hold their attention then you're fucked. But the LOYALTY metal fans have to metal artists is real as fuck. A doom metal fan won't be shaken by the current flavor of the month. A black metal fan won't be, a stoner metal fan won't be, etc. They all support the genre any way they can. Are bay rap fans LOYAL?
And when it comes to how people are saying shit, even then they aren't saying it differently. I don't care about what metaphor a cat is using, what double entrende he came up with, at the end of the day, people are going to follow shit because they saw someone else do it or said it was good, not because they really gave a fuck about how shit was said. Half the shit you have to be drunk or high to understand anyway.
There is a reason why Metallica is here to stay even though there are a billion bands who came and went. No matter how a new band sounds, and I'm speaking about metal here, they're going to reference the big four in some way and the music will show. Now take a look at bay rap music in general. How many times have you heard fans say, oh I can hear a bit of Short in him or I can hear some Khayree influences in his production and the person who they're talking about (the rapper or producer) actually mentions who the fan referenced?
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Right, but they were local at that point...Eazy E brought them to the forfront and their first national album was what you hear today, er, post 1993.
Thats not a fair comparison. Metallica is known worldwide by hundreds of millions of people...Khayree, well, isnt. The better comparison would be, who sounds like 2Pac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Nas, etc. About as many as metal bands that take after Metallica.
I do agree that it seems rap artists tend to stray towards "whats cool"...that is obvious. However, metal has done the same thing...sorta. There are about 20-30 different sub-genres of metal, a vast majority of them created within the last decade. Metal has been around since the late 60's. New bands will come out and have a similar sounds to a new genre becuase its fresh and it sells...and then they either disappear or mature to a more traditional sound over time.
Its an interesting topic because i really do feel hip-hop is such a unique case, mostly because its the "newest" genre of music. Therefore, its still finding its groove, so to speak. It also springs, for the most part, from a very specific demographic: inner city, monitory youth. I dont know of any major genre of music that is so specific to one demographic...and its usually represented in the music. Most other genres talk of love, heartbreak, angst, politics, etc. Hip-hop tells a 1st person story, mostly, of someone trying to get up and get out a better life.
Thats not a fair comparison. Metallica is known worldwide by hundreds of millions of people...Khayree, well, isnt. The better comparison would be, who sounds like 2Pac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Nas, etc. About as many as metal bands that take after Metallica.
I do agree that it seems rap artists tend to stray towards "whats cool"...that is obvious. However, metal has done the same thing...sorta. There are about 20-30 different sub-genres of metal, a vast majority of them created within the last decade. Metal has been around since the late 60's. New bands will come out and have a similar sounds to a new genre becuase its fresh and it sells...and then they either disappear or mature to a more traditional sound over time.
Its an interesting topic because i really do feel hip-hop is such a unique case, mostly because its the "newest" genre of music. Therefore, its still finding its groove, so to speak. It also springs, for the most part, from a very specific demographic: inner city, monitory youth. I dont know of any major genre of music that is so specific to one demographic...and its usually represented in the music. Most other genres talk of love, heartbreak, angst, politics, etc. Hip-hop tells a 1st person story, mostly, of someone trying to get up and get out a better life.
peoples music interests change as they grow up
now a days too many chiefs, not enough indians
now a days too many chiefs, not enough indians
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Point is they didn't sound that way when they first came out.
It's a fair comparison you just aren't looking at it from the right lens. The lens you should be looking at it from is the lens that they influenced bands and bands pay homage to them. So biggie, pac, nas, etc isn't relevant to what I'm talking about as I specifically said bay rap. Would any music fan say new Bay Area music is influenced by older Bay Area music and that their music reflects it? No. They'll say it sounds like everything else that is out there.
There are more sub genres than that. Many of them go back 10-20 years and yes it has been around for decades. However, a lot of bands keep their sound and have no need to go with a "traditional" sound. Shit, AIC doesn't have Layne Staley and the bassist died a few years ago yet they still have the AIC sound. Again, with bands you can hear the roots because bands have a reason to listen and study older music. 1. Because they want to learn how to play. 2. Because they want to cover. So how many bay artists are studying older bay music and implimenting what worked or what they find unique, in their product?
It's not the newest genre of music and it's been around since the late 70's. Probably before that if you consider Last Poets or Blow Fly to be rap. So no, it's not still finding its groove when it's been 40 years, has made people rich and is one of the most widely used, if not the most widely used, form of music when it comes to marketing and advertising goods.
Yes it springs from a specific demographic but that was in the past. Now you have lesbian rappers talking about murder, Japanese rappers talking about whatever it is they are talking about, Korean rappers, British rappers, etc. Not that it's anything wrong with that but rap just isn't getting up and getting a better life. Ice T spoke everything you just mentioned on his first album. Short rapped about the shit, ATL did, the list goes on and on. What people don't want to talk about, and I'm just going to lay it out there now, is the fascination people have with those who are struggling and the need some people have to live vicariously through other people but without the bullshit that comes with it.
That's a MAJOR problem in rap and it's one that hits Bay Area hardest real hard. It's all good, all fine and dandy and this guy or that guy is keeping it real, yet when shit hits the fan and people get bodied, it's "but it's only entertainment." No it's not, for some people this shit is LIFE and it's a means to put food on the table but "fans" don't see that shit.
It's a fair comparison you just aren't looking at it from the right lens. The lens you should be looking at it from is the lens that they influenced bands and bands pay homage to them. So biggie, pac, nas, etc isn't relevant to what I'm talking about as I specifically said bay rap. Would any music fan say new Bay Area music is influenced by older Bay Area music and that their music reflects it? No. They'll say it sounds like everything else that is out there.
There are more sub genres than that. Many of them go back 10-20 years and yes it has been around for decades. However, a lot of bands keep their sound and have no need to go with a "traditional" sound. Shit, AIC doesn't have Layne Staley and the bassist died a few years ago yet they still have the AIC sound. Again, with bands you can hear the roots because bands have a reason to listen and study older music. 1. Because they want to learn how to play. 2. Because they want to cover. So how many bay artists are studying older bay music and implimenting what worked or what they find unique, in their product?
It's not the newest genre of music and it's been around since the late 70's. Probably before that if you consider Last Poets or Blow Fly to be rap. So no, it's not still finding its groove when it's been 40 years, has made people rich and is one of the most widely used, if not the most widely used, form of music when it comes to marketing and advertising goods.
Yes it springs from a specific demographic but that was in the past. Now you have lesbian rappers talking about murder, Japanese rappers talking about whatever it is they are talking about, Korean rappers, British rappers, etc. Not that it's anything wrong with that but rap just isn't getting up and getting a better life. Ice T spoke everything you just mentioned on his first album. Short rapped about the shit, ATL did, the list goes on and on. What people don't want to talk about, and I'm just going to lay it out there now, is the fascination people have with those who are struggling and the need some people have to live vicariously through other people but without the bullshit that comes with it.
That's a MAJOR problem in rap and it's one that hits Bay Area hardest real hard. It's all good, all fine and dandy and this guy or that guy is keeping it real, yet when shit hits the fan and people get bodied, it's "but it's only entertainment." No it's not, for some people this shit is LIFE and it's a means to put food on the table but "fans" don't see that shit.
OK, but that is irrelevant to the argument.
Fair enough
I was being consrvative, and some arent "official" sub genres, only ones recognized by a handful of bands.
I was talking about newer bands, ones that started in the mid 2000's mostly.
See above.
Some? yes. But its impossible to say all bands. I have records from "one hit wonders", who have one sound the first record, and then a completely different sound the next.
Youre right, i forgot about electronica/techno/dubstep. Which, BTW, are rooted in hop-hop. But i still feel like hip-hop is finding its feet. Must my opinion.
I was speaking on US hip-hop, not the wanna be crap from over seas.
Thats hip-hop as a whole, not just the Bay. And that is my driving point of why its so unique: what other genre of music do people get shit on for "not keeping it real"? I mean, i guess a death metal band who are all mormons would be one, but still...noone is really going to give that big of shit. However, if rapper A says he shoots people and sells drugs, but its revealed that he is a chior boy....he may lose support depending on how big he is. The fans will turn on you.
Fair enough
I was being consrvative, and some arent "official" sub genres, only ones recognized by a handful of bands.
I was talking about newer bands, ones that started in the mid 2000's mostly.
See above.
Some? yes. But its impossible to say all bands. I have records from "one hit wonders", who have one sound the first record, and then a completely different sound the next.
Youre right, i forgot about electronica/techno/dubstep. Which, BTW, are rooted in hop-hop. But i still feel like hip-hop is finding its feet. Must my opinion.
I was speaking on US hip-hop, not the wanna be crap from over seas.
Thats hip-hop as a whole, not just the Bay. And that is my driving point of why its so unique: what other genre of music do people get shit on for "not keeping it real"? I mean, i guess a death metal band who are all mormons would be one, but still...noone is really going to give that big of shit. However, if rapper A says he shoots people and sells drugs, but its revealed that he is a chior boy....he may lose support depending on how big he is. The fans will turn on you.
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