Pacquiao vs Algieri Nov 22nd, China

[naner12]

Good post. power is often the last thing to go, but I thought he was about to knock the iron chinned Marquez out (who I think was on roids or at least some form of PED's) right before he got ko'd himself. He also had Mosley badly hurt who had never been stopped until his last fight with back spasms. His power is still there, but he moved up in weight and he's been fighting elite guys. It's always harder to knock those types of guys out. That's consistent throughout boxing.

Pacquiao's power transferred well moving up weight, that was the allure of Pacquiao.

But yeah more often than not guys have trouble bringing concussions up with them through the weight classes. I think in Pacquiao's case age is playing a bigger part more than anything else.

Having power is one thing, being able to maximize that on someone, preferably when they don't see it coming, becomes much harder to do with age. I wouldn't say that really lose their power more the ability to deliver it as effectively as they once did.

 

[naner12]

Two, he's not the same guy anymore (age and getting KTFO the fight prior will do that alone, there doesn't need to be any other reason. Most guys who get put to sleep don't look exactly the same their next fight, some are never the same.).

That's a good point. There's some guys that completely change their styles after getting crushed badly. John Ruiz was never really fought the same after Tua blew him away, and Winky used to actually be pretty aggressive until Vazquez sat him down 5 times.

 

[The Bay Area]

Oh god...Forman got KO'd...Duran got KO'd...Norris got KO'd...Holyfield got KO'd...Lewis got KO'd...but their punching power didn't tank...their mentality probably did...Pacquaio been hitting people while on his toes...while on the move...HE STILL HAS SPEED, HE STILL HAS LATERAL MOVEMENT, HE IS NOT A SHOT FIGHTER...but...his power is noticeably...different...Roy Jones was a shot fighter if ever you saw one...he was gimpy...Pac is not gimpy...Pac has everything accept...?

 

[The Bay Area]

Here 206... here's Benard Hopkins explaining the same thing Im trying to, unsuccessfully, get across to you on my opinion of Manny Pacquiao. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4LxttK0PDA

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Oh god...Forman got KO'd...Duran got KO'd...Norris got KO'd...Holyfield got KO'd...Lewis got KO'd...but their punching power didn't tank...their mentality probably did...Pacquaio been hitting people while on his toes...while on the move...HE STILL HAS SPEED, HE STILL HAS LATERAL MOVEMENT, HE IS NOT A SHOT FIGHTER...but...his power is noticeably...different...Roy Jones was a shot fighter if ever you saw one...he was gimpy...Pac is not gimpy...Pac has everything accept...?

Accept everything I already pointed out. The explosiveness, combination punching, movement is not the same. Pacquiao has been on the decline before he got KO'd. He's fought twice since.

 

[The Bay Area]

Accept everything I already pointed out. The explosiveness, combination punching, movement is not the same. Pacquiao has been on the decline before he got KO'd. He's fought twice since.

Okay...I'm gonna narrow this down for you because it's getting to far from the point...I'm not saying:

1- Not saying Pacquaio is exactly the same fighters as 2-5 years ago
2- Not saying he is a 1 punch KO artist
3- Not saying he is still in his prime

What I am saying is:

1- He still has enough speed to generate power
2- He is not a shot fighter
3- Age does play a roll in reaction, durability, stamina and speed...but it doesn't erode your power and strength as quickly.

My conclusion: Because Pac doesn't look shot, because he still generates enough speed (let's say 80%) to deliver the same shots that ripped through bigger fighters he was on PEDS at the time and is now off PEDS...

Note: I notice you didn't remark on the Bernard Hopkins' video that expresses the same things----> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4LxttK0PDA

^^^^^^

 

[naner12]

Let's break down his fights since his last stoppage against Cotto..

Joshua Clottey - overly defensive, has never been stopped. Clottey never really engaged him and mostly took punches from a shell.

Antonio Margarito - didn't stop him, but beat the shit out of him and put Margarito out of commission for quite some time due to injuries to his eye suffered in this fight.

Shane Mosley - didn't stop him, but dropped him and like you said earlier Shane made this quote "I just fought the best fighter in the world. He has exceptional power. I've never been hit like that before. Power is still alright here.

Juan Manuel Marquez III - didn't stop him, but Marquez has never been stopped and was not stopped by Pacquiao in lighter weights even after being floored 3 times in one fight.

Tim Bradley - didn't stop him, not here to argue a decision on this, but I thought he won clearly. Wobbled Bradley but never really hurt him badly.

Juan Manuel Marquez IV - was stopped here, same still applies as the earlier Marquez fight. Hurt Marquez like he does in every fight but got crushed himself in the process.

Brandon Rios - didn't stop him, boxed more than he has previously, especially in the closing rounds. Only guy on this list so far I feel he should have stopped.

Tim Bradley II - didn't stop him, won clearly against an aggressive Bradley. Roach even made this comment after the fight "Manny was a little sloppy tonight but I was happy with his performance."

He started doing this advanced testing for Rios, and if he was PEDs prior to that, that'd be his KO loss to Marquez and his first fight with Bradley? Why would he stop there with no advance testing taking place? I just don't get the argument and where people want to pick a stopping point like they can pinpoint the moment he stopped taking PEDs especially where until 2 fights ago he had absolutely zero reason to stop doing them if he was doing them.

 

[The Bay Area]

Let's break down his fights since his last stoppage against Cotto..

Joshua Clottey - overly defensive, has never been stopped. Clottey never really engaged him and mostly took punches from a shell.

Antonio Margarito - didn't stop him, but beat the shit out of him and put Margarito out of commission for quite some time due to injuries to his eye suffered in this fight.

Shane Mosley - didn't stop him, but dropped him and like you said earlier Shane made this quote "I just fought the best fighter in the world. He has exceptional power. I've never been hit like that before. Power is still alright here.

Juan Manuel Marquez III - didn't stop him, but Marquez has never been stopped and was not stopped by Pacquiao in lighter weights even after being floored 3 times in one fight.

Tim Bradley - didn't stop him, not here to argue a decision on this, but I thought he won clearly. Wobbled Bradley but never really hurt him badly.

Juan Manuel Marquez IV - was stopped here, same still applies as the earlier Marquez fight. Hurt Marquez like he does in every fight but got crushed himself in the process.

Brandon Rios - didn't stop him, boxed more than he has previously, especially in the closing rounds. Only guy on this list so far I feel he should have stopped.

Tim Bradley II - didn't stop him, won clearly against an aggressive Bradley. Roach even made this comment after the fight "Manny was a little sloppy tonight but I was happy with his performance."

He started doing this advanced testing for Rios, and if he was PEDs prior to that, that'd be his KO loss to Marquez and his first fight with Bradley? Why would he stop there with no advance testing taking place? I just don't get the argument and where people want to pick a stopping point like they can pinpoint the moment he stopped taking PEDs especially where until 2 fights ago he had absolutely zero reason to stop doing them if he was doing them.

What does him STOPPING PEOPLE have to do with what I'm talking about? I'll just assume this isn't addressing the previous posts I've put up.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Okay...I'm gonna narrow this down for you because it's getting to far from the point...I'm not saying:

1- Not saying Pacquaio is exactly the same fighters as 2-5 years ago
2- Not saying he is a 1 punch KO artist
3- Not saying he is still in his prime

What I am saying is:

1- He still has enough speed to generate power
2- He is not a shot fighter
3- Age does play a roll in reaction, durability, stamina and speed...but it doesn't erode your power and strength as quickly.

My conclusion: Because Pac doesn't look shot, because he still generates enough speed (let's say 80%) to deliver the same shots that ripped through bigger fighters he was on PEDS at the time and is now off PEDS...

Note: I notice you didn't remark on the Bernard Hopkins' video that expresses the same things----> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4LxttK0PDA

^^^^^^

Now your using the term shot when I nor anyone else said he's shot. He just beat Bradley clearly, a shot fighter doesn't do that.

What I've said, and what you admit to, is Pacquiao is not the same fighter that he was five years ago. He's still a good fighter but clearly at the tail end of his career (as most 35 year old fighters with 63 fights and many wars should be). It's a massive jump to conclusion to simple say his decline is because he suddenly stopped taking PEDs. Everything I've said is reason enough for a guy to decline. There is zero evidence or even rational for your argument here, which is basically - Pacquiao isn't quite the same anymore, therefore he stopped using PEDs. That's a big leap, man.

I haven't commented on the Bhop video because I haven't watched it. I dont know what I will get out of it. Hopkins does and says many things, some I agree with some I don't. He can say one thing one day and then the opposite the next (he's called Pacquiao the greatest of this era only to call Floyd the greatest of this era a month later, etc).

 

[naner12]

What does him STOPPING PEOPLE have to do with what I'm talking about? I'll just assume this isn't addressing the previous posts I've put up.

I was just posting up the results and how the fights played out. I indicated which fights he still showed power despite not scoring a KO/TKO. I started from the fights since Cotto cause he clearly showed power in the Cotto fight. My question is exactly when did he stop taking PEDs and if he was getting away with it and storming through the divisions why would he suddenly stop?

The only real answer for him to stop PEDs is from the Brandon Rios fight, which would be his last 2 fights only.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Let's break down his fights since his last stoppage against Cotto..

Joshua Clottey - overly defensive, has never been stopped. Clottey never really engaged him and mostly took punches from a shell.

Antonio Margarito - didn't stop him, but beat the shit out of him and put Margarito out of commission for quite some time due to injuries to his eye suffered in this fight.

Shane Mosley - didn't stop him, but dropped him and like you said earlier Shane made this quote "I just fought the best fighter in the world. He has exceptional power. I've never been hit like that before. Power is still alright here.

Juan Manuel Marquez III - didn't stop him, but Marquez has never been stopped and was not stopped by Pacquiao in lighter weights even after being floored 3 times in one fight.

Tim Bradley - didn't stop him, not here to argue a decision on this, but I thought he won clearly. Wobbled Bradley but never really hurt him badly.

Juan Manuel Marquez IV - was stopped here, same still applies as the earlier Marquez fight. Hurt Marquez like he does in every fight but got crushed himself in the process.

Brandon Rios - didn't stop him, boxed more than he has previously, especially in the closing rounds. Only guy on this list so far I feel he should have stopped.

Tim Bradley II - didn't stop him, won clearly against an aggressive Bradley. Roach even made this comment after the fight "Manny was a little sloppy tonight but I was happy with his performance."

He started doing this advanced testing for Rios, and if he was PEDs prior to that, that'd be his KO loss to Marquez and his first fight with Bradley? Why would he stop there with no advance testing taking place? I just don't get the argument and where people want to pick a stopping point like they can pinpoint the moment he stopped taking PEDs especially where until 2 fights ago he had absolutely zero reason to stop doing them if he was doing them.

I never understood the logic when people said he was on PEDs that he would suddenly stop after Cotto. For what reason would he stop? He wasn't doing Olympic style testing so if he was juicing why would he stop? After he was KOd by JMM, he and Roach suspected JMM may be on PEDs, not just because he looked physically bigger and stronger but that JMM was literally being trained by one of the most infamous PED dealers on earth. So since then he's insisted on VADA testing. My thing is if Pacquiao was juicing, and just got KOd by Marquez, wouldn't he want to juice out of his mind to comeback stronger? There was no need for Olympic style testing against fucking Rios. You'd think that would be the time to juice like crazy. But Pac insisted on the testing. Once a cheater always a cheater right? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[The Bay Area]

Now your using the term shot when I nor anyone else said he's shot. He just beat Bradley clearly, a shot fighter doesn't do that.

What I've said, and what you admit to, is Pacquiao is not the same fighter that he was five years ago. He's still a good fighter but clearly at the tail end of his career (as most 35 year old fighters with 63 fights and many wars should be). It's a massive jump to conclusion to simple say his decline is because he suddenly stopped taking PEDs. Everything I've said is reason enough for a guy to decline. There is zero evidence or even rational for your argument here, which is basically - Pacquiao isn't quite the same anymore, therefore he stopped using PEDs. That's a big leap, man.

I haven't commented on the Bhop video because I haven't watched it. I dont know what I will get out of it. Hopkins does and says many things, some I agree with some I don't. He can say one thing one day and then the opposite the next (he's called Pacquiao the greatest of this era only to call Floyd the greatest of this era a month later, etc).

Everything about Pacquiao is relatively the same...AGE--->has eroded some of his attributes and I AGREE with that...but his POWER should not have dropped off so dramatically...as I see him still having relatively good speed, movement and reflexes...I AGREE...that is why he beat Bradley...I AGREE...but the fact that he refused RBT and the latest news of Freddy Roach coming out about Ariza and the "Mystery Shakes" leads me to believe that Pacquiao was on PEDS...Freddy said Ariza was SHADY...speculation...YES...but it's enough for me to come to my conclusion.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Freddy said that after Ariza KICKED him in the chest lol. Roach was trying Real hard to discredit Ariza but by doing so made his own fighters look bad. Roach says as much stupid shit as any boxer does..

 

[The Bay Area]

Freddy said that after Ariza KICKED him in the chest lol. Roach was trying Real hard to discredit Ariza but by doing so made his own fighters look bad. Roach says as much stupid shit as any boxer does..

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...who the fuck DO you believe? Not Roach, not Hopkins, not Morales, not Paulie, not Ariza, not Floyd Sr/ Jr, not Roger, not Atlas?

You believe....Arum, Pacquaio, the Nevada State commission.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...who the fuck DO you believe? Not Roach, not Hopkins, not Morales, not Paulie, not Ariza, not Floyd Sr/ Jr, not Roger, not Atlas?

You believe....Arum, Pacquaio, the Nevada State commission.

And I can list just as many fighters that are on Pac's side. The thing with me is I base my opinions by myself not others.

Half those guys you listed are bias as fuck. The Mayweathers obviously, Atlas and Paulie (Paulie used to say Pacquiao would beat Floud and was jocking him, then after becoming friends with Floyd changed his tune). Paulie said if there is drug testing for Pac vs Bradley 2 Bradley will win 100%, but of course after Pac won Paulie still gave him zero credit. Ariza and Roach never said Pacquiao was on PEDs so I don't know what you're talking about there.

My argument here is against YOUR argument that because Pacquiao doesn't quite have the same power as he did 5 years ago that must mean he's on PEDs. Nothing more. The burden of proof is on you and all you have provided is opinions and speculation. That's why I said in the beginning this was an irrelevant and pointless discussion.

 

[Tony]

I'm gonna keep it 100% real. I have to go in because I had blood in my urine. They have to stick some shit up my dick and, from what I've been told, the process of checking your prostate, kidneys and bladder HURTS. I have to do all this shit and I'm not gettin paid but this muthafucka can't let them stick a tiny needle in his arm for $40 million or whatever it was?

Fuck out of here.

What they say about you Tony? You gotta change your diet or something?

Ouch, hope you're ok bro.

Yeah Doc said I have to cut back on the carbs and sugar. Less bread and deserts. I was pissing too much during the day and the middle of the night. I'd go to sleep then wake up like at 2 or 3 in the morning to piss, messing my sleep up. Too much sugar in my blood. Thanks for asking.

I backed Paquiao for a minute on the drug testing issue until Floyd came down and offered a two week no testing window, Manny still refused. Then when you ask him now, he says you can test him in between rounds. Hmmmm.....

 

[The Bay Area]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M57IbULtem8

This diagram here is the reason Chris Algeri shouldn't be in the same ring with Manny Pacquaio and is gonna get KO by the 6-7th round. I been looking at the guy fight of late on some past Youtube bouts and he has one BIG technical flaw...his inside fighting...he tends to lean his long frame to far left or right when he is working either side of the body with his head straight up...Freddy Roach seeing this will instruct Manny to get in as many exchanges with Algeri as possible...because Pac has a compact sing that will tag Chris and Algeri can get wobbled anytime his chin is tapped...Chris is Amir Chan -2.0...meaning Pacquiao has seen this guy before in sparring...a better version lol. The only way Chris Algeri presents a problem is if he starts to "warm up" to Manny's punches and his resistance to the impact becomes greater...anything past the 8th round becomes a battle of attrition which will favor the busier Algeri who has thrown over 1,000 punches...if he isn't to battered by the 7th he could out punch Manny and get a decision...but I see Pacquiao stopping this guy early to mid round by being close inside and ripping him from angles...if this guy Jose Peralta can get to Algeri then picture Pacquaio in the exact same position this fighter was in an imagine the results. Conclusion this will look like Canelo vs Lara until Manny KOs this mid fight.

 

[The Bay Area]

The first 3 frames Chris gets away with all that leaning, chin up and carrying a low guard...against a lower class fighter...the second 3 frames shows a quality fighter, Raslan, blasting him for that mistake...Pacquiao is WAAY better than Raslan.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Fighters meet in China

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Pacquiao announced today, provided he wins, if he doesn't get a Mayweather fight next he's moving down to 140 or 135.