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Coach E. No

Jesus es Numero Uno
Mar 30, 2013
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They should have to WORK for it. If you are champ and you move up in weight you shouldn't go straight to the top. That isn't insanity it is logic. There are plenty of other guys in the division who have put in work. They dont need to have their shit compromised because someone moved up in weight. Fuck that. Earn your shit.

So fuckin what if Tito was P4P? What the FUCK did he do besides move up in weight? Did he beat a MW? Nope. Lose to one? No. HE DIDN'T EVEN FIGHT ONE UNTIL JOPPY!

So if we apply your fucked up logic it is ok for Floyd to move right into the #1 spot if he jumps. Bullshit.
you're arguing a moot point. This is one of the least important rules that sanctioning bodies have. More often than not, fans want to see a champ that has moved up to challenge another champ at another weightclass instead of seeing someone ranked #6 in that division fighting for a belt. The history of boxing has had some of it's greatest fights with guys moving up in weight and fighting for a title. The fans would've been cheated by missing out on those fights.

You're expecting the sanctioning bodies to make a fighter "earn" a place in that division when their rankings are b.s. half the time anyways. Where should they start in a division when they move up? Ranked #10? #5? What? You're the only person I've ever seen complain about this rule.
 
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The biggest pay per view in history Mayweather vs Oscar should never have happened according to HERSEY because Floyd should have had to "put in work" at 154 first lol. You know what Mayweather did to earn that fight? He was the best fighter on the planet, period. If anything people should argue what did Oscar do to deserve a shot at Mayorga whom Oscar got the belt from. Oscar was KOd by Bernard Hopkins then took about two years off and immediately fought Mayorga for the WBC title. Or go further what did Mayorga do to earn his title? Mayorga was KOd by Trinidad than immediately got a title shot against Michele Piccirillo for the vacant WBC title (who??). These are problems in the own division that don't make any sense. At least Floyd was a champion when he moved up. At least Tito was a champion when he fought Joppy. They weren't paper champions like Oscar and Mayorga.
 
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May 13, 2002
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Well, Haglers greatest win will depend on who you ask. You ask Hagler himself and he will say Ray Leonard and that even Ray said he won the fight. And you bringing up Hearns actually supports what I am saying. I don't endorse the rule. It is a bullshit rule no matter who it is applied to. And then you bringing up Hearns is another victory for me. Look at Hearns record AFTER the Hagler loss. More specifically, look at all the weight classes he fought in afterwards. HE WAS COMFORTABLE FIGHTING AT A HEAVIER WEIGHT but even then, every loss Hearns had afterwards came at that weight or higher. Tito was SHIT at a heavier weight. Hagler had at LEAST 30 fights in the weight class BEFORE he fought Hearns. Hearns had ZERO. Hopkins had at least 20 BEFORE he fought Tito while Tito had ONE.
Sugar Ray Leonard? So a guy who had never fought at 160, let alone 154, and was retired for three years? Leonard didn't fight for 3 years and before that 2 years, and his first fight at 160 was against the undisputed middleweight champion Marvin Hagler? That's even WORSE than the example of Tommy Hearns, since Hearns was a champion at 154 pounds (he had 8 fights there) at least (and of course he was not retired for 3 years!).

What Tito did after Hopkins is irrelevant since Hopkins ruined him. Tito retired for two years, he was never the same guy and only fought when he needed money after that. Hearns didn't give up after he lost to Hagler, he put the gloves back on and kept fighting. Different people. Hearns fought into his 40's, his last fight was in 2006 believe it or not at age 48. Hagler retired when he lost to Leonard he was only 32 years old. He didn't have the heart no more to continue.

Whtat did* Alexis Arguello do after he lost to Aaron Pryor (that's another fight where a guy moved up (Arguello) to challenge the champ (Pryor)? Nothing. He wasn't the same fighter after Pryor. Does that suddenly mean Arguello wasn't Pryor's best win, does it mean it wasn't a great win and an all time great performance? Of course not. You have to look at fights in the context of WHEN the fight them. What a guy does after a loss is irreverent.
 
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May 13, 2002
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They should have to WORK for it. If you are champ and you move up in weight you shouldn't go straight to the top. That isn't insanity it is logic. There are plenty of other guys in the division who have put in work. They dont need to have their shit compromised because someone moved up in weight. Fuck that. Earn your shit.

So fuckin what if Tito was P4P? What the FUCK did he do besides move up in weight? Did he beat a MW? Nope. Lose to one? No. HE DIDN'T EVEN FIGHT ONE UNTIL JOPPY!

So if we apply your fucked up logic it is ok for Floyd to move right into the #1 spot if he jumps. Bullshit.
Yes this insanity. You're saying Tommy Hearns should start from the bottom at 160 and work his way up to the top to fight Marvin Hagler, wasting a year or two when the mega fight is right there from the start. There would be no incentive and the fans, the sport and the fighters would hate that shit. I like the rule. It gives a champion incentive to move up, after all they are giving up their belt in order for that rule to apply they should get something in return. Regardless, if you don't agree with the rule that's not my problem. You asked what Tito did to earn a shot at Joppy (lol) and I dropped facts. You don't have to like the facts but facts are exactly that - facts.
 
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How the fuck did you inform me if the rule whwn BEFORE you even typed that I said all Tito did was move up and weight and he got a shot? ALL HE DID WAS MOVE UP IN WEIGHT AND THE RULE KICKED IN. HE DID NOTHING TO "EARN" THE FIGHT AND I SAID THAT FROM THE GATES!
You obviously weren't referring to the rule as you said "All Tito did was move up two weight classes". He didn't move up two weight classes. He was a champion at junior middleweight.
 
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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
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You obviously weren't referring to the rule as you said "All Tito did was move up two weight classes". He didn't move up two weight classes. He was a champion at junior middleweight.
He did move up two classes. He moved up to lmw and did what? Got a title match with who? Reid. How many fights did he have at lmw before that? Thanks for playing and proving my point. The man moved up in two weight classes and in each instance he got a fight. Then you totally forget that I was the one who said he had three fights at lmw and said those fights were not enough.

But hey you just keep on cherry picking and making up shit to protect BHOP's legacy.
 
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Man, it's clear as day I was the one that mentioned that rule. You never said shit about it. I explained it in full detail, not you.

Like I said I've been dropping facts you express opinion.

And if you don't think Hopkins win against Tito was great you really don't know shit about boxing and should stick to debating battle. Protect his legacy? His legacy is set in stone I don't have to do shit. Like YOU said he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. ATG.
 
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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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you're arguing a moot point. This is one of the least important rules that sanctioning bodies have. More often than not, fans want to see a champ that has moved up to challenge another champ at another weightclass instead of seeing someone ranked #6 in that division fighting for a belt. The history of boxing has had some of it's greatest fights with guys moving up in weight and fighting for a title. The fans would've been cheated by missing out on those fights.

You're expecting the sanctioning bodies to make a fighter "earn" a place in that division when their rankings are b.s. half the time anyways. Where should they start in a division when they move up? Ranked #10? #5? What? You're the only person I've ever seen complain about this rule.
You guys are selective readers. Let me explain this to you once again even though I said it at least twice in the previous page. When they move up they should be ranked in the top 5 or top 3. They should work their way up or fight the #1 contender. So it is simple. Move up get put in the top 5 or 3 if the #1 already has a fight scheduled. If not then the champ who moved up gets to fight the #1. He wins he gets his shot. He loses he slides down the ladder. I am the first you probably heard say it but if you leave this forum you will see many don't agree with the rule.

Finally, you're using misplaced logic (if we can even call it that) when you talk about all the fights you got to see. What about all the fights you didn't get to see?
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
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Man, it's clear as day I was the one that mentioned that rule. You never said shit about it. I explained it in full detail, not you.

Like I said I've been dropping facts you express opinion.

And if you don't think Hopkins win against Tito was great you really don't know shit about boxing and should stick to debating battle. Protect his legacy? His legacy is set in stone I don't have to do shit. Like YOU said he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. ATG.
Give it a rest. I said the guy did NOTHING except move up in two weight classes and history shows it. He moved up to lmw and got a shot. He moved up from there and got a shot. You have dropped opinion, false allegations and relied on selective reading while I have relied on truth, critical readings and facts.

Have I said his win was not great? No. I gave him props for it. You can see it in this recent debate and the last one where I bodied you like Hopkins did Tito. However, I am NOT going to pass off the win as that great because you have Hopkins, a true LHW who can double as a MW with YEARS of experience and defenses at MW fighting a guy who moved up to MW and only had 1 prior MW fight.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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Yes this insanity. You're saying Tommy Hearns should start from the bottom at 160 and work his way up to the top to fight Marvin Hagler, wasting a year or two when the mega fight is right there from the start. There would be no incentive and the fans, the sport and the fighters would hate that shit. I like the rule. It gives a champion incentive to move up, after all they are giving up their belt in order for that rule to apply they should get something in return. Regardless, if you don't agree with the rule that's not my problem. You asked what Tito did to earn a shot at Joppy (lol) and I dropped facts. You don't have to like the facts but facts are exactly that - facts.
Read the previous pages. I have said nothing about starting at the bottom. On the prwvious page I said where they should start.

You get rid of all these weight classes and you can limit this bullshit because it will be harder to move up. There are plenty of incentives but because you endorse this shit and back alley deals, it makes no sense to list them.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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The biggest pay per view in history Mayweather vs Oscar should never have happened according to HERSEY because Floyd should have had to "put in work" at 154 first lol. You know what Mayweather did to earn that fight? He was the best fighter on the planet, period. If anything people should argue what did Oscar do to deserve a shot at Mayorga whom Oscar got the belt from. Oscar was KOd by Bernard Hopkins then took about two years off and immediately fought Mayorga for the WBC title. Or go further what did Mayorga do to earn his title? Mayorga was KOd by Trinidad than immediately got a title shot against Michele Piccirillo for the vacant WBC title (who??). These are problems in the own division that don't make any sense. At least Floyd was a champion when he moved up. At least Tito was a champion when he fought Joppy. They weren't paper champions like Oscar and Mayorga.
No matter who you name or what fight you mentiin I don't agree with the rule. I don't agree with it, I don't agree with all the weight classes, belts, networks taking over, people ducking the mandatory, no overall body and no overall testing.

Again, I don't care who you name I do NOT endorse it.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
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Sugar Ray Leonard? So a guy who had never fought at 160, let alone 154, and was retired for three years? Leonard didn't fight for 3 years and before that 2 years, and his first fight at 160 was against the undisputed middleweight champion Marvin Hagler? That's even WORSE than the example of Tommy Hearns, since Hearns was a champion at 154 pounds (he had 8 fights there) at least (and of course he was not retired for 3 years!).

What Tito did after Hopkins is irrelevant since Hopkins ruined him. Tito retired for two years, he was never the same guy and only fought when he needed money after that. Hearns didn't give up after he lost to Hagler, he put the gloves back on and kept fighting. Different people. Hearns fought into his 40's, his last fight was in 2006 believe it or not at age 48. Hagler retired when he lost to Leonard he was only 32 years old. He didn't have the heart no more to continue.

Whtat did* Alexis Arguello do after he lost to Aaron Pryor (that's another fight where a guy moved up (Arguello) to challenge the champ (Pryor)? Nothing. He wasn't the same fighter after Pryor. Does that suddenly mean Arguello wasn't Pryor's best win, does it mean it wasn't a great win and an all time great performance? Of course not. You have to look at fights in the context of WHEN the fight them. What a guy does after a loss is irreverent.
I am gonna keep this brief but reserve the right to edit and address later.

There is a difference between greatest win and greatest opponent.
 
May 13, 2002
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Give it a rest. I said the guy did NOTHING except move up in two weight classes and history shows it. He moved up to lmw and got a shot. He moved up from there and got a shot. You have dropped opinion, false allegations and relied on selective reading while I have relied on truth, critical readings and facts.
I broke down the rule. You never mentioned it. That's factual. It's all there in the posts.

Have I said his win was not great? No. I gave him props for it. You can see it in this recent debate and the last one where I bodied you like Hopkins did Tito. However, I am NOT going to pass off the win as that great because you have Hopkins, a true LHW who can double as a MW with YEARS of experience and defenses at MW fighting a guy who moved up to MW and only had 1 prior MW fight.
So now Hopkins was a true Light Heavyweight huh? A true LHW couldn't make 160 for damn near 20 years and weigh in at 156, 157, and 158 pounds on a regular basis.

His first pro fight, in 1988, months after getting out of prison was at LHW. He lost, got a real trainer and got into shape. He was a natural middleweight.

When Bernard Hopkins was trained by Smokey Wilson in prison for 5 years, when Hopkins left prison he was given a picture by his mentor Smokey Wilson, on the back it read "You will become Middleweight Champion of the World". His plan was always to be a middleweight. So what if he came in heavy in his first fight in 1988 fresh out of prison.*


Bernard Hopkins, left, and Michael Wilson, right, at the State Correctional Institution at Graterford for the dedication of a mural of Hopkins on the gymnasium wall. Wilson has served 41 years of his life sentence.
 
May 13, 2002
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No matter who you name or what fight you mentiin I don't agree with the rule. I don't agree with it, I don't agree with all the weight classes, belts, networks taking over, people ducking the mandatory, no overall body and no overall testing.

Again, I don't care who you name I do NOT endorse it.
Well thank god you don't run boxing Hagler vs Hearns? Nope! HERESY says no!
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
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I broke down the rule. You never mentioned it. That's factual. It's all there in the posts.



So now Hopkins was a true Light Heavyweight huh? A true LHW couldn't make 160 for damn near 20 years and weigh in at 156, 157, and 158 pounds on a regular basis.

His first pro fight, in 1988, months after getting out of prison was at LHW. He lost, got a real trainer and got into shape. He was a natural middleweight.

When Bernard Hopkins was trained by Smokey Wilson in prison for 5 years, when Hopkins left prison he was given a picture by his mentor Smokey Wilson, on the back it read "You will become Middleweight Champion of the World". His plan was always to be a middleweight. So what if he came in heavy in his first fight in 1988 fresh out of prison.*


Bernard Hopkins, left, and Michael Wilson, right, at the State Correctional Institution at Graterford for the dedication of a mural of Hopkins on the gymnasium wall. Wilson has served 41 years of his life sentence.
Listen bro. I mentioned the rule first when I said what I said. If I said a guy did NOTHING BUT MOVE UP IN WEIGHT that is the rule at work. He did not move up and fight a contender. He moved up and fought a champ then moved up and fought one again.

Start reading nigga.

The late great Steward, "Bernard is a natural light heavyweight." Now have I said he couldn't double as a MW? No but Tito was NOT true mw. That is it. Nothing more.
 
May 13, 2002
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Listen bro. I mentioned the rule first when I said what I said. If I said a guy did NOTHING BUT MOVE UP IN WEIGHT that is the rule at work. He did not move up and fight a contender. He moved up and fought a champ then moved up and fought one again.

Start reading nigga.
lol you saying Tito went up two weight classes does not explain the rule nor does it imply you knew the rule existed. It wasn't until I explained it to you that you went back and started covering your tracks saying Oh well yeah of course I knew that!

The late great Steward, "Bernard is a natural light heavyweight." Now have I said he couldn't double as a MW? No but Tito was NOT true mw. That is it. Nothing more.
Did Steward train Hopkins, ever? Did he say that early in his career? Nope.

Trinidad was a middleweight when he fought Hopkins. That's a fact. If Hopkins didn't exist there is no question Tito beats everyone at Middleweight at that time.
 
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Ruslan Provodnikov…feared man at Junior Welterweight



After winning the WBO Junior Welterweight Championship by stopping heralded tough guy and incumbent title holder “Mile High” Mike Alvarado in the reigning champ’s hometown of Denver, Colorado, on October 19th of last year, most fight fans would have guessed that big fight opportunities would be easily attainable for undefeated Russian native Ruslan Provodnikov in 2014.
With sledgehammers for fists and an iron chin to match, the irresistible force at 140 pounds always displays violent drama in the ring whenever he graces the light blue canvas…the kind that brings enthusiasm to arenas and excites fight fans around the world.

The 30 year old champ represents the kind of warrior that most avid boxing enthusiasts are willing to support.
So with a fan friendly style and a piece of coveted hardware around his waist, why is the HBO featured title holder still searching for a suitable challenger?
Ruslan’s promoter, Artie Pellulo, believes that most fighters in and around his Junior Welterweight champion’s weight division understand the obvious dangers in facing a competitor like Provodnikov.
“He always poses that brutal knock-out threat,” professes the CEO and president of Banner Promotions. “Ruslan could be losing every round going into the final stanza of a prizefight and still pull out the victory by landing one perfect shot to the chin. Everyone who saw his fights with Bradley and Alvarado last year found out what we’ve known for a very long time…that Ruslan is one of the most devastating punchers in the entire sport.”

On March 16th, 2013, Provodnikov made his HBO debut against two division world champion and pound for pound fighter Timothy Bradley for the “Desert Storm’s” WBO Welterweight title.
Despite being a 5 to 1 underdog going into the championship bout, Ruslan made his presence felt early in the fight by staggering the customarily granite chinned Tim Bradley in the closing seconds of the opening round with a perfectly timed overhand right.

Although Provodnikov eventually received the short end of a controversial unanimous decision verdict, the hard punching challenger floored the heavily favored fight veteran in the twelfth round and arguably decked Bradley two additional times without receiving credit for the knock-downs from referee Pat Russell throughout the contest.
Directly following the entertaining war of attrition, the declared winner had much to say about his hammer fisted opponent.
“I suffered a concussion early in the fight…Ruslan is a great warrior,” admitted Tim Bradley. “He’ll beat any 140 and 147 pounder out there. I’m telling you, he’s the real deal.”
Despite losing his first big title opportunity, it was obvious to everyone who had witnessed the eventual “Fight of the Year” for 2013 that Ruslan Provodnikov had officially arrived.
The newly crowned WBO title holder truly enjoyed a break-out year in 2013, and looked very impressive in both outings against two respected champions; even in controversial loss.
Perhaps a little too impressive.
Although there was brief discussion between Banner Promotions and Top Rank, Inc, concerning possible PPV bouts with both Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez respectively, the two legendary fighters elected to entertain other offers.
Pellulo believes that the best at 140 and 147 pounds can run, but they can’t hide.
“Right now, we’re working on finding Ruslan an opponent for a possible June 14th date on HBO, and it’s going to be somewhat of a ‘stay busy’ fight with a credible fighter at Junior Welterweight. Although we want to see him in the ring with the proven champions at either 140 or 147 pounds, guys like Manny and JMM don’t want any part of Ruslan Provodnikov at this time.”

“But it’s going to happen sooner or later. Pacquiao, Marquez, Bradley, and even Floyd Mayweather will have to fight him eventually, because Ruslan isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.”