Does Edward Snowden even exist?

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Rasan

Producer
May 17, 2002
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#1
Wonkbook: Does Edward Snowden even exist?

Wonkbook: Does Edward Snowden even exist?


By Ezra Klein and Evan Soltas, Published: June 24, 2013 at 8:44 am


Welcome to Wonkbook, Ezra Klein and Evan Soltas’s morning policy news primer. To subscribe by e-mail, click here. Send comments, criticism, or ideas to Wonkbook at Gmail dot com. To read more by Ezra and his team, go to Wonkblog.

(Photo by Kin Cheung/AP)
(Photo by Kin Cheung/AP)

Aeroflot flight 150, from Moscow to Havana, was packed with dozens of journalists who’d bought tickets to get a glimpse of, and maybe even an interview with, fleeing leaker Edward Snowden. But when the doors closed and the plane readied for takeoff, they made an unpleasant discovery: Snowden wasn’t on the plane.

There is, of course, only one explanation for Snowden’s absence: He never existed in the first place.

When you think about it in retrospect, it’s all so obvious. Some lone hacker — a high-school dropout, no less — with a beautiful model girlfriend and some strongly held views about transparency sacrifices his future to expose the NSA’s most secretive program and then runs to Hong Kong and then to Moscow. Oh, and his model girlfriend has a blog where she writes about life as a pole-dancing acrobat. It’s all a bit too perfect, isn’t it? (Editor’s note for the literal minded: It is not, in fact, all too perfect, and this column is not actually suggesting Edward Snowden isn’t real. It’s just a conceit to make a larger point.)

The only question is motive: Why would anyone do it? The answer, as Buzzfeed’s Ben Smith hints, is that it was necessary to keep the NSA programs safe. We can surmise that the information was leaking anyway, and so the government needed a distraction. Something connected to the NSA, so covering it would still feel like covering the NSA story, but that would divert much of the press from covering the actual programs.

And it’s worked. Everyone is talking about “Edward Snowden.” The whole world knows what flight he was supposed to be on this morning and which countries he’s considering as safe harbors. The term “STELLARWIND,” by contrast, has largely dropped out of the news.

The genius of the plan is that it offers an emotional arc and payoff that feels like it’s about the NSA story. People angry about the government’s actions can cheer Snowden’s moxie and root for his flight. People angry about the leaks can hope the government manages to catch him. There’s a new plot twist each and every day. There will, presumably, be an eventual resolution to the Snowden story, such that those following it feel they have a sense of closure and can move onto other topics.

The Exciting Adventures of Edward Snowden haven’t stopped the press from digging deeper into the NSA programs, of course. The Washington Post and the Guardian have remained doggedly on the trail of the NSA programs. And just this weekend, McClatchy revealed the “Insider Threat” program that the Obama administration uses to keep this kind of information from leaking out.

But whereas those stories might, in another world, be leading a journalistic feeding frenzy and creating a relentless drumbeat for further revelations, in this world, it’s Operation: Snowden that has managed to capture the imagination of the American people (or at least the people interested in political news). It’s Operation: Snowden that’s leading every news homepage and cable broadcast in the world right now. The effort has even neutralized journalistic resources that could’ve been devoted to the larger NSA stories (the poor reporters who got on the flight to Havana won’t be able to turn around for three days, for instance). Operation: Snowden has become the NSA story.

So of course Snowden wasn’t on that plane. He couldn’t have been. If he’d disappeared into Cuba the Snowden story would be over and all that would be left is the NSA story. And that’s not the plan.
 
Sep 20, 2005
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FUCK YOU
#9
You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.
 

Rasan

Producer
May 17, 2002
19,730
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Chula Vista, South Bay, San Diego, California
#11
I have no idea who this Snowden cat is or what the fuck is even going with him.
Long story short. Dude worked for the nsa and revealed to the guardian 2 weeks ago that the nsa monitors phone calls, emails, instant messages, etc without a warrant. He alleges with the right permissions as a nsa analyst they can listen/hack into anyone including the president. Dude fled to hong kong and now supposedly he's in russia. United states has charged him with espionage.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#13
Well, there's the video. But that's all there is really - there was the interview with South China News, but that was in words only and there was the Reddit AMA, which was words only too. Also, the Hong Kong hotel did confirm there was such a person there.

Other than that the only confirmation that he has ever been in Hong Kong was from the Guardian journalists. But there is no real confirmation he ever really boarded the plane to Moscow, that he was on it or that he was at Sheremetyevo.

So in short, there is a lot said and written about him but not much hard evidence that any of it is true.

I don't think he never existed - there is no need to invoke such a conspiracy theory because other whistle blowers definitely existed. And there is the video which does seem to match the person described in it.

But what has actually been happening with him since the release of that video is not clear at all - as I said, no hard evidence for anything.

The optimistic scenario is that he has taken a completely different route to somewhere safe and all of this is a diversion to take away the attention of journalists. Can you imagine what would have happened if he was on that plane to Havana with dozens of journalists on it too (and who knows how many undercover agents, etc.?

But then there is the pessimistic view, which is that we are all taken for a ride by powers greater than Edward Snowden and with much less noble intentions than informing the public. The Chinese and Russians are only slightly better than the US and no less ruthless in the pursuit of their interests. So nobody really knows what's going on.

Until he surfaces live in person, it will be all speculation (and even then nobody will really ever know for sure where he was and what he was doing during this time)
 
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ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
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#15
Well, we have no proof that Bin Laden was Bin Laden'd - it was a case of the government saying "we went, we got him, we threw the body in the ocean". Well, I would have liked to see him live in person in court. At the very least what they did is a murder and a violation of international law (extrajudicial killing of a citizen of another country) but, of course, at this point they are doing it to citizens of their own country so they obviously don't care much about such things. They could have at least shown the body though, that's how it used to be done for most of humanity's history when you had a high profile victim.

But aside from that, if you think about it, there has been very little hard evidence that Al Qaeda is the fearsome terrorist organization it has been portrayed to be or that its supposed leadership is really the leadership. It has been grainy videos with Bin Laden and other bearded people and even those kind of stopped for a few years before they "got him". And if they got him in Pakistan, given the military might of the US, it is inconceivable it was impossible for them to get him in whatever caves he was supposedly hiding before that. You would think they would have captured him back in 1998 after the bombings in Kenya.

It's very hard to know what to believe and what not to....
 

Rasan

Producer
May 17, 2002
19,730
24,632
113
44
Chula Vista, South Bay, San Diego, California
#16
Well, we have no proof that Bin Laden was Bin Laden'd - it was a case of the government saying "we went, we got him, we threw the body in the ocean". Well, I would have liked to see him live in person in court. At the very least what they did is a murder and a violation of international law (extrajudicial killing of a citizen of another country) but, of course, at this point they are doing it to citizens of their own country so they obviously don't care much about such things. They could have at least shown the body though, that's how it used to be done for most of humanity's history when you had a high profile victim.

But aside from that, if you think about it, there has been very little hard evidence that Al Qaeda is the fearsome terrorist organization it has been portrayed to be or that its supposed leadership is really the leadership. It has been grainy videos with Bin Laden and other bearded people and even those kind of stopped for a few years before they "got him". And if they got him in Pakistan, given the military might of the US, it is inconceivable it was impossible for them to get him in whatever caves he was supposedly hiding before that. You would think they would have captured him back in 1998 after the bombings in Kenya.

It's very hard to know what to believe and what not to....
Whoa man u wanna borrow my tinfoil hat?!
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
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#17
Whoa man u wanna borrow my tinfoil hat?!
I want to point out that by writing this I am not automatically subscribing to the popular conspiracy theories, I am just saying that you can only believe the official stories you hear to the extent that you can trust the sources (government and establishment media). Unfortunately, those sources are severely compromised (a very useful exercise is comparing historical events for which behind the scenes details have become known later with how they were reported at the time, there are plenty of good examples), which leaves you with only the hard indisputable facts as solid truths, and when you try listing those, it turns out there are not that many of them, which places a lot less constraints on the space of possible explanations for them than one might have wished.

P.S. At this point in my life, I have been behind the scenes of things reported in the press. It was nothing significant in the cosmic scheme of things, but it was sufficient to confirm that the discrepancy between the version of the stories you get from the media and what actually happened and why is often very large.
 
Nov 24, 2003
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#18
Well, there's the video. But that's all there is really - there was the interview with South China News, but that was in words only and there was the Reddit AMA, which was words only too. Also, the Hong Kong hotel did confirm there was such a person there.........

I am slightly surprised to read this from you.

I would have guessed that this NSA thing fell more under your "people need something to control them and prevent them from killing themselves" arguments from past discussions.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
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#19
I am slightly surprised to read this from you.

I would have guessed that this NSA thing fell more under your "people need something to control them and prevent them from killing themselves" arguments from past discussions.
Then you haven't understood what I have said. People do need such a thing, but this is not the right kind, and it should never be secret - the goal is to change culture and people'e behavior and you're not going to do that with secret programs
 
May 9, 2002
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#20
Well, we have no proof that Bin Laden was Bin Laden'd - it was a case of the government saying "we went, we got him, we threw the body in the ocean". Well, I would have liked to see him live in person in court. At the very least what they did is a murder and a violation of international law (extrajudicial killing of a citizen of another country) but, of course, at this point they are doing it to citizens of their own country so they obviously don't care much about such things. They could have at least shown the body though, that's how it used to be done for most of humanity's history when you had a high profile victim.

But aside from that, if you think about it, there has been very little hard evidence that Al Qaeda is the fearsome terrorist organization it has been portrayed to be or that its supposed leadership is really the leadership. It has been grainy videos with Bin Laden and other bearded people and even those kind of stopped for a few years before they "got him". And if they got him in Pakistan, given the military might of the US, it is inconceivable it was impossible for them to get him in whatever caves he was supposedly hiding before that. You would think they would have captured him back in 1998 after the bombings in Kenya.

It's very hard to know what to believe and what not to....
Welcome to the darkside, breh.