new to recording vocals

[phil]

ok yall, i need a big push here.

im ready to have some homies spit some vocals and i need to know everything i need to know...........you know?

like- mic placement, compression, noise reduction, filtering, etc.... any and all help and all the do's and donts.


this is what im working with

my pc, with most imaginable software apps and plenty of plugins, (if theres any i dont have, thank god for irc!) but ill most likely be using cool edit or wavelab for recording. i cant get cubase working on my pc with my soundcard. blah, so thats no option for me.

shure ksm 27 condenser mic

seasound solo ex 24/96 hard disk recorder/soundcard

should i use the preamps built in to the soundcard or should i use the ones on my behringer mixer? what volume do i record the vocals? all the way to peak? or what? fill me in you big time pro recording mo fo's!!!

also, anyone with pc experience check my other thread regarding a pc purchase.

 

[Decoy]

monitor your vocals with the LED, make sure you aint overdriving the mixer, or your soundcard otherwise it will sound shitty....i usually make sure mine is just below the yellow warning lights on my mackie mixer, just have the person that is gonna spit start spittin and adjust the levels from there before you start recording.....you can always adjust the volume levels after you record and turn it up...i use the preamp in my mixer, and an external compressor/gate....i dont know homie..lol..hope that helps a little...1

 

[phil]

thanks, but i need more info, like what to do with it after its recorded. common processes etc...... to make it sound clean as possible. do vocals get panned?

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

You need to get a good multi-track recording program that does MIDI bro. Cakewalk, Cubase.....something. Wavelab is for wave editing and Cool Edit is a fuckin' joke. Why can't you use Cubase?

You should probably use your pre-amps on your mixer for your mic. Set your soundcard inputs up for the hottest possible signal and control everything from your hardware mixer. Always check your soundcard inputs to make sure you're not red lining though.

What I used to do (I bought a new mic pre-amp with compression built in so I don't have to worry about it now) is record my vocals right around or under the yellow lines (on your soundcard mixer)....like Decoy said. Then I would highlight them and go into my "process" functions and "normalize" them to -1 db....just to be sure there is no clipping.

From there I run my vocals grouped through some compression using the Waves L1 RCL compressor plug-in......and then over to a nice reverb using the TC Native Reverb plug-in. The settings are of course all on you....depending on what you want it to sound like.

You can also pan your vocals if you so desire.....I rarely ever do. It's nice for creating a stereo effect sometimes.

 

[HERESY]

tilt the mic OFF AXIS. track with a slight 4:1 compression setting and fast attack slow release time. EXPERIEMENT. have the vocalist rap STRAIGHT AHEAD NOT INTO THE MIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! try to angle the mic so that it comes DOWN.


after its recorded you may want to eq it (if it calls for it) but the main thing is that you use a DE-ESSER. take out those loud sssssssssssss sounds. say "sally sucks soup super slide savy" lol!!!!!! you hear all the sssssssss sounds? simbelence.(check the spelling) when you use the de esser you are going to tweak around 4k-8k.


if the vocal doesnt sound FULL add a DELAY to the vocal track but make sure this delay is LESS than 30 ms but MORE than 1 ms. this is called FATTENING.


if you want to add a different delay to make it (REPEAT) like when i say this...........when i say this..........when i say this......... you WANT it to be a MULTIPLE of the songs TEMPO or a fraction of it. also it helps to make sure that you know if the song is in 8ths 16ths etc etc etc . this will help you come to your delay number but experiment. or you can have the delay on the WHOLE NOTE.


you can also add reverb (it makes it sound like its in a hall and far away) use a lil bit of verb. not much. you can also eq your verb (i recommend that) a plate reverb or hall reverb might work. just experiment but DONT go crazy with it.


use the p popper..........and thats all i can think of right now........

as far as what pre amps to use you should use teh ones that sound the CLEANEST. track as close to 0db as possible.


you can pan the BACKGROUND VOCALS. dont pan the lead vocals.

if you DOUBLE TRACK your vocals you can pan em but you dont want an EXTREME pan setting. dont do a hard left hard right pan.
just pan em slightly.....SLIGHTLY!!!!!!





HERESY

 

[phil]

theres some kind of compatibility issue with my system and cubase, it wont run, it crashes my computer everytime i use it, no matter what version, ITS THE SAME DAMN PROBLEM TOO!!! WITH VST 32, CUBASE VST, CUBASIS, I TRIED ALL OF EM AND GET THE SAME EFFECT. I HAVE LEARNED THRU RESEARCH THAT THIS IS A COMMON PROBLEM WITH MY SOUNDCARD. oops, sorry bout the caps.

"Set your soundcard inputs up for the hottest possible signal and control everything from your hardware mixer"

so what youre saying is turn the inputs up all the way on the soundcard and just control the volume output with the mixer??


and what is the importance of recording on a program with midi??

i do all my sequencing externally with my yamaha rm1x, but ive never tried cakewalk. i heard its inferior to cubase. true? pro's cons? also whats up with sonar? is that worth checking.

thanks

 

[phil]

just saw your post heresy. how do i track them with compression? i have no outboard fx processor yet. i (my girlfriend) just blew 300 bucks on this mixer and mic for me. i didnt even ask for it so i didnt bother sweatin her about a compressor. are those alesis nano compressor midget things anygood? can i get a good, decent, acceptable compressor for under 100 to 150??? i dont need no super pro shit, but i want to make the 250 i (my girlfriend) spent on the mic worth every penny.

again yall, thanks

 

[phil]

also heresy, explain what you mean by this

have the vocalist rap STRAIGHT AHEAD NOT INTO THE MIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and

try to angle the mic so that it comes DOWN.

so get boom mic stand? this is most likely going to be in a small closet.

whats up with the shower shit. peeps been tellin me thats a good way to get natural reverb or some shit

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

"Set your soundcard inputs up for the hottest possible signal and control everything from your hardware mixer"

so what youre saying is turn the inputs up all the way on the soundcard and just control the volume output with the mixer??

and what is the importance of recording on a program with midi??

i do all my sequencing externally with my yamaha rm1x, but ive never tried cakewalk. i heard its inferior to cubase. true? pro's cons? also whats up with sonar? is that worth checking.

thanks

That sucks about Cubase. You should find something else.....try Cakewalk, Sonar.....something. You want to do your sequencing and audio in the same program.......you can make the beat on your board and import it into your program as a standard MIDI file if you don't like using the software sequencer. That way you can do all of your shit visually......which is much, much easier!

"so what youre saying is turn the inputs up all the way on the soundcard and just control the volume output with the mixer??"

You're actually controlling the mic volume INPUT that way. You want to get your system set-up a certain way and not fuck with it again. Sometimes it takes a while to tune your sytem right.....it's not an over night thing.

Recording in a program with MIDI helps eliminate alot of timing issues. You don't want to record your beat in as a stereo file and then do your vocals over it. I'll explain more later when I have time......I gotta go.

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

whats up with the shower shit. peeps been tellin me thats a good way to get natural reverb or some shit

DO NOT DO THIS. You want your vocals as clean and dry as possible so that you can sweeten them with reverb as you see fit!

 

[HERESY]

BY PHIL

also heresy, explain what you mean by this

have the vocalist rap STRAIGHT AHEAD NOT INTO THE MIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dont have the speaker speak directly into the mic. put the vocalist to the SIDE of the mic or close to the side. you can have the vocalist directly in front of the mic but dont have them speak directly INTO the mic. hav ethem stand 6-8 inchs and have them project the vocals STRAIGHT AHEAD or project them UPWARDS. this will REDUCE the ssssssssssss and will help maintain your mics performence.

so get boom mic stand? this is most likely going to be in a small closet.

i have a mic stand that isnt a boom stand but i can still position it downwards. a boom stand would be great but you dont NEED one.

just saw your post heresy. how do i track them with compression? i have no outboard fx processor yet.

since you have no outboard gear you have to track with plug ins. if not track dry (with no compression at all) and apply compression after you have recorded the tracks.

are those alesis nano compressor midget things anygood?

HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAY AWAY FROM ALL ALESIS COMPRESSORS presonus blue compressor,samson compressor and dbx 266. $150-$199 is the price range for the units i just listed.

i dont need no super pro shit, but i want to make the 250 i (my girlfriend) spent on the mic worth every penny.

look into the above units.




before you etch something in stone you should make some dummy songs or dummy mixes. i have like 8 mixes of each song and i still dont get it right. i still feel i can do better (some say im too hard on myself). make sure you track the vocalist in several areas of your room. move the mic to the corder,to a wall away from a wall etc etc etc. the rooms acoustics will make or break your sound. if you have a bad room but you know where the problem frequencies are you should be able to spit out something decent.



EXPERIMENT



heresy


ps dont do vocals in a shower unless you want it to come out like that. its natural ambience(some studios have rooms specifically for this) but it would be better to take d-sanes advice and track dry and add reverb later.

 

[Decoy]

hey heresy, i just got a dbx266 a few days ago, can you recommend how i should have it setup? thanks...

 

[HERESY]

@decoy set it up so that its INSTRUMENT/MIC--->DBX--->MIXER.

when using a compressor the THRESHOLD (THE LEVEL YOU SET) is where the compressor starts to kick in and work.
start with a simple ratio like 4:1 (ratio is set so that if it goes in at a certain amount and its HIGHER than your threshold it will come out reduced by the ratio settings you made.)

start off with a FAST attack and slow release time (if you are doing vocals). you want your ouput gain to be the SAME or MORE after the signal has passed through the compressor. you dont want the output gain too loud(it might clip even though its compressed) and you dont want the compression to SQUASH your sound and take away its dynamics. when playing with compression use your EARS and watch the METERS. if the meters are NOT moving a lot you might be overcompressed. if you HEAR the effect of compression or if it sounds SQUASHED back off and reduce some settings or change attack release times.

now i can get into more compression like soft knee,hard knee and limiting but you should be able to grasp the concept now. if not get back at me and i can explain a lil bit more.



peace.



heresy

 

[Decoy]

THANKS..I'LL CHECK IT OUT WHEN I GET HOME, I GOT MY MIC RUNNIN THREW MY MIXER THOUGH (CHANNEL 1), AND THEN THE DBX RUNNIN THREW AUX, AND THEN BACK THREW A SEPERATE CHANNEL...I DONT HAVE PHANTOM POWER IF I RUN TO THE COMPRESSOR FIRST...SO THATS WHY I DO IT LIKE THAT...IS THAT A PROBLEM AT ALL?

 

[HERESY]

THANKS..I'LL CHECK IT OUT WHEN I GET HOME, I GOT MY MIC RUNNIN THREW MY MIXER THOUGH (CHANNEL 1), AND THEN THE DBX RUNNIN THREW AUX, AND THEN BACK THREW A SEPERATE CHANNEL...I DONT HAVE PHANTOM POWER IF I RUN TO THE COMPRESSOR FIRST...SO THATS WHY I DO IT LIKE THAT...IS THAT A PROBLEM AT ALL?

no it shouldnt be a problem in fact thats how my homeboys set up works. as long as you can track with the compression its cool. you may want to track dry add compression and BOUNCE it to a seperate track. i use onboard compression(with the roland),plug ins and sometimes a dbx (microphone-->external pre-->dbx-->roland vs). another way i use it is without phantom power. i use an akg c1000(can be powered with a battery or phantom power) and set it up so that its (mic-->compressor-->roland vs).


let me know how things work out 4 u.


heresy



ps decoy did you go to the GANGSTA REESE record release party?????????? you kinda look like the bald head white guy who introduced me to cool ass rob. dude was cool as hell. that wasnt you was it????????

 

[MOESES SOULRIGHT THE 2nd]

heresy
can you explain the soft knee-1-2-3-4-5-hard knee to me??

 

[Decoy]

no it shouldnt be a problem in fact thats how my homeboys set up works. as long as you can track with the compression its cool. you may want to track dry add compression and BOUNCE it to a seperate track. i use onboard compression(with the roland),plug ins and sometimes a dbx (microphone-->external pre-->dbx-->roland vs). another way i use it is without phantom power. i use an akg c1000(can be powered with a battery or phantom power) and set it up so that its (mic-->compressor-->roland vs).


let me know how things work out 4 u.


heresy



ps decoy did you go to the GANGSTA REESE record release party?????????? you kinda look like the bald head white guy who introduced me to cool ass rob. dude was cool as hell. that wasnt you was it????????

right on, thanks...i'll let you know when i record next how it works out...btw..that wasnt me...i didnt make it to that party...i'm sure i'll see ya around though...1