dsane!!! heresy!!!!

[phil]

ok d sane, heresy. help me out here. i just got me a new system consisting of the following.

amd 1700 athlon
gigabyte ga 7vtxh+ motherboard
512 mb ddr ram
40 gb hard drive
seasound solo ex 24/96
windows 98se (xp is not an option)

the only thing is, the hard drive is 5400 rpm. on a scale of 1 to 10 how important is the speed of the hard drive, and should i upgrade ? if so what to?

also, i am wondering if i can monitor my vocals in realtime on cubase vst 32? i am getting terrible latency. is there a such thing as zero latency monitoring or am i going to have to get an outboard fx processor? there is no latency without fx and im pretty sure it wont matter once its recorded but i want to hear it exactly like its going to sound. thanks.

any links to cubase tutorials would be greatly appreciated. i just started with the program last night.

 

[phil]

ok i just realized that there is latency without the fx too. help

 

[Sick Wid It]

the only thing is, the hard drive is 5400 rpm. on a scale of 1 to 10 how important is the speed of the hard drive, and should i upgrade ? if so what to?

About the harddrive speed. Its very important. If you are multi-tracking to harddisk, make sure its to a drive that has preferrably an average seek time of <8ns. Use 7200rpm drives. They spin faster and can get to the data quicker. From first hand experience, you can move a LOT more information in the same amount of time. You cant go 100% on specs either. Its good to talk to someone who uses the actual hardware. I recently had a multi-track session that was over 50+ stereo audio tracks in 32bit/48khz. The drive didnt show any sign of trouble handling that. So.....yes, you should upgrade the drive and to one thats 7200rpm. The IBM 60gig 7200rpm's perform extremely well in an audio environment as well as the maxtor 80gig 7200rpm's.

also, i am wondering if i can monitor my vocals in realtime on cubase vst 32? i am getting terrible latency. is there a such thing as zero latency monitoring or am i going to have to get an outboard fx processor? there is no latency without fx and im pretty sure it wont matter once its recorded but i want to hear it exactly like its going to sound. thanks.

Yes, you can monitor your vocals in VST. There is no such thing as zero latency. That would mean that as soon as a signal hit the mic, it would take zero time to travel from the mic to the computer which is impossible since all wire has resistance. Look in your audio cards driver configuration for latency settings as well as the ASIO drivers (if you use ASIO). You can, with the right setup get your latency down to about 2ms. Thats what Im getting and Im guessing I could actually get 1ms but there isnt a setting in the drivers to go any lower. 2ms latency is undetectable. Buying an outboard fx processor will solve your problem but so will recording dry vocals and applying effects afterwards. You always want to start with dry vocals and build around them. Instead of applying effects to the vocals, apply the effect to the track the vocals sit on. You can hear it 'exactly like its going to sound' when you mixdown and if there is anything you dont like, you can play with the settings all day until you get what you want.

I talked about this in my forum on the og BART board called "Behind The Scenes *tech tips from the pros*". It wouldnt hurt to dig through the message archives because I gave up a lot of information in there.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

[phil]

how do i find these archives? i was never a member of the old bart board.

thanks

 

[HERESY]

sic wid it answered your questions. i use 2 maxtor drives. one is 13 gig 5400 rpm. the other is 40 gig 7200 rpm. what i did was partition the 40 gig drive. that way it doesnt have to read the entire disc. only a portion. heres another thing to look into. how many bits will you be recording at? 16? 20?24?32????? the more bits you have the larger the file.


some specs will say "zero latency". only thing i have to say about that is who knows???? i think that can go into the digital vs analog, 24 bit vs 16 bit,logic vs cubase,neve vs ssl,mac vs pc catergory. some will say it doesnt exist. some will say it does.

why dont you try moving your cards latency slider down to zero and see what happens.


make sure your mobo/chipset combo doesnt have floater issues.

if you have issues (floater issues,low ram,slow processor) you may want to go with outboard gear.

@sick wid it who have you worked with? you have a lot of game playboy.

stay up phil.



:H:

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

lol......yeah.....what they said.

Nice to see Sick Wid It back on the scene as well.......

 

[DeviantJR]

If you're slaving a 7200 RPM Hard Drive to a 5400 RPM, or vice versa, you're only going to get 5400 RPM on both.

 

[HERESY]

^^^^^ if that comment was for me who said anything about slaving the drives? i use a dual boot system also. 98se and xp pro..........



heresy


ps can you explain to these good people why it will read at the slower speed??? thanx a million.

 

[phil]

i have a 24 bit 96k soundcard but i usually just keep it at the cd standard 16 bit. my old system introduced a lot of cracking and popping whenever i tried it so i havent even gave it a shot yet. what are the benefits to it and what are the processes of converting the signal back to cd standard specs. that must be done i assume? also i was thinking about picking up one of those 100 dollar behringer compressors or the dbx 266 for 150. which should i get? or should i get a separate compressor specialized for the vocals. i remember heresy stating once that it is better to track vocals with compression rather than apply post recording.



also i have solved the hard drive issue. the shop i purchased the computer from was happy to exchange the h.d. at no extra charge.

if anyone is using reason and has access to refills hit me up. thanks yall.

[email protected]

 

[DeviantJR]

Heresy - It was directed at anyone that's linking up their drives that way. You know, I have no idea why it does this, all I know is when I was hookin em up, that's what I was told, so I was just passing along the info.

Phil - I made a grip of my own refills. Unfortunately I don't really have internet access on the computer that I keep that shit on... you can try www.reasonstation.net or if you want sometime, we can trade some refills... I'll burn em to a cd for ya.

 

[DeviantJR]

I made a few patches on my Kurzweil too, if anyone has a K2600 and wants to trade, let me know.

 

[HERESY]

hey jr hows it going? what may slow down the hd is if you have cd rom and hdd on the same ide cable. slaving will not slow the speed down.

@phil with those specs you have now you should be able to record at 24 bit 96khz. the *average* cd player wont play that format so your going to have to dither.

now the whole 24 bit 16 bit thing is up for debate. you have people who have engineered or produced platinum records saying RECORD AT A HIGH RESOLUTION. on the other hand you have people who have engineered or produced platinum records saying IT DOESNT MATTER YOU ARE GOING TO DITHER ANYWAY.

its not etched in stone is what im saying. sorta like monitors. do you stand em upright or do you lay em on the side with the tweeters out?

maybe the bits will come in handy when you dither.....

*maybe those extra bits will come in handy when you make EDITS and SAVE the processed file*.......

the more bits you use the more hd space to be used.

i would go with the dbx compressor. tracking with compression allows you get the signal really hot. im not into the "LOUD IS BETTER" mindset. im more into preserving dynamics and what not. i dont like a SQUASHED sound. if you can HEAR the compression effect you may want to back off of it.

what i do is compress certain instruments when tracking and i compress the vocals. at the mix down stage i MIGHT add some slight compression to the over all mix. if its not broke dont fix it.


i have reason. i dont use it. the sequencer is really weak......



:H:

 

[DeviantJR]

i have reason. i dont use it. the sequencer is really weak......

So says Heresy

I love the sequencer in Reason, it's easy to automate anything in there. Then again, maybe my version of Cubase sucks (the only other MIDI sequencer I have to compare to)

 

[phil]

i too like the sequencer, but its the only one ive used on the software end of the spectrum. pretty easy once i figured out how to record into it.

I love the sequencer in Reason, it's easy to automate anything in there.

 

[DeviantJR]

I just wish I could multitrack record in there, it'd be perfect. ACtually if I could use VSTs (without having to rewire it into Cubase/Logic/Nuendo) and I could record outside audio, that would make it completely self contained.

 

[HERESY]

cubase sx is out (its being advertised). does anyone here have it??????


:H:

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

cubase sx is out (its being advertised). does anyone here have it??????


:H:

IT'S OUT!!!!

I've been trying to find it all day today on the net.......I've had no luck. I may get a copy from my boy at Guitar Center though....as soon as he can make a copy.

I did manage to find the BETA version of it on Kazaa.....but that's it.

 

[Sick Wid It]

Cubase SX was released commercially but it hasnt been cracked yet.

 

[Sick Wid It]

hey jr hows it going? what may slow down the hd is if you have cd rom and hdd on the same ide cable. slaving will not slow the speed down.

That won't slow anything down either. I don't know where all this slaving-slows-stuff-down shit came from but it's not true at all. I know that from first hand experience.

now the whole 24 bit 16 bit thing is up for debate. you have people who have engineered or produced platinum records saying RECORD AT A HIGH RESOLUTION. on the other hand you have people who have engineered or produced platinum records saying IT DOESNT MATTER YOU ARE GOING TO DITHER ANYWAY.

My ears have told me, yes, it does matter if you are going to do any kind of effects processing, resampling, whatever, on the audio digitally. Simply put, the more bits you have to manipulate, the better the (quality) resolution is going to be with whatever processing you are doing. You have more dynamic representation, period. There's nothing to debate about that, it's proven mathematics.

maybe the bits will come in handy when you dither.....

Without getting into it, yes! You can record into 24 or 32 bit, dither down to 16 and have a higher quality piece of audio than if you just recorded straight into 16 bit. Depending on the dithering technique you use, you can hear a big difference.

 

[HERESY]

That won't slow anything down either. I don't know where all this slaving-slows-stuff-down shit came from but it's not true at all. I know that from first hand experience.

that was told to me by the guy who built my pc.....this is also the same guy who told me it was going to be $600 to upgrade from a 475 to a 800........

i havent had any problems slaving anything. i try to keep everything on its on channel,track,cable etc etc etc. its like midi. you dont want to "daisy chain" a lot of modules and synths. get a midi interface.

My ears have told me, yes, it does matter if you are going to do any kind of effects processing, resampling, whatever, on the audio digitally. Simply put, the more bits you have to manipulate, the better the (quality) resolution is going to be with whatever processing you are doing. You have more dynamic representation, period. There's nothing to debate about that, it's proven mathematics.

YOUR ears have been TRAINED to listen. the "average joe" doesnt even know when he is listening in mono or stereo. when i find the link to the homerecording.com test i will post it for you. they did a test on 24bit recordings and 16 bit recordings. maybe you can listen for yourself and see if a difference exists.

we can go into the proven mathmatics all day long. nothing has been etched in stone. you have people that endorse 16 bit who will come with a math formula as well.......

until the AVERAGE JOE gets his hand on a 24 or 32 bit cd player that plays 96k or higher does it really matter? 5000000 bits or 666k. a person who doesnt know what they are doing can STILL make it sound like crap.....

Without getting into it, yes! You can record into 24 or 32 bit, dither down to 16 and have a higher quality piece of audio than if you just recorded straight into 16 bit. Depending on the dithering technique you use, you can hear a big difference.

yes that is 100% correct......when i type "maybe" and type "................" im usually saying "hint hint". i want to leave it up to the person to get dirty and try to experiment.


@dsane how was the BETA version?????




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