ATTN: B.A.R.T. (Questions) on the fallowing Subjects...[Important 2 Me]

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S

Selph Made

Sicc OG
#1
Jan 10, 2004
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#1
Okay, I have a few questions that I would more then appreciate if answerd...

Putting out mixtapes using non original beats ( Dre,Neptunes,Timbo)...Legal? I've notice tons and tons of mixtapes being pushed out there...and have always wonderd what the Law of this shit is..I looked up on it like last year..and something about having a mechanical license is important...what is the proper way of going about pressing cds and having them out there without getting sued up the ass? and is it worth it? I'm just curious....


tryina test the temperature of the water before i go skinny dippin if you feel what im sayin....


so if you can answer it and drop your 2 cents it would be appreciated...


thank yall... :siccness:
 
S

Selph Made

Sicc OG
#2
Jan 10, 2004
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#2
This is actually important to me!!!....

STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO ALL OTHER THREADS AND ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS ONE!!! lol...nah but frealz..anyone got answers?...


holla...
 
Sydal

Sydal

Sicc OG
#4
Apr 25, 2002
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#4
It would be better, IMO, to hand the shit out for free (for promotional use) if you're gonna go that route. If you don't REPRODUCE the beat in your own studio, and you're not making money off of it, I don't think a whole lot can be done about it. It's good promotion, you can even use Industry beats on demo's that you send in to record labels.

If somebody sued you for handing out free promo copies to get your name out there, then they forgot where they came from, cause EVERYBODY has done at least one song over an industry beat!!
 
S

Selph Made

Sicc OG
#5
Jan 10, 2004
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#5
okay...but i aint about to pay 600 hundred bucks to get like 500 cds pressed just to give that shit out....i already paid my dues of giving shit out for free...now im tryina make petty cash back...so just use original beats?


and this goes for the cats that use mp3 and soundclick beats cause its just as bad....
 
GHP

GHP

Sicc OG
#6
Jul 21, 2002
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#6
I believe its ok if you just make them for promotional use and sell the albums at scale so you just make your money back.
 
S

Selph Made

Sicc OG
#7
Jan 10, 2004
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#7
true mixtapes is corny now...

i been doin parodies before G Unit came (not to sound high above) im just tryina say that this is something i liked doin before it was a faze....but im sure alot did too...but yea i think its corny i was just curious....


and the no cd-r thing...ofcourse...

i aint gonna lease no beat unless the shits mine....

how the fuck u gonna lease a beat? thats like 'hey kids lets play pretend this beat is yours..but its really not' im straight off that shit...
 
Pimperoni

Pimperoni

Sicc OG
#8
Apr 25, 2002
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#8
I like it when a no-name bay rapper does a song over a "popular beat" That's the only mixtape I even try to listen to from the bay.. (with exception to a good scratching DJ presenting new material)

That's my opinion
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#13
Apr 25, 2002
2,207
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#13
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"Putting out mixtapes using non original beats ( Dre,Neptunes,Timbo)...Legal?"
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NO. Making -any- recorded material available for public consumption without licensing to do so is strickly against the law. Whether or not you are making a profit is *IRRELEVANT AND DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING*. That means you ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE even if you are using the stuff 'for promotional use only'.


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"what is the proper way of going about pressing cds and having them out there without getting sued up the ass? and is it worth it?"
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The proper and legal way to do it is to obtain usage licensing from the owner. Whether or not it's worth it depends on what you consider to be an 'acceptable risk'.


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"If you don't REPRODUCE the beat in your own studio, and you're not making money off of it, I don't think a whole lot can be done about it."
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This is a big misconception and it's WRONG. Refer to my first answer for details.


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"It's good promotion, you can even use Industry beats on demo's that you send in to record labels."
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No, it's not good promotion and using commercial music on your demo is frowned upon. Label executives, A&R's, etc typically want to hear *original works*, not you rapping over your favorite beats.


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"If somebody sued you for handing out free promo copies to get your name out there, then they forgot where they came from, cause EVERYBODY has done at least one song over an industry beat!!"
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Maybe... Or they simply don't approve of people stealing and using their works without permission. No matter how you try to justify it, theft is theft and it's illegal. Fuck anyone who wants to argue that.


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"how the fuck u gonna lease a beat?"
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A licensing agreement and a lease are basically the same thing. However, licensing agreements tend to grant -exclusive- usage rights while a lease doesn't.


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"Yeah the idea of mixtapes is that they are supposed to be free or for promotional use only."
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Maybe initially but obviously they can generate an income so why not?


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..."unless you got the homie who wouldnt mind plugging you with the #'s for the managers of Eminem, Jay-Z, Lil Flip, 50 Cent, and so on. And even then, they'd probably tell you to fuck off and hang up on you."
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Probably, but you'ld still want to make the call simply because you don't know what they'ld say.

So...... Anymore questions?
 
Sydal

Sydal

Sicc OG
#14
Apr 25, 2002
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www.idealsentertainment.com
#14
Sick Wid It said:
NO. Making -any- recorded material available for public consumption without licensing to do so is strickly against the law. Whether or not you are making a profit is *IRRELEVANT AND DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING*. That means you ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE even if you are using the stuff 'for promotional use only'.
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I dunno man, Copyright law prohibits the REPRODUCTION and/or PUBLIC PERFORMANCE of a copywritten work without written consent. This would most likely depend on the judge you get in a copyright case. Some judges would find it ridiculous if you try to sue somebody for promoting themselves and making no money off of your work. Public CONSUMPTION...keywords. CONSUMERS pay for goods or services...if they aren't paying for the goods, it is questionable!!

About the demo thing, yea it's frowned upon. HOWEVER, I've had meetings with A&R's and if you come TIGHT over an industry beat, they will still consider signing you, depending on how MARKETABLE you are. Let's not forget here, not all rappers have the $$ for original production, they have to rely strictly on their skills as an MC and MARKETABILITY!!

The promotional use of an industry beat is questionable though. Like I said, it depends on the judge you're standing in front of.
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#15
Apr 25, 2002
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#15
Sydal said:
I dunno man, Copyright law prohibits the REPRODUCTION and/or PUBLIC PERFORMANCE of a copywritten work without written consent. This would most likely depend on the judge you get in a copyright case. Some judges would find it ridiculous if you try to sue somebody for promoting themselves and making no money off of your work. Public CONSUMPTION...keywords. CONSUMERS pay for goods or services...if they aren't paying for the goods, it is questionable!!
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WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. First of all, "public consumption" means "made available to the public", REGARDLESS of whether or not its for-profit or given away free of charge. Secondly, your opinions on what's ridiculous and what isn't hold ZERO legal weight.

Rather than taking uneducated guesses at what you THINK may be true, just study up on the relative laws, research cases based on the subject at hand and talk to some entertainment lawyers who deal with theft of intellectual property. You'll find out real quick that this is not a grey area of the law.


About the demo thing, yea it's frowned upon. HOWEVER, I've had meetings with A&R's and if you come TIGHT over an industry beat, they will still consider signing you, depending on how MARKETABLE you are. Let's not forget here, not all rappers have the $$ for original production, they have to rely strictly on their skills as an MC and MARKETABILITY!!

The promotional use of an industry beat is questionable though. Like I said, it depends on the judge you're standing in front of.
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9.5 times out of 10, a demo doesn't reflect how marketable someone is. Secondly, you are mistaken if you think the music industry places much value on a rappers "skills as an MC". A rappers "skills" are not a very powerful marketing tool.

About the 'promotional use' comment. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. Again, illegal use of intellectual property is not some mysterious realm of law. PLEASE read up on the definition of "fair-use". Mixtapes, whether for profit or not, and anything else used as 'promotional' materials, clearly DO NOT fall under fair-use.

The law is very clear on this so I'll say it again because cats really need to understand this:

Using someones intellectual property without the proper licensing to do so is strickly against the law. Whether or not there's a profit involved is *COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT* according to law.

Yes, beats and verses are intellectual property.
 
Sydal

Sydal

Sicc OG
#16
Apr 25, 2002
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#16
Yea, I know what intellectual property is. I know how copyrights work, all my material is COPYWRITTEN. I have a manager, I know lawyers, I know contracts, and I know the law. I understand that it is illegal to use somebody's shit, I totally understand that. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about because I've had property stolen from me and used FOR PROFIT, and I have spoken to lawyers about the situation. If you CAN'T prove that you've suffered ANY loss, you're taking a risk going to court over it, plain and simple. Yea, the laws are simple, that doesn't mean they protect you, know what I'm sayin? You have to basically PROVE that damage has been done to your business!!

About the demo shit, I think I made it perfectly clear that you have to be marketable. Read my post, why do you think the shit is in CAPS? Record labels want a certain look, a certain lifestyle portrayed, and somebody who can do what they tell you....on top of that, you need to have some kind of skill. If you don't write your shit, you need a voice and delivery. If you can't DELIVER behind a microphone, everything else gets flushed down the toilet, plain and simple.
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#18
Apr 25, 2002
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#18
Sydal said:
Yea, I know what intellectual property is. I know how copyrights work, all my material is COPYWRITTEN. I have a manager, I know lawyers, I know contracts, and I know the law. I understand that it is illegal to use somebody's shit, I totally understand that. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about because I've had property stolen from me and used FOR PROFIT, and I have spoken to lawyers about the situation. If you CAN'T prove that you've suffered ANY loss, you're taking a risk going to court over it, plain and simple. Yea, the laws are simple, that doesn't mean they protect you, know what I'm sayin? You have to basically PROVE that damage has been done to your business!!
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I don't know man. You claim to understand the laws, contracts, copyrights, consult with lawyers and so on but honestly, you hardly sound like you know what you're talking about. Also, proving damages is ridiculously easy and if your lawyer couldn't do that for you, time to get a new lawyer!


About the demo shit, I think I made it perfectly clear that you have to be marketable. Read my post, why do you think the shit is in CAPS? Record labels want a certain look, a certain lifestyle portrayed, and somebody who can do what they tell you....on top of that, you need to have some kind of skill. If you don't write your shit, you need a voice and delivery. If you can't DELIVER behind a microphone, everything else gets flushed down the toilet, plain and simple.
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Tell that to J-Kwon who is mediocre on his very best day and William Hung who is absolutely horrible on his. According to your theory on 'delivering behind a microphone', both should have been flushed down the toilet but yet neither of them was. How would you explain that without contradicting yourself?
 
O

og MS

Member since 1997
#19
Apr 25, 2002
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www.killavalley.com
#19
lol @ Sick Wid It....

Yea on a past post I said regardless if the mixtape is sold or not... beat jackin is still beat jackin... Most of the time people don't get hit up because the major labels and producers aren't aware of it and don't have the time to sue everyone on a smaller scale
 
Sydal

Sydal

Sicc OG
#20
Apr 25, 2002
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www.idealsentertainment.com
#20
Sick Wid It said:
Tell that to J-Kwon who is mediocre on his very best day and William Hung who is absolutely horrible on his. According to your theory on 'delivering behind a microphone', both should have been flushed down the toilet but yet neither of them was. How would you explain that without contradicting yourself?
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J-Kwon obviously has something behind a mic that the people at his record label want, right? William Hung, BAD EXAMPLE...everybody KNOWS he's gettin his because the people ate him up. If he didn't do what he did on American Idol, nobody would give a shit. BUT, since people loved him so much for some reason, he's gettin paid. He's also not an MC. HOWEVER, he has HEART and CHARISMA that people obviously couldn't pass up. The dude is a pawn, period, and these people found a way to make money off him, plain and simple. Everybody who is famous right now, is famous for a reason. They are marketable, which is #1 on the list, and they have some kind of delivery that people like, or that people can grow to like. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

And NO, proving damages is NOT easy if no damage is done. FINANCIAL LOSS should be proven, and if a lawyer went and "proved" financial loss when there was none, he's an ass anyway, ESPECIALLY in this case.

We can debate this 'til we're both blue in the face. I "know what I know", and you "know what you know". This very case is questionable. I'm not saying you'd WIN or LOSE in court, but it's questionable!! Depends on the lawyers involved, the judge, all things need to be considered!! If it's straight theft of material and you're making $$, thats a different story.
 
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