UN court to rule 'against Israel'

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May 13, 2002
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The International Court of Justice in The Hague is understood to have decided that Israel's West Bank barrier is illegal and should be removed.

The court has now started reading out its ruling. Leaked reports say it will call on the United Nations to consider what action is required.



Israel insists the barrier is needed to keep out West Bank militants. The Palestinians consider it a land grab.

The court's decision is not binding, but can serve as a basis for UN action.



The ICJ began issuing its ruling at 1300GMT, in a reading expected to take more than two hours.

In the first part of the reading, the court rejected Israel's argument that it has no right to rule on the legality of the barrier.

Several countries, including the US and UK, had argued the court should stay out of the issue, warning that any opinion it gives could interfere with the Middle East peace process.

The White House reiterated its opinion as the ruling was under way, saying the ICJ was not the appropriate forum for resolving a political issue. But the court has rejected that argument.

According to a leaked copy of the report, seen by Reuters and reported in the Israeli press, the court has decided the construction of the barrier is against international law.

The current route of the barrier cannot be justified for military needs, the leaked report says.

"The wall, along the route chosen, and its associated regime, gravely infringe a number of rights of Palestinians residing in the territory occupied by Israel, and the infringements resulting from that route cannot be justified by military exigencies or by the requirements of national security or public order," the leaked report says.

The ICJ has said it will publish the official report on its website after the ruling.

Rest of Article
 
Jul 24, 2002
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You know what's interesting 2-0?

The UN said that what Israel is doing is only illegal because the wall's extending too much into Palestinian land.
Meaning that if Israel pulls back a bit, it will be fine with them....

Weak....
 

attay

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2002
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Several countries, including the US and UK, had argued the court should stay out of the issue, warning that any opinion it gives could interfere with the Middle East peace process.
Yeah, the peace process is really showing tangible results.
 
May 16, 2004
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The UN has absolutely no credibility.

They have yet to condemn a single Palestinian suicide bombing, yet Israel can't spit on the ground without the UN issuing a formal condemnation.
 
May 16, 2002
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Fistacuffs said:
The UN has absolutely no credibility.

They have yet to condemn a single Palestinian suicide bombing, yet Israel can't spit on the ground without the UN issuing a formal condemnation.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/SGSM8575.doc.htm
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/sgsm8311.doc.htm
http://www.un.org/apps/news/storyAr.asp?NewsID=6616&Cr=middle&Cr1=east
http://www.un.org/apps/news/storyAr.asp?NewsID=5426&Cr=middle&Cr1=east
http://www.un.org/News/ossg/sg/pages/sg_me.htm
http://www.un.org/av/radio/news/2004/mar/04031500.htm
http://www.un.org/News/ossg/sg/pages/sg_me_2003.htm
http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=459
http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2004/db013004.doc.htm
http://www.un.org/apps/sg/offthecuff.asp?nid=43

Want more?

I can't really blame you for your ignorance though, the right-wing christian and zionist lobby is incredible powerful in the US and it's not possible if you're a politician or a news outlet to report or bring up anything that makes Israel looks bad.
The US is the only country in the world that ignore or support the massive human rights violations that Israel is responsible for.

My advice is to get your news from BBC in the future.

Some interesting articles :
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040712&s=kaplan
http://www.harpers.org/NoExit.html

And here is Amnesty's report on the wall :
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150162004
 
May 16, 2004
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Anyone half-wit could tell you Israel is doing fucked up things. I support Israel, and I'll be the first to admit their violations of human rights.

The thing is, liberals always dismiss Palestianian suicide bombings as a natural reaction to Israel's occupation of Palestine, thus implying that the bombings are justified.

As evidenced by the ruling on the wall and Israel's reaction to the ruling, i.e. changing the plans for it, shows that they are open to reason and negotiation, and are showing concern for human rights.

When's the last time the Palestinian government did any of those things?
 
May 16, 2002
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#8
Fistacuffs said:
Anyone half-wit could tell you Israel is doing fucked up things. I support Israel, and I'll be the first to admit their violations of human rights.

The thing is, liberals always dismiss Palestianian suicide bombings as a natural reaction to Israel's occupation of Palestine, thus implying that the bombings are justified.

As evidenced by the ruling on the wall and Israel's reaction to the ruling, i.e. changing the plans for it, shows that they are open to reason and negotiation, and are showing concern for human rights.

When's the last time the Palestinian government did any of those things?

First you must understand that the I/P issue isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue it's a the US vs. the World issue, even Hillary Clinton is an ignorant fuck when it comes to being an apartheid apologist.

Israel don't give a fuck about the International Court of Justice (just like Saddam did) since they knew the US would support them no matter what they did, the decision to reroute a tiny bit of the wall was taken before the hague ruling by Israel's High Court. It was a small step in the right direction but it's still a long way to go.

Poverty is a enormous problem amongst palestinians (50% live for less than $2 a day) and that combined with the IDF destroying palestinian farmland makes it even more difficult to achieve peace.

From a BBC news article about the wall :

The Israeli government says this, too, is necessary to stop suicide bombers.

According to the Israeli economist, Arie Arnon, there is also another objective.

"Israelis will not admit it," he says, "but it was part of the pressure put on the Palestinians in order to convince them to stop the uprising".

"It was based on a very stupid but well-known idea that by putting economic pressure on the population, the population will somehow convince those who instigate the violence to stop it," he says.

"[This is] not understanding that the violence is the outcome of a consensus on the Palestinian side - to use violence in order to change the political situation."

This severe economic hardship deepens well-established labour patterns.

"When Israel is looking for labour to build the new fence, it is looking for cheap labour," says Mr Arnon.

"So they look around and find they can have very cheap labour on the Palestinian side, so they use it."

"In this sense it is nothing new or novel. It may be more extreme now, because now they are building the walls of their prison, the walls for the new siege, which is ironic."
Do you believe the ghettos here in the US will become less violent if people were even poorer?

A lot of people doesn't realize that Hamas is divided in two main spheres, one which is the militant one that carries out suicide bombings on soldiers and innocent civilians and the other is a kind of Salvation Army institution that builds schools and hospitals and provides healthcare, education and food to poverty stricken palestinians. Arafat is basically on house arrest and can't do shit so a lot of palestinians need Hamas to survive.
So when Israel tries to starve out the violence it only gives more support to Hamas and creates more human suffering on both sides.

Another problem with the wall is that it will be impossible to create a viable palestinian state when it's finished and that will crush the hope of a two-state solution, so that means that the palestinians will have to aim for equal citizenship and the right to vote instead.
In ten years or so the palestinians will outnumber the israelies and then Israel will have the choice of not longer being a jewish state (giving the palestinians the right to vote) or not longer be a democracy (denying palestinians the right to vote).

The wall destroys the hope of both a palestinian state and a democratic jewish state.
 
Nov 10, 2002
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Very good points Droopy Eye. Thanks for the links.

You mentioned the abject poverty of the Palestinian areas, and even more specifically, unemployment is huge in that region. People, for a large part, cannot get jobs because the most central intersections of the region are controlled and shut off by the occupation forces and/or reserved to Israeli ”colonies” (the ”Road Map” peace plan, led by the US). Commerce with other countries is near non-existent, because borders are surveilled with extreme care by Israeli troops, AND like the article you quoted pointed out, almost ALL commerce is with Israel, where palestinians basically serve as cheap labour.

And when it comes to resolving the crisis, it can be said that Israel has the real power to bring about change, even though it is a participatory process requiring both sides to act. Because the armed forces of Israel have been unable to prevent terrorism and the Palestinian government can’t strip the extremist element of arms, the ONLY possible solution to ”calm” the situation would be to PREVENT the conditions which breed terrorism – i.e. abject poverty etc.

The wall does not help to achieve this goal.

Fistacuffs said:
As evidenced by the ruling on the wall and Israel's reaction to the ruling, i.e. changing the plans for it, shows that they are open to reason and negotiation, and are showing concern for human rights.
Like Droopy said, a small step in the right direction, but please note that this, in recent history, has not been common behavior from the Israeli government.

Also, I haven’t had time to look into the current situation, but in recent times Sharon’s government has started to face pressure to do SOMETHING, at least seemingly, to ensure peace. The High Command of the Israeli Army has criticized Sharon and the Liqud party quite straightforwardly and some of the army’s officers have refuse to serve in the occupied areas – not to mention that the objective of the Labor Party is to create a somewhat better peace plan. So, Sharon is in a sense also fighting for votes.

Fistacuffs said:
The thing is, liberals always dismiss Palestianian suicide bombings as a natural reaction to Israel's occupation of Palestine, thus implying that the bombings are justified.
Justified? No. Understandable, when examining their origins? Yes. It must first be known how desperate and miserable life is in the occupied territories to understand why so many Palestinians commit these suicide-bombings.

Fistacuffs said:
The UN has absolutely no credibility.
USA’s almost unconditional support for Israel is the main reason for crumbling the organization’s credibility. NUMEROUS resolutions would already have been made regarding the issue unless USA had not prevented them with its veto-right. It’s a matter of power politics. Israel is USA’s closest allies, and for two reasons: Its vital location near the world’s richest oil areas and a powerful army.