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WHITE DEVIL

Sicc OG
#1
Dec 25, 2003
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#1
206 I know you hold the view that Communism does not believe in / allow for private property. In fact, all of my readings have led me to an entirely different conclusion - that private ownership of the means of capital production is essentially illegal and antithetical, but that private porperty ownership is not. In fact Stalin even reiterates this in the link CB posted. I'm pretty sure that was what was envisioned by Communism - not all abolishment of private property, but as Stalin put it:

"abolishing the principle of private property in the means of production"


In other words, anything that makes money must be community-owned, but say a house or a lamp does not.
 
W

WHITE DEVIL

Sicc OG
#3
Dec 25, 2003
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#3
This is where a degree of interpretation comes in - if you owned 99% of the country, likely you would have some share in the capital assets of the country. Under a redistribution of wealth, you would more than likely be subject to confiscation and reappropriation.

Communism definitely establishes a tier system in a pre-Communist country...the assets of the bourgeois can and must be reallocated in the name of the community, thus you would likely be subject to redistribution.

But where I believe this applies is on a micro scale - Communism believes in redirection of the shoe factory and the shoe factory employees, not *necessarily* the redirection of shoes already owned by the people, though shoes produced at the factory under the new system would be subject to state ownership.
 
MEXCOM

MEXCOM

Sicc OG
#7
Feb 9, 2003
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#7
All types of private property? Or just private property with a potential to produce income or other needed produce? Because in all honesty I find it hard to believe that we could all share EVERYTHING.
 
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WHITE DEVIL

Sicc OG
#8
Dec 25, 2003
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#8
MEXICANCOMMANDO said:
All types of private property? Or just private property with a potential to produce income or other needed produce? Because in all honesty I find it hard to believe that we could all share EVERYTHING.
Click to expand...
This is what I'm saying. Nowhere in Marx, Engels, or elsewhere do I see advocation for complete state ownership of everything.
 
ColdBlooded

ColdBlooded

Sicc OG
#10
Apr 25, 2002
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#10
They never advocate complete state ownership under communism because . . .

In a communist society there is no State, how would the state be able to own anything if it doesn't exist?
 
MEXCOM

MEXCOM

Sicc OG
#11
Feb 9, 2003
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#11
Who would enforce these rules/restrictions? The people? And if so what if 'the people' have opposing views? Such as in "capital punishment?"
 
ColdBlooded

ColdBlooded

Sicc OG
#12
Apr 25, 2002
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#12
There is no abolition of property or the idea of ownership only the abolition of private property or the idea of private ownership.

If the people control(or own) the means of production communally they also control(or own) the product communally as well. Which is why in a perfectly achieved communist society there can be no private property. Everything is created by the community thus owned by the community.
 
m.w.merlino

m.w.merlino

Sicc OG
#13
Dec 18, 2002
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#13
No, you have it right devil. Under a communist structure, the appropriation of ownership depends on the CAPITAL GAINED from ownership. It is logically the opposite of capitalism, you cannot (legally) walk into a store, take an item off the shelf and then sell it as your own. Communism entitles (in my head) the ownership of a product RELATIVE to its status as either GOODS/SERVICES and personal use. That may not be clear but it makes sense in my head.
 
W

WHITE DEVIL

Sicc OG
#14
Dec 25, 2003
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#14
So there is a delineation between active, producing / produced capital and smaller, trivial, "inactive" capital goods? Shit now i have to read Marx...I despise most philosophy.
 
JoMoDo

JoMoDo

Sicc OG
#18
Jul 10, 2002
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#18
this comment is besides the point, but here it goes anyway...
my fiance (who is from the Ukraine, formally communist USSR) who's stood in line for shoes, and other commodities (remembering when mayonaise would become available, her mom would hide it for months to give as a b-day present) but the difference between the communisim she expierienced versus the now-free trade society is that 'during communisim everyone has money, but there are no goods to buy, now in the free market there are plenty of goods, but no one has any money' just thought I'd share that w/ y'all...
 
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