The Usual Condemer's

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Jul 10, 2002
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Jul. 22, 2006 22:49 | Updated Jul. 23, 2006 19:05
The predictable condemners
By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ

The Hizbullah and Hamas provocations against Israel once again demonstrate how terrorists exploit human rights and the media in their attacks on democracies.

By hiding behind their own civilians the Islamic radicals issue a challenge to democracies: Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians.

This challenge presents democracies such as Israel with a lose-lose option, and the terrorists with a win-win option.

There is one variable that could change this dynamic and present democracies with a viable option that could make terrorism less attractive as a tactic: The international community, the anti-Israel segment of the media and the so called "human rights" organizations could stop falling for this terrorist gambit and acknowledge that they are being used to promote the terrorist agenda.

Whenever a democracy is presented with the lose-lose option and chooses to defend its citizens by going after the terrorists who are hiding among civilians, this trio of predictable condemners can be counted on by the terrorists to accuse the democracy of "overreaction," "disproportionality" and "violations of human rights."

In doing so they play right into the hands of the terrorists, causing more terrorism and more civilian casualties on both sides.
If instead this trio could, for once, be counted on to blame the terrorists for the civilian deaths on both sides, this tactic would no longer be a win-win situation for the terrorists.

IT SHOULD BE obvious by now that Hizbullah and Hamas actually want the Israeli military to kill as many Lebanese and Palestinian civilians as possible. That is why they store their rockets underneath the beds of civilians; why they launch their missiles from crowded civilian neighborhoods and hide among civilians. They are seeking to induce Israel to defend its civilians by going after them among their civilian "shields." They know that every civilian they induce Israel to kill hurts Israel in the media and the international and human rights communities.

They regard these human shields as shahids - martyrs - even if they did not volunteer for this lethal job. Under the law, criminals who use human shields are responsible for the deaths of the shields, even if the bullet that kills them came from the gun of a policeman.

Israel has every self-interest in minimizing civilian casualties, whereas the terrorists have every self-interest in maximizing them - on both sides. Israel should not be condemned for doing what every democracy would and should do: taking every reasonable military step to stop the terrorists from killing their innocent civilians.

NOW THAT some of those who are launching rockets at Israeli cities have announced they have new surprises in store for Israel that may include chemical and biological weapons, the stakes have gotten even higher.

What would Israeli critics regard as "proportioned" to a chemical or biological attack? What would they say if Israel tried to preempt such an attack and, in the process, killed some civilians? Must a democracy absorb a first strike from a weapon of mass destruction before it fights back? Would any other democracy be expected to do that?

The world must come to recognize the cynical way in which terrorists exploit civilian casualties. They launch anti-personnel rockets designed to maximize enemy civilian casualties, then they cry "human rights" when their own civilians - behind whom they are deliberately hiding - are killed by the democracies in the process of trying to prevent further acts of terrorism.

The very idea that terrorists who use women and children as suicide bombers against other women and children shed crocodile tears over the deaths of civilians they deliberately put in harm's way gives new meaning to the word "hypocrisy." We all know that hypocrisy is a tactic of the terrorists, but it is shocking that others fall for it and become complicit with the terrorists.

Let the blame fall where it belongs: on the terrorists who deliberately seek to kill enemy civilians and give their democratic enemies little choice but to kill some civilians behind whom the terrorists are hiding.

Those who condemn Israel for killing civilians - who are used as human shields and swords for the terrorists - actually cause more civilian deaths and make it harder for Israel to withdraw from the West Bank.

HOW THE WORLD reacts to Israel's current military efforts to protect its citizens will have a considerable impact on future Israeli steps toward peace. Prior to the recent kidnappings and rocket attacks the Israeli government had announced its intention to engage in further withdrawals from large portions of the West Bank.

But how can Israel be expected to move forward with any plan for withdrawal if all it can expect in return is more terrorism - what the terrorists regard as "land for rocket launchings" - and more condemnation when it seeks to protect its civilians?

The writer is a Professor of Law at Harvard and the author of Preemption: A Knife that cuts both ways

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1153291973626&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
 
Apr 25, 2002
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click to read full articles

The Usual Apologists


Just the day before Dershowitz's opinon piece . . .



Tyre lays dozens to rest in mass grave, girds for coming attack

By Nicholas Blanford
Special to The Daily Star
Saturday, July 22, 2006

TYRE: Wrapped in blankets and plastic bags bound tightly with tape, the bodies were lowered from the truck into simple pine-board coffins doused with a chemical spray to mask - without much success - the cloying odor of death. With the numbers of dead steadily rising with each passing day, the initial victims of Israel's 10-day onslaught against South Lebanon were removed Friday from make-shift morgues and buried in a mass grave on the edge of Tyre.

The few remaining residents of Tyre were steeling themselves in expectation that the Israeli offensive is about to get much worse. The air strikes continued with a remorseless intensity. The massive explosions in the low hills east of Tyre were marked by pressure waves sweeping the town and rattling windows while thick columns of roiling gray smoke and dust hung in the air for minutes afterward.

A hollow thump and a puff of smoke in the sky above the Christian quarter on the tip of Tyre's promontory signaled another leaflet drop from the Israelis. A cloud of yellow paper rippled down like confetti blown by the sea breeze inland east of Tyre, the plastic barrel which had contained the warning slips crashing next to the Catholic bishop of Tyre's residence.



Lebanon Victims Buried in Mass Grave

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: July 21, 2006
Filed at 5:53 p.m. ET

TYRE, Lebanon (AP) -- Soldiers laid 72 coffins in two trenches, a mass grave for victims of the Israeli bombardment. Elsewhere, mounds of rubble sat undisturbed; rescue workers were too fearful of missiles to search for bodies.

Lebanese have streamed out of south Lebanon since fighting erupted between Israel and Hezbollah last week, leaving some villages almost deserted. But many people are believed trapped in their homes -- too poor to live anywhere else, too afraid to travel or unable to go because bridges and roads have been destroyed.

An estimated 400,000 Lebanese make their home south of the Litani River, 20 miles from the Israeli border, and it's not known how many remain -- but those that do risk being caught up in an Israeli ground offensive against Hezbollah.

''It is not looking good and it's going to last for some time,'' Ali Sayegh, a 39-year-old furniture salesman from Tyre, said of the Israeli offensive.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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but if you ask this guy they aren't civilians anyway. women and children should not be considered to be civilians. AND some civilian deaths are worse than others.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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No official census has been taken since 1932

but the CIA website says:

Muslim 59.7% (Shi'a, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri), Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
note: 17 religious sects recognized
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#8
ColdBlooded said:
No official census has been taken since 1932

but the CIA website says:

Muslim 59.7% (Shi'a, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri), Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
note: 17 religious sects recognized
Ok lets go on those numbers. How many civilians have been killed so far and how many citizens have displaced?
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#10
ColdBlooded said:
you'll have to provide those figures because i don't have em
All places I've come across within the last 20 minutes show 500,000. The death tolls seem to tell a different story. Some articles place the death tolls at 100-300 while others say 500-1000 and none state if they are civilian deaths or "terrorist" deaths. Whatever the case may be this nation is supporting the displacement of many christians...
 
Apr 25, 2002
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that's ok, now that syria is out the goal is to weaken/eliminate the Lebonese resistance(Hezbollah - because they are the only ones that can put up any serious fight) and install a christian dictator friendly to Israel (and of course the U.S.).
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#12
ColdBlooded said:
that's ok, now that syria is out the goal is to weaken/eliminate the Lebonese resistance(Hezbollah - because they are the only ones that can put up any serious fight) and install a christian dictator friendly to Israel (and of course the U.S.).
So in other words, the ends justify the means....

I've yet to hear Bush present any christian rhetoric/jargon in this case. Why isn't he saying anything like, "My Lebonese christian brothers are being displaced."
 
Apr 25, 2002
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for some people, yes

he's not saying it because people won't/can't/don't understand it. why did he never say that about Iraq's christian population?

they are brown, arab, muslims - we aren't supposed to know or care about anything else than that, true or not.
 
Apr 4, 2006
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""By hiding behind their own civilians the Islamic radicals issue a challenge to democracies: Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians. ""

Thats exactly how it is and I cant believe anyone could defend these savage fucks.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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HERESY said:
How many civilians have been killed so far and how many citizens have displaced?

I just read an AP report that said "391 have been killed and 1,596 wounded, according to Lebanese security officials."

Also have read various reports saying at least 500,000 displaced
 
Apr 25, 2002
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HERESY said:
How many civilians have been killed so far and how many citizens have displaced?
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - Up to 600 civilians are believed to have been killed in the Israeli offensive in Lebanon, including as many as 200 buried in the rubble of destroyed buildings, the health minister said Thursday.

The toll was a large jump over previous Health Ministry reports of around 400 killed, which is based on the number of bodies received at Lebanese hospitals.

Lebanon state radio quoted Health Minister Muhammed Jawad Khalifeh as saying up to 600 were killed, and that between 150 and 200 of them were believed to be buried in rubble and unreachable.

The Health Ministry count does not include 20 soldiers the Lebanese army has confirmed dead or 35 guerrillas whose deaths Hezbollah has acknowledged.