The Swift Boat Liars

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Apr 25, 2002
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#1
Please check out the "Among those criticizing Kerry" section towards the bottom

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-08-kerry-vets_x.htm

Anti-Kerry vets say 'lies' drove them to act
By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

They call themselves Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, but they are no "band of brothers" to John Kerry.
Last week, the group launched a scathing 60-second TV ad accusing the Democratic nominee of lying about his Vietnam War record. This week, the group releases Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry. On Sunday, the book was already No. 3 on Amazon.com's best-seller list.

The attack on one of Kerry's chief arguments for replacing President Bush as commander in chief — that he was tested under fire in Vietnam and served with distinction — has become harshly controversial. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a former prisoner of war in Vietnam who chairs Bush's campaign in Arizona, says the ad is dishonest and has called on the president's campaign to disavow it. Retired Army general Tommy Franks, who commanded U.S. forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, told ABC's This Week on Sunday that Kerry is "absolutely" qualified to be commander in chief.

Who are these men who say Kerry didn't deserve the medals he received as a swift boat commander, a view sharply at odds with that of men who served under him? And why are they telling their stories now, more than 35 years later?

On its Web site (www.swiftvets.com), the group calls itself "non-partisan." But public records show that two of its three main backers are longtime GOP contributors: Bob Perry, a Texas home builder who gave $100,000, and Harlan Crow, a Dallas real estate executive, who gave $25,000.

The third major backer is John O'Neill, who put up $25,000 and is co-author of the group's book. The Texas lawyer was closely tied to Bush when he was Texas governor. In 1971, O'Neill, a swift boat veteran who didn't serve with Kerry, was picked by the Nixon White House to counter Kerry's anti-war stand in TV debates.

The group's chairman and founder, retired rear admiral Roy Hoffmann, says the veterans were angered after reading historian Douglas Brinkley's book about Kerry's service, Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War. Hoffman says the biography is "replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact and outright lies."

As for waiting until a news conference this May to come forward, Hoffmann says, "When (Kerry) was in Massachusetts, that was Massachusetts' problem." Things changed, he says, "when he announced his candidacy to be the commander in chief."

Brinkley accuses the group of "a smear campaign." He interviewed at least seven of the men, some of whom he portrays harshly. Hoffmann, the Navy's top swift boat commander in Vietnam, is described in the book as "blood-thirsty" and "egomaniacal."

Like Hoffmann, none of the 13 men in the TV ad served on either of the two swift boats — small, lightly armed patrol craft — that Kerry commanded. Of the group's 254 members — out of 3,500 swift boat sailors who served in Vietnam — only one served under Kerry. The rest who did serve on Kerry's boats back his record.

Many of Kerry's critics commanded boats that went out on missions with Kerry. Others never met him. Most are still angry about Kerry's leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War after he returned home.

Among those criticizing Kerry:

• George Elliott, who came to Kerry's defense during his 1996 Senate campaign when questions were raised about his Silver Star. Kerry received the award after beaching his boat to chase a Viet Cong guerrilla who was firing from shore. Kerry jumped ashore and killed the guerrilla. As Kerry's commander, Elliott approved the award and gave him glowing marks in fitness reports. But in an affidavit last month, Elliott said he "was never informed that (Kerry) had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back." Last week, Elliott recanted that affidavit in a statement to The Boston Globe, saying he had made "a terrible mistake." But the Swift Boat Veterans group has since issued a statement reaffirming Elliott's affidavit.

Elliott was not available for comment Sunday, but in an interview with USA TODAY earlier this year, he said that while he strongly disagreed with Kerry's anti-war activities, "I don't know how anyone would have taken the risks he took in combat just for the glory of running for office."

• Adrian Lonsdale, who in 1996 called Kerry "among the finest of those swift boat drivers." He says he changed his mind after reading Brinkley's book. Lonsdale, who outranked Kerry, recalls meeting him only once at an officers club. "The only thing I remember is he whined a lot about the lack of air support," he said.

• Charles Plumly, a retired Navy captain who was Hoffmann's chief of staff. He says Kerry "required a lot of supervision" and "did things without permission." Asked in an interview for examples, he said, "I can't give you exact specifics."

• Van O'Dell and Jack Chenoweth, who are among those who say Kerry lied about an incident on March 13, 1969, for which he received a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart. Kerry was cited for pulling Army Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann from a river during a firefight, despite an arm injury. O'Dell says there was no enemy fire and Kerry "fled the scene." Chenoweth says that Kerry's arm was not bleeding and that the official reports were "completely different than" what he saw.

Rassmann has dismissed such accounts as "pure fabrication." Del Sandusky, Kerry's boat driver, says, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water," adding that the contrary accounts are "part of the Republican slime machine."

• Louis Letson, a doctor who says he treated Kerry. He says Kerry didn't deserve his first Purple Heart because he "inadvertently wounded himself" and "there was no hostile fire." Medical records, however, note that Kerry was treated for shrapnel by J.C. Carreon, not Letson. Bill Zaladonis, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, says the men believed they were shooting at Viet Cong.

FactCheck.org, a non-partisan group that monitors political ads, says Letson's story is "based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that." It concludes, "There is reason to doubt" the Swift Boat Veterans' ad because of its funding and because of the discrepancies in memory between Kerry's defenders and attackers.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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www.Tadou.com
#3
How nice of you to post up this nice little frame job.

What about the whole Cambodia/Cambodia border question that Kerry is on the record as having lied/contradicted himself about? They got that one right, but this Op-Ed reporter skipped right over it.
 
Sep 9, 2003
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#4
tadou said:
How nice of you to post up this nice little frame job.

What about the whole Cambodia/Cambodia border question that Kerry is on the record as having lied/contradicted himself about? They got that one right, but this Op-Ed reporter skipped right over it.

every thing in this artical appered on dateline a few weeks ago. this ad came from the same women that did the McCain ad during the 2000 primary back then she was paid for by bush. the money is linked 3 ways to the bush campain for this ad. 1 of the fuckers is on video standing next to kerry during the 96 campaine with nothing but kind words. and every award that kerry has won and the sistuation around it is backed up with documents that back kerrys side of it.

this is just fuckin sad in my opion.

i think these people aint pissed about what kerry did during the war. i think their still pissed at what he did after the war. he took a tough ass stand and made a ton of enemys after he came back from nam.

they can say what they wanna say but the bottom line is kerry went and fuckin fought. he got shot and shot at almost daily. he had one of the most dangerous jobs their was in nam.

and bush was in fuckin texas while all this shit was goin on.

that makes him look weak. so this is the consertives attempt to level the playin feild a lil.

see now insteed of kerry talking about health care, ecnomics, or any other issue he has to play defence. thats what they did to Mccain thats what they did to gore and thats what their doin to kerry.


so they have the trash in someone elses name this time, who fuckin cares. do you really think a ad this exsplosive goes on air without so much as a thumbs up from a ranking member of the bush camp?????????? FUCK NO

they was consluted about this ad.... shit they might have even ordered it up themselfs...

its all just to place doubt in the voters minds about kerry.
a attempt to take the focus off the issues and on to trash.

i think this ad is gonna hurt bush way more than it does kerry.
every person ive talked to about it is sick and fuckin tired of these smear tactics.

except for on hear ive havent heard ANYONE say "man fuck kerry he lied about all that war shit."

this may be the worst attack ad ive ever seen or heard about in the history of politics.

its gonna back fire.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#7
Official US account - we never went into Laos, Cambodia.
John Kerry account - I, and other armed forces members, went into Laos and Cambodia.

My brother-in-law's uncle is a Vietnam vet. I just asked him by phone if we, or our allies, ever ventured into Cambodia.

"Fuck yea we did. They did too. We went in, and they went in after us, and vice versa." He added that "if this has anything to do with Kerry, he's a fuckin queer."

lmao
 
Jun 24, 2004
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#8
WHITE DEVIL said:
Official US account - we never went into Laos, Cambodia.
John Kerry account - I, and other armed forces members, went into Laos and Cambodia.

My brother-in-law's uncle is a Vietnam vet. I just asked him by phone if we, or our allies, ever ventured into Cambodia.

"Fuck yea we did. They did too. We went in, and they went in after us, and vice versa." He added that "if this has anything to do with Kerry, he's a fuckin queer."

lmao


Oh shit man, i should believe every word your uncle says, lol i dont know about him or if he even exists man, get a new form of propaganda u putz
 
Sep 13, 2002
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#15
didnt read it didnt care fuck kerry fuck a democrate fuck those that want everybody equal. work hard make money live a good life or dont do shit and pray kerry gets elected.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#16
proppa said:
didnt read it didnt care fuck kerry fuck a democrate fuck those that want everybody equal. work hard make money live a good life or dont do shit and pray kerry gets elected.

What in the fuck are you talking about? What the fuck is a democrate? Fuck those that want everyone equal? LMAO That's right up there with the biggest bunch of mindless babble I've ever seen. Why reply if you have no fuckin idea what you are talking about? At least Tadou knows his side of the story when he argues. Are you Rush Limbaugh's son or somethin?

PS Go to fuckin school. Your grammar is grade schoolish.