The Reagan Phenomena by Noam Chomsky

nefar559 · Jun 16, 2004

FYI...

Posted by Noam Chomsky at June 10, 2004 11:25 AM

The Reagan Phenomena
Posted by Noam Chomsky at June 10, 2004 11:25 AM
I believe this is the first such extravaganza in the US. ...

There was something similar after the JFK assassination, but of course the assassination of a living president is quite different. I don't recall anything else remotely similar, perhaps since FDR, in the midst of a war, and of course he really was a significant figure, whatever one's judgment of him. Reagan is another story: mostly a PR creation in the first place, and massively so in recent years.

During his years in office, Reagan was not particularly popular. Gallup just published poll figures comparing him during office with other presidents. His average ratings during his years in office were below Kennedy, Johnson, Bush I, and Clinton; above Nixon, Ford, Carter. This is averages during their terms in office. By 1992 he was ranked just next to Nixon as the most unpopular living ex-president. Since then there has been an immense PR campaign to convert him into a revered and historic figure, if not semi-divine, and it's doubtless had an effect,

Posted by Noam Chomsky at June

Hatch · Jun 17, 2004

nefar559 said:

ya, he was so unpopular that 44 out of 50 states voted him in the first time.
http://www.kennesaw.edu/pols/3380/pres/1980.html
When the votes were tallied, Carter was out of office. Reagan won 489 electoral votes to Carter's 49

and he was even more unpop0ular that he was voted back in AGAIN but the second time it was a mere blowout of 49 out of 50 states that he won.
http://www.kennesaw.edu/pols/3380/pres/1984.html
November's election brought another landslide victory for Reagan. He won in every state except Mondale's home of Minnesota

if that is what chomsky calls unpopular he must be smoking crack!!!!!!!

http://www.kennesaw.edu/pols/3380/pres/rea.html
In 1980, former actor, Ronald Reagan, auditioned for the role of a lifetime. Many voter's had doubts about the aspiring presidential candidate, but Reagan won over the hearts and minds of a nation with his performance. Nine years later, he left the Oval Office with the highest approval ratings of any modern President.

http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887

How do you think each of the following presidents will go down in history -- as an outstanding president, above average, average, below average, or poor?

The only president to score better on this measure than Reagan in eight measures taken between 1985 and 1999 was Franklin D. Roosevelt (though Kennedy was not included in these polls). In April 1997, Roosevelt was viewed as outstanding by 31% of the public, and as above average by an additional 36%. (Coincidentally, Gallup was updating this measure in a poll being conducted this past weekend, when news of Reagan's death became public on Saturday. The preliminary data -- collected before Reagan's death -- showed Reagan ranking third behind Roosevelt and Kennedy.)

Last November, Gallup asked the public -- in an open-ended format -- whom they regarded as the greatest U.S. president. Reagan placed third on the list, behind only Kennedy and Abraham Lincoln. Reagan has consistently placed in the top five since the question was first asked in 1999, and actually topped the list in a 2001 poll conducted around the celebration of his 90th birthday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/07/opinion/polls/main621632.shtml
(CBS) This poll was originally written in 1989 by Martin Plissner, Executive Political Director, CBS News. It was updated by CBS News in June, 2004

GOING OUT POPULAR
Ronald Reagan’s presidency ended at a high level of public approval, matched only by that of Bill Clinton and Franklin Roosevelt among modern presidents, and at about the highest level during his own unusually popular terms of office. Asked if they approved or disapproved of the way Ronald Reagan handled his job as President since 1981, a CBS News/New York Times Poll conducted in January 1989 showed 68 percent of Americans approved. Just 26 percent disapproved.

HOW REAGAN HANDLED PRESIDENCY (1/1989)
Approve 68%
Disapprove 26%

REAGAN AND OTHER PRESIDENTS: FINAL APPROVAL RATINGS FOR U.S. PRESIDENTS. 1943-2001

REAGAN 1/89
Approve 68%
Disapprove 26%
Don't Know/NA 6%

G.H.W. BUSH 1/93
Approve 54%
Disapprove 40%
Don't Know/NA 6%

CLINTON 2/01
Approve 68%
Disapprove 30%
Don't Know/NA 2%

GALLUP POLLS:

ROOSEVELT 12/43
Approve 66%
Disapprove 24%
Don't Know/NA 10%

TRUMAN 12/52
Approve 31%
Disapprove 56%
Don't Know/NA 13%

EISENHOWER 12/60
Approve 59%
Disapprove 27%
Don't Know/NA 14%

KENNEDY 11/63
Approve 58%
Disapprove 30%
Don't Know/NA 12%

JOHNSON 1/69
Approve 49%
Disapprove 37%
Don't Know/NA 14%

NIXON 8/74
Approve 24%
Disapprove 66
Don't Know/NA 10%

FORD 12/76
Approve 53%
Disapprove 32%
Don't Know/NA 15%

CARTER 12/80
Approve 34%
Disapprove 55%
Don't Know/NA 11%

is chomsky lying?????

nefar559 · Jun 17, 2004

@hatch

i dont think you understood what Chomsky was saying

let me make it clear to you:

first "During his years in office, Reagan was not particularly popular ... with other presidents"

second, all that shit that happen later about Reagon ranking the highest amoung popular presidents, was becuase of "PR creation" specialy so in what you provided.

Hatch · Jun 17, 2004

nefar559 said:

i understand exactly what Chomsky was DOING he was playing with numbers to try and make a point with brainwashed people like you who believe everything that commies on the left spew out. common sense and a first grade level of education is all a person needs to see how Reagan was thought of by the common people.

if he wasnt popular DURING his 2 TERMS as president why did he win in landslides??

first time over 90% of the electoral college and the 2nd time 98% of the states voted for him????

nefar559 · Jun 18, 2004

Hatch said:

landslides? can you really call less than 1/2 of the american people who can vote a landslide? He did nothing, he was may by PR, he knew nothing, but read what was on the screen in front of him

Hatch · Jun 18, 2004

nefar559 said:

WOW!!!!! that one takes the cake.

the fact of the matter is that he won over 90% of the electoral college the 1st time and the 2nd time he won 49 out of 50 states and all you can come up with is

nefar559 said:

attay · Jun 18, 2004

For anyone interested http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887 is the article Chomsky is referring to.

Hatch said:

Actually, no, but instead strong evidence indicating your illiteracy and selective use of statistics has accumulated.

Here is what Chomsky wrote

Yes, that's right. DURING HIS YEARS IN OFFICE. Here are the gallup figures.

Presidential Job Approval:
Averages for Presidents

It's funny that you should use a statistic taken from http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887 to illustrate your point, when it was totally out of context and you didn't even read the fucking thing. Had you read it, you probably would have grasped Chomsky's point. Though I have my doubts.

Hatch said:

This figure is titled

Presidential Job Approval:
Retrospective Approval Ratings for Presidents
percentage who approved of each president

and is from MARCH 2002.

Then, Chomsky said

Even that CBS article you chose to post (partially, though) to support your argument would have shown that Reagan was unpopular in 1992 polls

Let's cite the article:

CHOMSKY:

Doesn't this validify Chomsky's point?

In light of my reply, how was he playing with numbers? Basic reading comprehension is a skill you seem to lack.

edit. images

A1Yola415 · Jun 18, 2004

hatch were u one of the morons who stood in line for hours to see reagans coffin?

Hatch · Jun 20, 2004

attay said:

chomsky is purposefully confusing Reagans "Popularity Ratings" with his job approval ratings. note he is talking about reagans POPULARITY but then citing his job approval ratings.

attay said:

Hatch · Jun 20, 2004

no they are not the same.
http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887

attay said:

http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887
Favorable Ratings of Reagan

Both in and out of office, Reagan was always well-liked by the American public -- based on ratings measuring the public's personal opinion rather than its assessment of his job performance. Between 1984 and 1988, Gallup consistently found more than 6 in 10 Americans holding a favorable view of Reagan, including a substantial 81% in October 1986. [/COLOR] Even during the 1982 recession, when only about 4 in 10 Americans approved of the job Reagan was doing as president, 6 in 10 Americans rated him on the positive end of a 10-point rating scale.[/B] [/U] [/SIZE]

this is where chomsky tries to decieve you lefties and always succeeds. he tries to pass off reagans "job approval rating" as a personal approval rating

http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=11887
"when only about 4 in 10 Americans approved of the job Reagan was doing as president, 6 in 10 Americans rated him on the positive end of a 10-point rating scale."

Here is what Chomsky wrote
Quote:
During his years in office, Reagan was not particularly popular. Gallup just published poll figures comparing him during office with other presidents. His average ratings during his years in office were below Kennedy, Johnson, Bush I, and Clinton; above Nixon, Ford, Carter

attay · Jun 20, 2004

Hatch said:

...

Presidential job approval ratings are a measure of POPULARITY. Thus, to determine whether or not a president was popular, job approval ratings are used. Are you so obsessed with exposing Chomsky for the commie and fraud he must be that you refuse to acknowledge that the facts are on his side?

Notice how the statistics you used (to defend Reagan's popularity) were, YES, surprise surprise, JOB APPROVAL RATINGS.

attay · Jun 20, 2004

Ok, I didn't notice your post above my last until now. Sorry.

Hatch said:

Yes, all in all well-liked, but was he particularly or especially popular, as he is usually depicted in media nowadays? Or has his popularity been been exaggerated?

Hatch said:

Approval ratings ARE a measure of popularity. "Personal approval ratings" or "favorability/likeability" are, according the impression I've gotten, not stressed as much. Don't shoot me if I wrong, though. But, nevertheless, even in the field of "favorability", during his years in office, Reagan was not _particularly_ triumphant.

edit. I don't have particularly high expectations for all this to convince you. After all, you've got a big-ass picture of Reagan's ugly mug with a grin as your signature

nefar559 · Jun 21, 2004

hatch always had a hard time understanding ...

The Reagan Phenomena by Noam Chomsky

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