Spacial/Stereo Separation of Sounds

[BOOBOO619]

How do you guys approach this? I know this is crucial in the mixing process so your sounds don't crash together, you don't want everything in the center of the stereo field. So what do you guys do interms of panning sounds and such? Is there certain rules to go by so you don't over do it or under do it or do you just go by what sounds good? That's one of the things I always wondered. For example, should a percussion sound like the Snare/Clap be panned left or right, or should it be left in the middle or should you use a stereo widening effect so it spreads out evenly in all directions? How about the angles you take, should certain sounds be panned all the way in the direction of 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock or is that too dramatic of a shift, etc...? Is there a chart or anthing out there that can help in this? I try to do the best I can with the minimal knowledge I have and it seems to sound good enough, but I know I can probably get a lot more help.


What I been doing is leaving the bass kick in the middle, basslines slightly left or right, hi-hats/shakers more left or right, same with open-hats. Snares/claps slightly left or right. I usually pan a sound like a open-hat or vibraslap a bit more than the rest of the percussion so it stands out a bit more. But I usually do the opposite of a similiar sound, for example if I have the hi-hats left, I will usually put a open-hat in the right direction. I do similiar with other sounds, like a piano more left towards 9o'clock and in the opposite direction lets say a guitar or lead sound. Etc.... Is this an OK way to approach this? I'm not too sure how to approach sounds like pads, strings, leads or any type of sound that floats softly in the background, I usually pan those closer to 9/3O'clock, though something tells me they should be closer to the center.

 

[GHP]

alot has to do with your panning yes. You don't too many simular frequencies all resting around eachother in that same part of the strereo plane. I usually take things that are simular and pan them on the oppicite sides of the spectrum and i might also EQ one above the other to make it more prominant in the mix. I just like to experiment with it. Like I visualize all the tracks as their own instruments in a band and place them in the mix the same way they would sound if they were playing in front of me at the audiences perspective. i just like to have fun with it and experiment, there is no real wrong way

 

[BOOBOO619]

alot has to do with your panning yes. You don't too many simular frequencies all resting around eachother in that same part of the strereo plane. I usually take things that are simular and pan them on the oppicite sides of the spectrum and i might also EQ one above the other to make it more prominant in the mix. I just like to experiment with it. Like I visualize all the tracks as their own instruments in a band and place them in the mix the same way they would sound if they were playing in front of me at the audiences perspective. i just like to have fun with it and experiment, there is no real wrong way

Cool, thanks, I guess I been doing it OK then. Yeah I take that similiar approach by visualizing a live band playing from the audience's perspective and panning sounds with simliar frequencies in opposite directions. Guess I'm alright then. Still now completely sure about certain sounds though, because if you pan a snare too hard left or right, it seems to stand out too much or if you leave it more towards the middle it might clash a bit with the kick and bassline or be drowned out by it. I usually EQ boost the mid-range frequencies though of the snare/clap so it pops out a bit more. I dunno, I'm probably over analyzing this whole concept.

Maybe someone here can provide a bit more technical information or chart.

 

[GHP]

well its pretty customary in a mix to have the vocals most prevelant and the snare pretty prevelant as well. then again it depends on ho you want the overall feel of the mix to turn out.

 

[HERESY]

Is there certain rules to go by so you don't over do it or under do it or do you just go by what sounds good?

Yes, there are certain rules to go by. Some of the rules to go by prevent phase issues and other rules are because of the instrument.

For example, should a percussion sound like the Snare/Clap be panned left or right, or should it be left in the middle or should you use a stereo widening effect so it spreads out evenly in all directions?

In the middle always, but maybe some effect during a special portion of the song to make it stick out a bit.

How about the angles you take, should certain sounds be panned all the way in the direction of 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock or is that too dramatic of a shift, etc...?

Depends on the instrument. If the sound is panned hard but it drops out when being played in mono its too far out.

Is there a chart or anthing out there that can help in this? I try to do the best I can with the minimal knowledge I have and it seems to sound good enough, but I know I can probably get a lot more help.

No chart use your ears. Rely on your ears for everything in the lab.

What I been doing is leaving the bass kick in the middle, basslines slightly left or right

I don't pan the kick, and the only way I'd pan a bassline is if the song is a BAND and I'm trying to emulate the sound of a live band (bass players are NOT in the middle of the stage.)

hi-hats/shakers more left or right, same with open-hats

depends on teh kit and if I'm going for something realistic (like how real drum sets are positioned.)

I do similiar with other sounds, like a piano more left towards 9o'clock and in the opposite direction lets say a guitar or lead sound.

Pianos need to be panned according to the cleff. High end gets panned to the right and low end gets panned to the left. If the piano is mono or the stereo image is limited I leave it in the middle or I add a delay and pan the delay to teh opposite side. If you have a guitar played in the high end and a paino played in the low and they play at the same time pan the paino to the left and the guitar to the right.

I'm not too sure how to approach sounds like pads, strings, leads or any type of sound that floats softly in the background, I usually pan those closer to 9/3O'clock, though something tells me they should be closer to the center.

pan to taste.

 

[BOOBOO619]

wow, thanks a lot heresy. good stuff.

 

[EAT]

I pan my snares center or one channel very slightly left and one right for a stereo effect; any more than that and they sound weak. kicks mostly center, bass sometimes I'll pan slightly left and slightly right with 2 of the same wave file, one of them shifted forward slightly for a fuller effect. leads and hats/open hats I'll pan as far out as 3 oclock, sound effects further out and quieter. for the most part I've found that keeping the bass, kick, snare in or near the center works best. everything else just play it by ear, but spread out and BALANCE the piece.

I don't understand why lower frequencies should be panned left and higher frequencies panned right tho...

 

[EAT]

never mind I realized heresy was trying to recreate the sound of an actual piano hence the high keys on the right and the low keys on the left.

 

[BOOBOO619]

never mind I realized heresy was trying to recreate the sound of an actual piano hence the high keys on the right and the low keys on the left.

Yeah that's good info, I never really thought about that. Makes sense tho.

 

[MOREBASS]

Good info.


So from my understanding, you should be placing instruments according to where they would actually sit if there were a live band playing it on stage...?

For example, the drummer is usually in the middle of the stage, in the very back...so would that translate to having the drums relatively lower in the mix, and centered...?

 

[HERESY]

So from my understanding, you should be placing instruments according to where they would actually sit if there were a live band playing it on stage...?

IF you want to simulate a realistic feel you should.

For example, the drummer is usually in the middle of the stage, in the very back...so would that translate to having the drums relatively lower in the mix, and centered...?

You can create depth to the drum kit by adding some type of verb on the entire kit or on a couple of parts (like the snare), but volume placement should be determined by the importance of the instrument being played, and in some (probably most) rap songs the snare and kick are usually up front because they keep the timing going.

You can keep the drums centered, but if you're simulating a whole drum kit you need to pan some of the parts to give it some space. I wouldn't pan everything hard, but I would spread it out a bit.

 

[MOREBASS]

Thanks folks ! Makes a lot of sense actually..

 

[EAT]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/pan_control.htm

Peep this.

 

[GasChamber707]

All this is good stuff...

I say stick to a simple set of general rules as much as possible. Here are some things I do in my lab...


Think Organic... Use an instrument or sound as authentically as possible. Example... Say that you want an orchestra section on your composition. Rather than playing 3 notes simultaneously on a single violin track. Create 3 violin tracks and divide the notes between them. This allows you to pan, EQ, whatever... each track independently.

Frequency vs. Pan Range..... Personally, I tend to push high frequency sounds more towards center, and push lower frequencies out. It has something to do with the way the human body responds to different frequency ranges.
Low sub you may feel more in your shins and thighs. Low mids will usually resonate in your abdomanal area and chest. Highs can make your brain itch!!!!
It may sound rediculous, but... body/frequency awareness in your mix is key.
Stack it like a pyramid, lowest to highest (freq). Lowest left and right. Highest center. There are many acceptions to this "rule".

Mix Flat... The first thing I do after hoping in the rental and throwing in a CD is turn the bass all the way up. Fa real.... I can do that with my mixes and not have horrible distortion because I mixed it to measure, not to taste. This is where you must moderate yourself and don't over due it because it sounds good on your system. Trial and error will help you find the optimal setting stardards you should use consistantly for the perfect sound outside your lab.

Leave Overhead in Your Mix.... That means don't mix it down peaked. Leave yourself some room for mastering.
Many times an artist has shown up with a beat that was mixed way too hot and was an embarrassment to use. When engineering vocals onto a beat, I like to have the beat level at most... 80%.
I use several editing apps for various stages of a tracks development. If I start with something already peaked, it's difficult to further brighten the mix...


I'll stop there. The right mix takes time to develope. The hardest part sometimes is to know when to stop fucking with it.


Heresy!!!! What it do ! Gotta give a quick shout out to my big cousin Heresy. He helped me step my game up. fa real...

 

[HERESY]

^^^ Is that who I think it is? LMAO! Whats up man? I need to connect with you on some shit soon. My last day of class is weds and next week I'll be flying out of state. Are the #s still the same?

 

[GasChamber707]

^^^ Is that who I think it is? LMAO! Whats up man? I need to connect with you on some shit soon. My last day of class is weds and next week I'll be flying out of state. Are the #s still the same?

Cell # is the same and I even paid it up through January... lol

All I got is a couple hours a day between 10am and 1pm. Had to get a real job... But ya man, hit me up. I got time for you.