SEVERAL QUESTIONS TO ATHEISTS

[HERESY]

I have two questions that I need help with and was wondering if you guys (2-0-6, shep,sixxness etc etc etc) could help me.

When it comes to "GOD" or the concept of a "higher power" where does this come from? I ask this because people of different races, cultures, religions etc etc etc have a belief in god(s) or some higher power yet they have never met. Do you believe man has a gene/trait that is the cause of this belief? if so has it been mapped out/discussed in the "scientific" fields?


Who do you believe invented god or the concept of god? As I said before different people, different areas, different cultures, yet they all have "god". Is it possible for you to give a specific person and not the general answer of "man invented god"?


This is NOT a debate OR religion thread. This is simply something I would like to know from an atheist standpoint. I will limit the majority of my responses to questions.


Thanks for your replies.

 

[hella_numb]

respond

i guess you can call me a athesist.

1) GOD or a higher power comes from something you need in your life to comfort yourself. LIke in the old days they didnt know what lighting was so they made something up so it wasnt as scary, and death is scary so they made up the heaven and hell thing and god who controls that. Many scientists do not believe in god, i wonder why? because he does not exist. GOD gives people comfort and if it wasnt for believing in a after life the world would be chaos. God makes people sane becuase it gives them the answer to the most mysterious question of all what happens when you die. Its not anything someone is born thinking, but it is imposed on you by another person who believes in god.

2)Someone smart invented GOD, same with the person who invented currency. The catholic religion or something like that is a 3 billion dollar industry a year (i thought it was more like 30 billion but i'll say 3 to be safe) and every culture does have a god but if there are over 30 gods which one is the real one, what if your believing in the fake one? An i believe man made GOD just for the sake of feeling secure.

I dont know if that helps

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Well, there is a lyric from Dead Prez, “I believe man made god, out of ignorance and fear.”

All cultures, civilizations etc. know the concept of god because as humans, we have evolved to that point. When mankind began thinking and asking questions, eventually they asked where everything comes from. A simple solution for life’s answers was the creation of god. All of life’s mysteries; fire, earthquakes, rain, the sun, animals, snow, aquiculture, disease etc. are no longer mysteries with the concept of god. God was the creator, the magnificent, the judge, the jury, bringer of life and death etc. When it didn’t rain for months, it was god. When a woman died from a scratch on her leg…god punished her. And so on.

If we look back at primitive man, we can clearly observe early concepts of god which some even call barbaric. If you look at the Aztec civilization and the human sacrifices they made and other earlier belief systems, we can see that it’s not that different from any modern religion. The ideas and traditions may differ, but the basic concepts remain.

Also, throughout history religion has always been a tool for control of the people. This is true for every civilization I can think of. If anyone thinks different, please give examples. I highly doubt the three major religions in America would even exist if it weren’t for corrupt leaders.

Religion as we know it was created by the states, the leaders, the oppressors etc. Karl Marx once wrote, “"The religious world is but the reflex of the real world." “[Religion] is an illusion whose chief purpose is to provide reasons and excuses to keep society functioning just as it is. Just as capitalism takes our productive labor and alienates us from its value, religion also takes our qualities - our highest ideals and aspirations - and alienates us from them, projecting them onto an alien and unknowable being called a god.” This is how I feel. It gives people false hope, false happiness etc. It gives us understanding in an uncertain world. This is where the famous “religion is the opium of the people” quote comes from.

 

[HERESY]

I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I WAS EXPECTING MORE THAN "SOMEONE SMART INVENTED GOD". I ASKED IF IT WERE POSSIBLE TO GIVE A SPECIFIC PERSON AND NOT THE GENERAL "MAN INVENTED GOD" ANSWER WHICH YOU GAVE ME.


IN YOUR FIRST ANSWER YOU MENTIONED MAN INVENTED GOD TO EXPLAIN NATURAL ACTS OF NATURE (LIKE LIGHTING). HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW EACH OTHER WERE ABLE TO CREATE THIS CONCEPT OF GOD? LOOK AT THIS EXAMPLE. IN THE PAST NATIVE AMERICANS NEVER MET AFRIKANS YET BOTH HAVE TRIBES THAT HAVE A SUN OR RAIN GOD. HOW/WHY IS IT THAT BOTH GROUPS USE "GOD"? THEY BOTH HAVE THIS CONCEPT OR IDEA ABOUT "GOD" YET THEY NEVER MET. HOW/WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS, ORIGINS AND DIALECTS CAN COME UP WITH THE *SAME* CONCEPT TO MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL SECURE?


WE HAVE DOCUMENTED PROOF OF THE ORIGINS OF CURRENCY AND WHO WERE THE FIRST TO IMPLEMENT IT. WHO WERE THE FIRST TO IMPLEMENT "GOD" AND HOW DID THIS CONCEPT SPREAD WHEN TRAVEL WAS LIMITED?



THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.




:HGK:

 

[HERESY]

@ 2-0-6 YOU WERE ABLE TO MAKE A POST BEFORE MY PREVIOUS POST. THE CONTENT CONTAINED IN THAT POST WAS DIRECTED AT HELLA NUMB BUT THIS ONE IS DIRECTED AT YOU.


YOU SAY MAN HAS EVOLVED TO THAT POINT. WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW MEN WHO WERE THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY AND DIDN'T KNOW EACH OTHER EXISTED COULD STILL FORMULATE AND IMPLEMENT "GOD"? HOW/WHY WOULD ALL THESE PEOPLE COME WITH THE *SAME* CONCEPT?


:HGK:

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Well, for one HERESY, if you're looking for a specific name of one particular man, than you'll never get it. Were talking about the origins of religions here...thousands and thousands of years ago. I’m sure it could be done with modern religions, such as Mormons or some shit.

2nd, the concept of fire or sun gods in two different parts of the world is not extraordinary at all. This just shows that mankind is advancing and learning. Lets take the sun for example. If man studies and observes nature they will eventually learn that the sun is responsible for light and heat which directly affects other things, such as vegetation, hunting, wars etc. Knowing this often led to the worship of the sun, which is in reality, is the bringer of life.

There are thousands of similarities between different religions and civilizations throughout history. The concept of pi is another good one. With basic understandings of mathematics, civilizations can create things, build, invent etc. Is it some wild coincidence that numerous civilizations stumbled across pi or does it show us that mathematics, like life, has strict laws that cannot be broken? Advancement in mathematics will eventually lead you to pi, right angles, and countless other formulas.

Good topic btw.

 

[HERESY]

WITH RELIGIONS THAT ARE OLD YOU CAN STILL FIND AN ORIGIN OR CREATOR OF THAT RELIGION. I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF A CERTAIN RELIGION, I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF THE "GOD" CONCEPT. BOTH OF THESE ARE DIFFERENT TO ME.


THE CONCEPT OF SUN GODS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IS EXRTAORIDNARY TO ME. HERE IT IS YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER MET (AND I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH) YET THEY CHOOSE TO LOOK AT THE SUN AND CALL IT "GOD". KNOWING CERTAIN THINGS LED TO THE WORSHIP OF THE SUN, BY GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET EACH OTHER. THE EXACT SAME CONCEPT WAS ACCEPTED BY PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET....COULD IT BE THAT MAN HAS A GOD GENE? SOMETHING THAT CLICKS INSIDE AND SAYS "GOD"?


:HGK:


I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ALL LATER ON TONIGHT.


:HGK:

 

[Fridge]

Umm, I dunno if this is where I chime in, but god is real... watch the passion of the christ. You will learn, that's based on a true story and we believe in jesus. You can't believe in jesus if god doesn't exist and people believe.

You dumb atheists are just non-commital. Shit or get off the pot you half way closet cases. God makes the best of our situations and you take for granted all the freedom you get. God bless Amercia and no place else.

 

[A1Yola415]

Umm, I dunno if this is where I chime in, but god is real... watch the passion of the christ. You will learn, that's based on a true story and we believe in jesus. You can't believe in jesus if god doesn't exist and people believe.

You dumb atheists are just non-commital. Shit or get off the pot you half way closet cases. God makes the best of our situations and you take for granted all the freedom you get. God bless Amercia and no place else.

hahahha that was the funniest shit ive ever read, typical bible boy

i bet u wont be saying the same thing after ur priest sticks his hands down ur pants

 

[Humboldt High]

^this is not where u chime in dumbass.

another way to define the "god gene" would be a "faith gene." the yerning to believe that there is something more to our worldly existance. people dont have to be conscious of one another to have the need to justify their life on this planet. The scientific analysis of life: the chance formation of molecules coming together in a primordial pool to create life doesnt give people hope for thir future past the physical. There is no clear purpose in that story, there is no life after death, and there is certainly no room to value your religious laws above anothers.
poeple are dying for a purpose to life. to be able to say i am here for a reason. my life has value beyond a chance evolutionary mishap or the timing of a comet slamming into earth.
It is the egocentric persuit of the greater purpose of life that has birthed all religions. whether it was the spiteful greek gods to allah. Perhaps it is an "ego gene."
Perhaps religious ideas spurred at the same time that primitive man developed the ego and id. And the poorly evolved man above my post does well to highlight my points.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

WITH RELIGIONS THAT ARE OLD YOU CAN STILL FIND AN ORIGIN OR CREATOR OF THAT RELIGION. I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF A CERTAIN RELIGION, I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF THE "GOD" CONCEPT. BOTH OF THESE ARE DIFFERENT TO ME.

Well, let’s rephrase that a bit. WITH *SOME* RELIGIONS THAT ARE OLD YOU CAN STILL FIND AN ORIGIN OR CREATOR OF THAT RELIGION. It's impossible to find the origin of many, "dead" religions that existed thousands of years ago.

If you're looking for the origins of "god", you're not going to find one particular person and time. It's too ancient. What I can offer is my views on how the belief in god came about.

THE CONCEPT OF SUN GODS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IS EXRTAORIDNARY TO ME. HERE IT IS YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER MET (AND I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH) YET THEY CHOOSE TO LOOK AT THE SUN AND CALL IT "GOD". KNOWING CERTAIN THINGS LED TO THE WORSHIP OF THE SUN, BY GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET EACH OTHER. THE EXACT SAME CONCEPT WAS ACCEPTED BY PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET....

As I stated before, I don't see how it is extraordinary at all. There have been numerous civilizations that worshipped the sun simply because they were aware of the sun and its importance. There are also numerous civilizations that observed planets and stars thus creating their own calendars, and yet they never met. Each had their own languages, clothing, shelter etc. completely different from civilizations on the opposite side of the planet, and yet they still all had these things. What's so extraordinary here?

There is a group of chimpanzees in Africa that uses rocks to open up certain kinds of nuts. What’s interesting is that a different family or tribe that is the exact same kind of chimpanzee only miles away, uses wood to open nuts. These chimps never interacted with each other and have never met, and yet, both tribes use tools to open nuts. How can this be?

If we go way back HERESY, to primitive man, we know that somewhere along the lines between our ancestors and humans we began to think…we developed self-consciousness. That means we also gained a sense of morality, we learned to communicate, we learned the nature of life- meaning we learned about death of others, and are own. Evidence shows our brains enlarged which means we were thinking more than ever. Abstract and conceptual thinking occurred and so on.

According to scientists these humans with these abilities lived somewhere around 70 to 100 thousand years ago. You can place the origin of the concept of god somewhere in here if you’d like.

Some of the earliest known religions viewed everything on the planet as one, similar in a way to some Native American tribes. They believed a spirit or the spirit was inside everything; humans, rocks, fire, rain, water, trees, etc. The term for this is “Animists”. This is the most primitive form of religion and was mainly maintained by small tribes of hunters and gatherers etc. These forms of “god” and worship are probably the origins of the concept.

I have a book that touches on Animism if you’re interested at all.

COULD IT BE THAT MAN HAS A GOD GENE? SOMETHING THAT CLICKS INSIDE AND SAYS "GOD"?

Well, if that were the case, how do you explain 2-0-Sixx and the other hundreds of million of atheists living on this planet? I can't remember if it was you or somebody else, but I know a similar discussion occurred about a year or two ago. This person used the terminology "wired", as in "we are wired to know god." It was a decent discussion.

 

[nefar559]

WITH RELIGIONS THAT ARE OLD YOU CAN STILL FIND AN ORIGIN OR CREATOR OF THAT RELIGION. I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF A CERTAIN RELIGION, I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE ORIGINS OF THE "GOD" CONCEPT. BOTH OF THESE ARE DIFFERENT TO ME.


THE CONCEPT OF SUN GODS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IS EXRTAORIDNARY TO ME. HERE IT IS YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER MET (AND I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH) YET THEY CHOOSE TO LOOK AT THE SUN AND CALL IT "GOD". KNOWING CERTAIN THINGS LED TO THE WORSHIP OF THE SUN, BY GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET EACH OTHER. THE EXACT SAME CONCEPT WAS ACCEPTED BY PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET....COULD IT BE THAT MAN HAS A GOD GENE? SOMETHING THAT CLICKS INSIDE AND SAYS "GOD"?


:HGK:


I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ALL LATER ON TONIGHT.


:HGK:

i heard a preacher say that i believe he had a phD, talking about a God gene. interesting concept.

Its just a notion that man carries inside him, man doesn't want to believe he is alone. Thats what it is, and religion fills this void, thus the birth of religion. but i would like to read more about this God gene.

as for what my comrade said, a lot of different civilizations had similiar things, maybe their science couldn't explain certain things, so they turned to the priests. I'm prety sure (back me up 20sixx) advance civilizations knew that the sun was important, so its not hard to believe the SUN was made the most important. i can see how these diffferent groups of people has similiar ideas/beliefs

 

[A1Yola415]

^this is not where u chime in dumbass.

another way to define the "god gene" would be a "faith gene." the yerning to believe that there is something more to our worldly existance. people dont have to be conscious of one another to have the need to justify their life on this planet. The scientific analysis of life: the chance formation of molecules coming together in a primordial pool to create life doesnt give people hope for thir future past the physical. There is no clear purpose in that story, there is no life after death, and there is certainly no room to value your religious laws above anothers.
poeple are dying for a purpose to life. to be able to say i am here for a reason. my life has value beyond a chance evolutionary mishap or the timing of a comet slamming into earth.
It is the egocentric persuit of the greater purpose of life that has birthed all religions. whether it was the spiteful greek gods to allah. Perhaps it is an "ego gene."
Perhaps religious ideas spurred at the same time that primitive man developed the ego and id. And the poorly evolved man above my post does well to highlight my points.

did i hit a nerve with the priest comment??????????????????? poor bitch

 

[MEXCOM]

^^ I don't think he was talking to you. I think he was talking to fridge. Since it was fridge not you who made the chime in comment.

 

[The Duke of Earl]

what heresy said about man's concept of god and how the idea of a higher being being belived by people who never met of interacted is intresting to me im not an athiest through , what amazes me is how the aztecs and eyptians built there pyramids during the same time.

 

[Fridge]

I'd just like to chime in and say my priest doesn't touch me nearly as good as you do.

You guys are a bunch of whiney fuckin' kids... who cares if they/you don't/do believe in god/nothing.

Leave it be.

^ leave it be.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

I don't believe a "God gene" or any such predisposition exists. What I say is that man has always seen the harshness, cruelty, and immorality of life, and searched to assuage feelings of futility, hopelessness,and nothingness with the thought of a God or Higher Power.

 

[HERESY]

@ WINO THAT PYRAMID THING IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT AS WELL. THE TEMPLES/CASTLES OF JAPAN ARE ALSO SIMILAR TO WHAT THE AZTECS AND EGYPTIANS CONSTRUCTED. THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY YET THEY HAVE A BUILDINGS THAT ARE SIMILAR IN DESIGN AND SIMILAR N PURPOSE.



@ 206 YOU MENTIONED THE SUN AND PEOPLE WHO WORSHIPPED IT DUE TO IMPORTANCE. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY/HOW PEOPLE CHOSE TO WORSHIP? WHY IS IT THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE CHOSE TO DO THE SAME THING WHICH IS TO WORSHIP? ALL THESE HUMANS NEEDED A SCAPEGOAT OR EXPLANATION SO MANY OF THEM (WHICH HAVE NEVER MET) FORMULATED GOD? THEY CAME WITH THE SAME CONCEPT?


YOU MENTIONED THE CHIMPS WHO USED TOOLS. THEY NEVER MET BUT THEY BOTH NEED TOOLS IN ORDER TO SURVIVE (EAT). I'M SURE THE TOOL SKILLS/INSTINCT/KNOWLEDGE ARE PASSED ON THROUGH GENES. NOW COMPARE THAT TO MAN AND WORSHIP. ONE CAN SAY (AND REMEMBER THIS IS NOT MY OPINION ON THE MATTER) EARLY MAN CAME WITH THE CONCEPT OF GOD TO EXPLAIN THE UNKNOWN, WHAT HE FEARED ETC ETC ETC. WOULD YOU COMPARE MANS "GOD" TO THE CHIMPS "TOOL"? ONE CHIMP HAS ROCKS THE OTHER HAS STICKS BUT THEY BOTH OPEN NUTS. ONE MAN HAS RA THE OTHER HAS VISHNU AND THEY BOTH WORSHIP. WHY IS IT THAT MAN CHOSE TO WORSHIP OR COME WITH "GOD"? TO EXPLAIN THE UNKOWN? WHY DIDN'T THEY SIMPLY SAY THE LIGHTING COMES FROM MCLEANHOES ASS? OR HOW ABOUT RAIN COMES FROM IDIOT LOGICS EARHOLE? WHY WORSHIP?


IF A GOD GENE EXISTS (AND I DO BELIEVE SOME OF US ARE WIRED IN TO WORSHIP) THAT WOULD MEAN ATHEIST LACK THE GENE. SORT OF LIKE A BLIND PERSON WHO LACKS THE ABILITY TO SEE OR A PERSON BORN DEAF.



@WHITE DEVIL IS IT TRUE THAT YOU ARE "ALREADY DEAD"? IF SO WHY IS THAT YOU WERE SEEKING GOD WHEN YOU WERE ON YOUR DEATH BED?


BACK @2-0-6 I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE? WAS IT ALWAYS HERE? IF NOT HOW DID IT COME ABOUT?


:HGK:



PS THIS IS A HARD TOPIC FOR ME. I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM GETTING MY POINT ACROSS BUT THIS IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

 

[nefar559]

@ WINO THAT PYRAMID THING IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT AS WELL. THE TEMPLES/CASTLES OF JAPAN ARE ALSO SIMILAR TO WHAT THE AZTECS AND EGYPTIANS CONSTRUCTED. THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY YET THEY HAVE A BUILDINGS THAT ARE SIMILAR IN DESIGN AND SIMILAR N PURPOSE.

how do u know the aztecs and egyptians didnt known each other? isn't it known that africans sailed to south america centeries before columbus sialed the ocean blue?

i heard theories about an anienct city of atlantis, but that was quite a while back. How the didn't went down, and the people just left to many different parts of the world.

 

[MEXCOM]

how do u know the aztecs and egyptians didnt known each other? isn't it known that africans sailed to south america centeries before columbus sialed the ocean blue?

Never heard about this. any links?