SCHOOL SHOOTINGS

HERESY · Oct 7, 2006

I can see how they could charge him with all of these and the only one that appears to have not much supporting it (based on the article) is the obstruction of justice. Lets look at the charges:

1. Carrying a gun on school property. He carried the gun on campus thats a fact.

2. Trespassing. He was not enrolled at the school and had no business at the school.

3. Carrying a concealed weapon. The weapon was concealed (not in plain view) which is why he dropped it (during the fight.)

4. Aggravated assault. This comes from the fact that he fought someone else and that it turned into an encounter were it was five on one.

5. Obstructing an officer. Maybe this came from the fact that he fled, or it may come from something that happened when the officer arrested him.

EDJ · Oct 7, 2006

HE CARRIED A gUN AND WENT TO THE SCHOOL. HE WAS NOT CAUgHT IN THE SCHOOL OR CAUgHT IN THE SCHOOL WITH THE POSSESSION OF THE gUN. 5 CHARgES OUT OF THAT INCIDENT IS NOT JUSTICE.

HERESY · Oct 7, 2006

EDJ said:

The gun would not have been on campus if he had not carried it to the school he was not supposed to be at. Case closed. It is not a matter of justice, it is a matter of the laws he WILLINGLY broke and how they chose to charge him. TRUMPED UP charges would be giving the guy attempted murder and saying he planned on using the gun to hurt the teen he had a fight with.

KALYN · Oct 7, 2006

EDJ said:

Had he found who he was looking for who knows if he would have used the gun he brought on school property... hard to say.. there are shootings all day every day across the country but I'm a little biased when theres an incident like this at my child's school.
The 6ft fences are going up.. theres a guard at the front door now and all the other doors are locked.. its looking more like a prison every day.

EDJ · Oct 7, 2006

HERESY said:

WOULD NOT
HAD NOT
WAS NOT
IS BROUgHT OUT FROM ONE ACTION. AND THAT IS TRUMPED UP. THE OTHA SHIT COULD BE BROUgHT UP, CAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT. I'M NOT DEFENDIN' THE BOYS ACTION(S) BUT I AM CONDEMNIN' THESE MAN-MADE LAWS CAUSE I'VE SEEN IT FIRSTHAND. FOR ONE THANg THEY WANNA OVER-EXXAgERATE AND WHEN THE SHIT IS LIKE A SNOWBALL EFFECT IN THIS YOUNg MAN'S LIFE THAT COULD'VE LEARNED A BETTER WAY INSTEAD OF MULTIPLE SHIT THAT THEY USE IN COURTROOM POLITICS. THAT'S WHY I SAY(AMONg MANY OTHA PEOPLE), "THAT NO MAN CAN JUDgE ME" OR "THAT ONLY (gOD) CAN JUDgE ME". LAWS ARE BIAS AND THE INTERPRETATION OF THEM ARE WRONgFULLY USED IN THE DISCRETION OF THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO MAKE THEM, ENFORCE THEM, AND JUDgE BY THEM.

EDJ · Oct 7, 2006

KALYN said:

THAT'S A BIg "IF". gOOD THANg NOTHIN' HAPPENED. SHOULD THE YOUNgSTA SUFFER ALL THE CHARgES CAUSE OF THE PARNOIA AFTER THE FACT?

KALYN said:

UNDERSTANDABLE. BUT ALL YOU CAN DO IS WORRY ABOUT YOURS AND HOPE THEY DON'T FALL INTO THE SAME PREDICAMENT.

KALYN said:

WELCOME TO MY WORLD.

enserio · Oct 7, 2006

EDJ said:

They did confiscate the gun, they did arrest him and take him to a detention facility. As a matter of fact, the story states that the dudes he rolls with just got released from a detention facility and continued to put in work.

This is pure speculation on your part, same as I can speculate that they (him and his friends)won't think twice, because they just got released and continued to commit crimes. Speculation gets us nowhere, so lets just stop.

And your point is just what exactly? That these charges are "trumped up"?

Red-handed? So you mean he might not have even been there with the gun in his hand? There were plenty of witnesses. He's as good as guilty.

If you know the law then why did you ask this question?

I'm not acting like anything. I simply stated, when you leave, this is what they charge you with. I am in agreement that people should be held accountable for leaving the scene of a crime. However, I do know that this charge is often abused to make people stay against their will.

You have argued against the obstruction, trespassing, and concealed weapon charge. So, what exactly do you believe this youngster is responsible for.

In all this time we (everyone in this thread) have not really brought to light the fact that this is not an isolated incident for this young man. It's not like he just snapped and this is the first act of violence he may have committed. The story that Kalyn posted said this:

EDJ · Oct 7, 2006

enserio said:

SOMEBODY FOUND THE gUN AND TURNED IT IN. THEY WENT AND FOUND HIM AFTER THE FACT. AND HE STILL gOT CHARgED WITH NUMEROUS CHARgES(WHAT I'M CONTESTIN').

enserio said:

I AIN'T SPECUALTIN' SHIT. I'VE BEEN A VICTIM OF THE SYSTEM. FOR ONE THANg TO TURN TO MULTIPLE CHARgES, I FEEL THAT IS IgNORANT AND DOESN'T FIT THE CRIME. JUST LIKE IT TAKES FIVE COP CARS TO STOP ONE VEHICLE.

enserio said:

YES, AND THE END RESULT IS THEY gAVE YOU A DEAL, BUT REALLY TRICCED YOU INTO BEIN' gUILTY OF WHAT THEY SHOULD'VE JUST CHARgED YOU ORIgINALLY FOR.

enserio said:

PROBABLY SO, BUT SINCE HE WASN'T CAUgHT RED-HANDED, IT COULD'VE EASILY BEEN A CASE OF MISTOOKEN IDENTITY. THE SCHOOL SHOULD'VE HAD BETTER SECURITY FOR INSTANCES LIKE THESE.

enserio said:

CAUSE IT'S IgNORANT. LET'S THINK LOgICALLY HERE WITHOUT TRYIN' TO STATE LAWS. IF HE HAS A gUN, AND HE UNDER-AgE, YOU THINK HE REALLY gONNA BE SHOWIN' THE gUN TO TRY TO ABIDE SOME LAW? IT'S LIKE AN AUTOMATIC STRIKE.

enserio said:

EXACTLY. FUK THE LAWS, IF I AIN'T THERE I AIN'T IN YOUR WAY.

enserio said:

IF THE YOUNgSTA WAS CAUgHT WITH A gUN, THEN JUST CHARgE HIM WITH THE gUN, AND MAYBE THE TRESPASSIN'. ALL THE OTHA SHIT IS NOTHIN' BUT BAKIN' SODA IN SOME YIP. IF YOU CHARgE HIM 100 MORE CHARgES AIN'T gONNA TAKE SHIT BAK OR MAKE THANgS BETTER. THE SHIT HAPPENED.

enserio said:

gET TO THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM. PROVE HE WAS THERE EACH AND EVERY TIME AND CHARgE HIM ACCORDINgLY. TRY TO RESOLVE WHATEVA FUNK OR IS CAUSIN' THE FUNK.

HERESY · Oct 7, 2006

They are not trumped up from one action. Trumped up is being tried for a crime that NEVER occurred or trying to try someone for a law that does not exist. HE VIOLATED THE LAW, and he is being charge don each law he broke.

This makes no sense. He is being charged with teh other crimes because they occured.

First of all, you act as if you are the only one who has done some time or seen something like this (firsthand). Who caused you to do time? Was it the system that caused you to do time or were your actions the cause?

Who is over exaggerating? ILLEGALLY CARRYING A GUN CAN AND WILL LEAD TO MORE THAN ONE CHARGE. Again, if they had indicted him on attempted murder THAT would be a trumped up charge, but charges stemming from the initial violation are NOT, and these aren't even ENHANCEMENT violations. And learn a better way? You are acting as if this is the guys first or second offense. He is a REPEAT offender.

.

LMAO!!!!!

CannibalCrow · Oct 7, 2006

The PA shooting happened 30 minutes from me. I live in Lancaster.

It really affected the community around here. I worked at a bank in Paradise and also in Quarryville.

This is basically the topic of conversation we've been dealing with since it happened.

HERESY · Oct 7, 2006

1. True or False it is against the law for a minor to have a firearm?

Did the minor in question have a firearm?

2. True or False in order to carry a firearm in a public place on your person (or close in proximity) you must have a concealed carry privelage?

Did the minor in question have a concealed carry privelage, and at anytime he was on campus was the gun on his person?

3. True or False non-students are usually not allowed on campus?

Was the minor a student and was he in violation of tresspassing laws?

4. True or False the boy and several others had a 5 on 1 fight with another student?

If this was not MUTUAL COMBAT, and 5 people attacked one person can that not be considered assualt?

Now, the ONLY thing we cannot determine (based on the article) is the obstruction of justice. We do not know if he encountered the officer or if anything happened when the arrest was made. However, we do know he and 4 other people attacked one person. We do know he was not supposed to be on school grounds. We do know he had a firearm. We do know while he was on campus he had a firearm on his person or in close proximity.

KALYN · Oct 8, 2006

EDJ said:

This 'younsta' is a repeat offender.. and paranoia?.. are you serious? .. he got charged with the crimes he committed.
This isnt some case of a kid being at the wrong place at the wrong time-- there were 3 shootings the night before this kid showed up at the High School with a loaded gun.. I'm thinkin' the 'IF' isnt so little.

EDJ said:

As for my sons falling into the same predicament... these arent situations you 'fall' into.

KALYN · Oct 8, 2006

HERESY said:

Well said.

I do know there was an altercation of some sort with the two kids involved and police shortly after they took off.

This isnt the end of the particular run in out here.. there has already been retaliation at the homes of the kids involved and the school has been locked down twice after the incident as a 'precautionary measure'...

EDJ · Oct 8, 2006

HERESY said:

THAT'S WHAT I'M SPEAKIN' ABOUT, THE LAWS MADE DON'T REFLECT THE ACTUAL ACTION. IT'S A BUNCH OF CHARgES THAT STEM FROM ONE ACTION. THAT'S NOT JUSTICE. SAY YOU TOOK A PISS. THEN THEY CHARgE YOU WITH PISSIN'. THEN ANOTHA CHARgE IS PISSIN' IN PUBLIC. THEN THE NEXT CHARgE IS INDECENT EXPOSURE. THEN THE ANOTHA CHARgE IS LITTERIN'. ALL CAUSE OF ONE THANg. IT'S NOT AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

HERESY said:

CAUSE THEY MAKE THESE LAWS. AgAIN. IT'S ONE ACTION THAT RESULTS IN VARIOUS CHARgES AND IN MY OPINION IT'S EXAgERATED.

HERESY said:

NO I'M NOT. I'M ONLY SPEAKIN' FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

HERESY said:

THE SYSTEM CAUSED ME TO UNNECESARILY LOSE TIME INSTEAD OF LOOKIN' AT MY WHOLE SITUATION. MY ACTIONS CAUSED ATTENTION. BUT AFTER THE FACT, THE SHIT WAS OVER-EXXAgERATED.

HERESY said:

NO SHIT, THAT'S WHAT THESE MAN-MADE LAWS DO.

HERESY said:

REgARDLESS, ONE ACTION, ONE CHARgE IS REAL JUSTICE.

HERESY said:

REgARDLESS IF HE'S A REPEAT OFFENDER. YOU DON'T gIVE THE MAN EXTRA CHARgES. IF YOU A REPEAT OFFENDER THAT IS ONLY USED WHEN SENTENCIN'. YOU ARE INNOCENT TIL PROVEN gUILTY.

HERESY said:

AIN'T NOTHIN' FUNNY ABOUT WHAT I STRESSED. I gIVE CEASAR WHAT'S HIS, BUT FUK' EM.

HERESY · Oct 8, 2006

Yes they do.

No. He had several actions that led to being charged with several crimes. He was not supposed to be present on campus (an action) and this led to being charged with trespassing. He and four other people attacked another person (an action) and this resulted in being charged with a form of assault. He is a minor in possession of a weapon (an action) and is being charged with possessing a firearm. He carried the weapon on his person (an action) and does not have a permit to CCW. Now, I have CONSTANTLY stated that it is hard to determine the case of obstruction because we don't know if he fled from the officer or if something happened when he was arrested.

However, if he had been on campus without a gun would he had been charged with the gun violations? No. If he had never been on campus would he have been charged with anything? No. If he was on campus but never assault the other guy would he have been charged with assualt? No. He violated specific laws in each case, and none of these are enhancements.

They are not going to charge you for taking a piss. The first charge would be doing it in public. The next charge MAY be indecent exposure depending on who is around. LMAO@littering. I don't beilieve that would fall under that category. Also, who said things in THIS society were supposed to be "eye for an eye"?

So, are implying he should not be charged with possession of the firearm even though he was on campus? Would the firearm had been on campus if he did not bring it? Please provide the board with a logical explanation on why he should NOT be charged for brining the gun on campus? HE HAS DIFFERENT ACTIONS, EDJ!!!!! If he had NEVER been on campus with a gun he would have NEVER been charged with trespassing. If he had NEVER assualted the other guy he would have NEVER been charged with assault!!!!

Which is jaded........

No, the system doesn't give a SHIT about you or anyone else, but this IS the best legal system in the world today (and this is coming from someone who is considered "anti-establishment".) Your actions caused attention? Were ANY of those actions ILLEGAL? If you say yes, you made your own bed. Don't give the APPEARANCE OF EVIL (read the scriptures), but I am not saying some charges are not over exaggerated but in the case of this boy he specially broke different sectiosn of the penal code and NONE of these are enhancements.

Can you please tell the board WHAT extra charges he is getting? As I said before he does NOT have ANY enhancements and everything he is being charged with are SEPERATE penal violations.

So he should be charged with tresspassing and not charged with aggravated assault? He should be charged with possession of a firearm but not charged with tresspassing?

If only God can judge you I suggest you go rob several banks in a 24 hour period. After you do so I want you to go to the police station, admit to doing the crime (if they don't catch you first), get taken in custody, stand before a judge and tell him "ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME". I can almost say with certainty that you'll either receive a lengthy sentence ,or you'll be commited to state hospital until you are mentally competent to stand trial. In both cases MAN would have judged you.

EDJ · Oct 8, 2006

^I UNDA-STAND YOUR POINT. MY BIgKEST PEEVE IS FROM ONE THANg THEY BRINg TWO OR THREE. LIKE IF YOU CAUgHT WITH YIP, THEY CHARgE YOU WITH THE "POSSESSION" AND THEN "POSSESSION WITH INTENT" AND THEN FOR "PAKAgIN' AND DISTRIBUTION." THAT'S 3 THANgS THAT COME OUT OF ONE.
BUT MAN MADE LAWS ARE MADE BY MEN AND WILL BE CHARgED BY MEN, ENFORCED BY MEN, AND WILL BE JUDgED BY MEN. I AIN'T DISPUTIN' THAT. BUT IN MY HEART AND CONSCIENCE IS WHAT I WAS TALKIN' BOUT.
ALL I'M AgAINST IN THIS INSTANCE IS THE gUN CHARgE BEIN' TWO DIFFERENT CHARgES. THAT LAW SUKS IN MY OPINION. CAUSE IT'S EITHA TWO CHARgES OR NONE RIgHT?

WHITE DEVIL · Oct 8, 2006

Fuck all this shit.

hadoken

[/LEFT]

HERESY · Oct 8, 2006

WHITE DEVIL said:

??????????

HERESY · Oct 8, 2006

This has not happened in this instance. NONE of the charges are enhancments.

Because you have it on your person or they saw you toss it.

Depending on HOW the substance was packaged. Was it packaged up to be sold or was in unwrapped? These things come into play.

Depening on how it was packaged, HOW much of it was found and WHERE the person was found.

No it isn't. Back in the day I got caught with a quarter of tree's, and because it wasn't bagged up to be sold, I got a possession ticket and was ordered to appear in court. The AMOUNT was not large enough to charge me with packaing and distribution, and the way the trees were wrapped up (not in inidivual baggies) didn't call for me to be charged with intent.

I hear you, but in reality your heart and conscience doesn't matter if you are serving a 99 year sentence.

Because its two different crimes.

No.

EDJ · Oct 9, 2006

^YES. EITHA YOU SHOW YOUR STRAP AND THEY WON'T CHARgE YOU FOR SHIT, OR YOU HAVE A STRAP ON YOUR PERSON AND gET TWO CHARgES.

SCHOOL SHOOTINGS

THE HIDDEN HAND...

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THE HIDDEN HAND...

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