Proteus X - Say good bye to EMU hardware
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I was going to make a thread about how hardware options are limited now. Emu hasn't made anything really new, roland continues to revamp old products, korg does the same thing, kurzweil is on the verge of going bankrupt (something I heard from a kurzweil dealer) akai had a fucked up os with the mpc 4000....Where are the NEW products?
There's going to be less & less.. Hardware costs too much to develope and manufacture as opposed to software. People would rather build a $3000 top-of-the-line computer and load it with countless software than buy a single workstation for the same price. I know I would.
While I'm not planning on getting rid of the hardware I have, I've been converting over to a primarily computer-based setup. The possibilities are undeniable.
While I'm not planning on getting rid of the hardware I have, I've been converting over to a primarily computer-based setup. The possibilities are undeniable.
It's going to be a while more until software units can emulate the warmth of analog devices. Then again many people say that the tube on the Triton Extreme is a gimmick. If you want warmth, you're not going to get far from vintage tubes and nice analog consoles. That's the only way to go if you want that sound.
Hardware should be required in my honest opinion and heres why. Let's say you're recording in pro tools and you want to record vocals, drums, bass guitar...basically anything with a lot of transiets and peaks. Well the software compressors DON'T compress the signal going in. With that being said you run the risk of overloading the A-D converters on the way in. You have to apply compression afterwards but imho it just isn't the same.
only thing is, i can't find soundsets anywhere
i wanna load my emulator x with some more e-mu soundsets the only one available at the moment is the beat shop 2, i don't need drum loops, i can make those on my own thank you
but the vintage pro soundsets 1 and 2 are droppin soon, so i'll be happy with that
already comes loaded with the proteus composer(dope) and i think mo phat, but it might be somethin different
i wanna load my emulator x with some more e-mu soundsets the only one available at the moment is the beat shop 2, i don't need drum loops, i can make those on my own thank you
but the vintage pro soundsets 1 and 2 are droppin soon, so i'll be happy with that
already comes loaded with the proteus composer(dope) and i think mo phat, but it might be somethin different
Yes overloading the converters on the way in is possible and it happens all the time. Have you ever clipped a signal? Did you like that nasty sound that hit your ears? That sound is digital distortion. It happens when you've overloaded the converter going in which just happens to be the A-D converter. You can find A LOT of info about this on the net, mix magazine, eq magazine, electronic musician, gig, etc etc etc. IMHO the best way to prevent would be to apply a compressor/limiter or REDUCE the gain going in.
recording to a digital format= 0db. ANYTHING above that and your looking at distortion.
recording to analog format= +6 to +9db depending on what sound is desired (+6 is the usual).
If you would like more insight or clarification I'd be happy to go in depth but remember the following. When your peak levels aren't high enough you're basically sending the unused bits of resolution to never never land.....or la la land...or limbo....You want to take advantage of your dynamic range while reducing peaks and transiets.
Now ask yourself a question:
"WHEN I RECORD AT 24 BIT (or 16 bit) BUT MY PEAK LEVELS BARELY HIT -6db AM I TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF MY 24 BITS?"
2 buss compression is usually applied to the stereo buss AFTER the song has been mixed down, during mixing or transfer to other format such as stereo buss compression while dumping to analog tape. You are incorrect when you say most studios don't compress on the way in. Compressing on the way in is a matter of engineers preference and to be honest most engineers I know and big studios I've been to DO compress on the way in. Ever recorded an electric guitar with distortion pedals? How about a drummer who isn't conssistant with his snare or kick licks? How about a bass guitar?
So let's say you have a nice vocal take but the vocalist peaked in two areas. Do you think adding compression after it's been tracked will reduce those overs? I hope you don't.
Let's say you have a vocal take you tracked with compression. It sounds even but it's squashed. Can you undo it? Nope.
It's a matter of taste and preference but IMHO you should track guitars, drums, vocals and bass with slight compression. Buss compression should be used when the song is mixed down/finished, but personally I'm against it now. Yes it helps prevent buss and summing overloads but the final sound doesnt cut it for me. besides the mastering engineer will do a better job at compressing your final mix.
You ever tried mixing a song while a compressor was inserted? Do it in pro tools and tell me what happens. Mix a song in pro tools WITHOUT buss compression applied. After you've finished mixing apply the compressor to the master fader. Take the same song (hopefully your working from a copy) and MIX it with buss compression instead of applying it after you've mixed it.
Tell me your results after you do it.
:hgk:
recording to a digital format= 0db. ANYTHING above that and your looking at distortion.
recording to analog format= +6 to +9db depending on what sound is desired (+6 is the usual).
If you would like more insight or clarification I'd be happy to go in depth but remember the following. When your peak levels aren't high enough you're basically sending the unused bits of resolution to never never land.....or la la land...or limbo....You want to take advantage of your dynamic range while reducing peaks and transiets.
Now ask yourself a question:
"WHEN I RECORD AT 24 BIT (or 16 bit) BUT MY PEAK LEVELS BARELY HIT -6db AM I TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF MY 24 BITS?"
2 buss compression is usually applied to the stereo buss AFTER the song has been mixed down, during mixing or transfer to other format such as stereo buss compression while dumping to analog tape. You are incorrect when you say most studios don't compress on the way in. Compressing on the way in is a matter of engineers preference and to be honest most engineers I know and big studios I've been to DO compress on the way in. Ever recorded an electric guitar with distortion pedals? How about a drummer who isn't conssistant with his snare or kick licks? How about a bass guitar?
So let's say you have a nice vocal take but the vocalist peaked in two areas. Do you think adding compression after it's been tracked will reduce those overs? I hope you don't.
Let's say you have a vocal take you tracked with compression. It sounds even but it's squashed. Can you undo it? Nope.
It's a matter of taste and preference but IMHO you should track guitars, drums, vocals and bass with slight compression. Buss compression should be used when the song is mixed down/finished, but personally I'm against it now. Yes it helps prevent buss and summing overloads but the final sound doesnt cut it for me. besides the mastering engineer will do a better job at compressing your final mix.
You ever tried mixing a song while a compressor was inserted? Do it in pro tools and tell me what happens. Mix a song in pro tools WITHOUT buss compression applied. After you've finished mixing apply the compressor to the master fader. Take the same song (hopefully your working from a copy) and MIX it with buss compression instead of applying it after you've mixed it.
Tell me your results after you do it.
:hgk:
well,i don't compress in at the moment
but ghazi doesa nd i love the way vocals come out
but like i said, i don't compress and ghazi says i'm one of the cats with the best vocal recordings brought to his studio
we did have a problem when one of our artists recorded drunk and the range was all over so ghazi had to double compress it, but still you can do what you need
but i do plan to get a pendelum quarter micpre/compressor/eq/desser soon...best 2,500 bucks any one can spend on getting amazing vocals
peace
and heresey, i wasn't testing you, i was asking for advice, you should know that much
hit me on aim, cus i'd like to discuss further
but ghazi doesa nd i love the way vocals come out
but like i said, i don't compress and ghazi says i'm one of the cats with the best vocal recordings brought to his studio
we did have a problem when one of our artists recorded drunk and the range was all over so ghazi had to double compress it, but still you can do what you need
but i do plan to get a pendelum quarter micpre/compressor/eq/desser soon...best 2,500 bucks any one can spend on getting amazing vocals
peace
and heresey, i wasn't testing you, i was asking for advice, you should know that much
hit me on aim, cus i'd like to discuss further
i've heard horrible things about liquid channel
focusrite is a company that should just die...
the only thing they put out since the red series taht sounded good was the rupert neve designed pre
nah, the liquid channel is crap...i heard a dmo, and almost everything sounded the same, sterile...then again, some people love it
i'm goin with the pendelum, if not that, the new buzz audio channel strip,
if y'all want dope vocals take a look at those two channel strips
skip the liquid channel
focusrite is a company that should just die...
the only thing they put out since the red series taht sounded good was the rupert neve designed pre
nah, the liquid channel is crap...i heard a dmo, and almost everything sounded the same, sterile...then again, some people love it
i'm goin with the pendelum, if not that, the new buzz audio channel strip,
if y'all want dope vocals take a look at those two channel strips
skip the liquid channel
^^^^^ If I'm not mistaking digi design pres are focusrite pres also. IMHO they are some of the best "stock" pres you can find in a daw or audio interface.
The buzz strip you mentioned is the ARC 1.1 right?
When you heard the liquid channel did you hear mics, instruments, keyboards? I read so much about the unit and considered pre ordering one before it dropped. It's different from "modeling" and I understand the process of how it mimics the different pres, compressors, eq etc etc etc. No other company is doing that right now but most will catch on. Whats cool about strips is the fact that you eliminate more in the recording chain. If you were to run your mic through a seperate pre, compressor and eq (side chain the compressor and eq) you'll degrade the chain. Speaking of side chain what are the inputs and outputs like on both units you listed?
:hgk:
The buzz strip you mentioned is the ARC 1.1 right?
When you heard the liquid channel did you hear mics, instruments, keyboards? I read so much about the unit and considered pre ordering one before it dropped. It's different from "modeling" and I understand the process of how it mimics the different pres, compressors, eq etc etc etc. No other company is doing that right now but most will catch on. Whats cool about strips is the fact that you eliminate more in the recording chain. If you were to run your mic through a seperate pre, compressor and eq (side chain the compressor and eq) you'll degrade the chain. Speaking of side chain what are the inputs and outputs like on both units you listed?
:hgk:
well, if i'm not mistaken the focusrite is transormless and tubeless...(though tubes without the right chip/transformer/etc can just be a gimmick)
here's the pendelum
http://www.atlasproaudio.com/quartet.html
here's the buzz
http://www.atlasproaudio.com/buzz.html
they both have the optional sidechain eq
right now, i feel like i'm kicking most peoples vocals in the ass... with my rode ntk summit 2ba-221 setup
i'm saving up for a S-e Gemini, or i might just go with the Isis mic...
i'm gonna keep the summit audio as a di for bass and electric guitar...and i'll do all my "thick"recording through it
the summit sounds like you add some missippi mud to the vocals ...but i just don't feel like buying a seperate eq and compressor...
it's shameful how rap artists misuse eq on vocals, add a lil high, take out a lil low
but i'll get at you
i'm ramblin
here's the pendelum
http://www.atlasproaudio.com/quartet.html
here's the buzz
http://www.atlasproaudio.com/buzz.html
they both have the optional sidechain eq
right now, i feel like i'm kicking most peoples vocals in the ass... with my rode ntk summit 2ba-221 setup
i'm saving up for a S-e Gemini, or i might just go with the Isis mic...
i'm gonna keep the summit audio as a di for bass and electric guitar...and i'll do all my "thick"recording through it
the summit sounds like you add some missippi mud to the vocals ...but i just don't feel like buying a seperate eq and compressor...
it's shameful how rap artists misuse eq on vocals, add a lil high, take out a lil low
but i'll get at you
i'm ramblin
http://www.sintefex.com/
That is the company that is really responsible for the Liquid channel, focusrite just sub contracted them.
Ive read alot of different opinions on the Liquid Channel, I've never heard it so I cant comment. But the big thing to look at before you buy this box is that it starts out as an analogue front end ( its custom transformer is also responsible for its many different tones ) but the compressor is digital, hence it will go from the mic pre to an A/D stage. So if you want to knock some of those peaks off while compressing on the way in, this box cant do it. Oh well you cant have it all I guess.
That is the company that is really responsible for the Liquid channel, focusrite just sub contracted them.
Ive read alot of different opinions on the Liquid Channel, I've never heard it so I cant comment. But the big thing to look at before you buy this box is that it starts out as an analogue front end ( its custom transformer is also responsible for its many different tones ) but the compressor is digital, hence it will go from the mic pre to an A/D stage. So if you want to knock some of those peaks off while compressing on the way in, this box cant do it. Oh well you cant have it all I guess.