Obama legal team wants to limit defendants' rights.

[HERESY]

Haven't had time. Too busy destroying America and implementing the Socialist, Facist, Marxist doctrine that will continue to enslave the poor and malcontents............... Heil, Heil, Heil........ lol..........

At least you're honest.

 

[radiostationrep]

@ heresy

there is no doubt you are a very intelligent individual. imo probably the most intelligent on this website. i definately dont think you have comprehension issues or think i'm more knowledgable than you. but not all law enforcement follows protocol and or proper procedures in regards to gathering intelligence when investigating a case. although you personally may follow proper procedure when dealing with suspects, not all do. the different methods of initial contact you listed are stepping stones to proceed to the next level of questioning/interrogation. whether they are correct in their assesment, the suspect/suspects doesnt decide that, the court system does.this ruling will no doubt give attorneys less ground to stand on in regards to supressing evidence gathered illegally so to speak. i stand corrected. it will make a difference, but wont change conduct already being displayed by rogue officers was what i meant. i know the reid technique has to do with reading suspects body language and determining whether the truth is being said, but I am not that familiar with it.

edit: i'll figure out the multiple quote feature at some point.

 

[radiostationrep]

Agreed, but what about interviews, consensual encounters and in-field investigations?

these labels are distinctly different from a legal aspect. i dont disagree. but whether this was done and or labeled an interview, consensual encounter or an in-field investigation because of the deceitful manner they were administered would be my question.

If this ruling were reversed, what does it say about our system, due process and the fifth and sixth amendments?

i agree with you.the system, as we know it, is a big revenue generator. it is flawed like we all are and money/personal interest rule the land and the system. people's rights are getting violated regardless. this will definately add to the list of rights being stripped.

Moreover, if this is reversed, is there a chance this can lead to more coerced confessions, more warrants based on such confessions, and questionable evidence derived from both, not supressed, and used in a court of law?

yes, you are correct. it will lead to all of the above. but it still happens today with or without the new guidelines being passed.law enforcement officials are human and like everything else, there are the good and the bad. questionable evidence is challenged successfully on a daily basis. cases get thrown out because the evidence in question was illegally obtained. arrests are still made, people's lives are still disrupted, and eventually the court may find the wrongdoing. it still doesnt change the fact the individual was arrested and charged.

What particular interrogations happen daily? Ones where a person asks for counsel and the interrogation doesn't stop, or one where the person never asks for counsel?

Both. i have personally asked for counsel after being read my miranda rights and was still pressed with questions and the usual "you sure you dont want to talk" spill. ultimately it's a suspect's word against an officer's. we know who's word holds more weight in a court of law unless undisputable evidence proving the false accusations were unprecedented. if a person doesnt ask for counsel, it is his/her mistake. After of course being read your miranda rights if you are in fact under arrest. obviously "fishing" for intelligence can be considered a consensual encounter but still if it was done in a deceitful manner, it should be classified as illegal. how do you prove what an officers true intentions are if he doesnt admit such?

No, it does not warrant interrogation from a legal standpoint, and I'll show you why your analogy is wrong and would not hold up in a reasonable court.

i agree with you 100% that it would have trouble standing up in court. it doesnt change the fact that an arrest was still made.


*Edit*i figured the multiple quote thing out. i wanted to test it out. that's why my last post was deleted. i appreciate the fact we can have a civil conversation/debate although your knowledge does trump mine, i am aware of this. no disrespect intended.

 

[basment-music]

I already read that the other day....

I'm astounded but not surprised.

Obama is evil as hell... Hes on a psychotic mission of destroying the United States, our Constitution and overall domestic economic policy is being over ruled by this nut job Obama.

The man is epically dangerous..

The only way to describe Obama would be with a Goodfellas quote - "your enemies greet you with a smile"

Chairman Mao used the same tactics and so did Hitler, of course their overall goals are different in a sense but Obama, Mao and Hitler share one major political ideology and thats "government knows best"

how can you be astounded and not surprised? Is that even possible?

 

[mocheezkc]

@ heresy

there is no doubt you are a very intelligent individual. imo probably the most intelligent on this website. i definately dont think you have comprehension issues or think i'm more knowledgable than you. but not all law enforcement follows protocol and or proper procedures in regards to gathering intelligence when investigating a case. although you personally may follow proper procedure when dealing with suspects, not all do. the different methods of initial contact you listed are stepping stones to proceed to the next level of questioning/interrogation. whether they are correct in their assesment, the suspect/suspects doesnt decide that, the court system does.this ruling will no doubt give attorneys less ground to stand on in regards to supressing evidence gathered illegally so to speak. i stand corrected. it will make a difference, but wont change conduct already being displayed by rogue officers was what i meant. i know the reid technique has to do with reading suspects body language and determining whether the truth is being said, but I am not that familiar with it.

edit: i'll figure out the multiple quote feature at some point.

I understand you respecting a nerd for his intelligence, but Heresy is more than likely the kind of person that will NEVER, EVER, EVER, catch a case or even associate with people that would/could jeopardize his own freedom. I'll be willing to put money up that he's the kind of cat that has never even had a speeding/traffic ticket..... lol...... 21st Century Nerd on the Net...... No athletic ability, no bitches, no money, just brains, a keyboard, and arrogance.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Heresy is more than likely the kind of person that will NEVER, EVER, EVER, catch a case or even associate with people that would/could jeopardize his own freedom

LMAO

Is that a compliment or an insult?

 

[HERESY]

I understand you respecting a nerd for his intelligence, but Heresy is more than likely the kind of person that will NEVER, EVER, EVER, catch a case or even associate with people that would/could jeopardize his own freedom. I'll be willing to put money up that he's the kind of cat that has never even had a speeding/traffic ticket..... lol...... 21st Century Nerd on the Net...... No athletic ability, no bitches, no money, just brains, a keyboard, and arrogance.

The fact that none of this is true, and people on this site can come to this thread and vouche for me and my history, prove I don't need to respond to you in the way you desire.

Now, in another thread you were asked to contribute or leave, I'm pretty sure the mod is growing weary of your actions.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

No athletic ability, no bitches, no money, just brains, a keyboard, and arrogance.

Why are those even criteria you judge someone by?


I know many good people who are not athletic, popular with the opposite sex, or financially successful, but they are still good people.


Also, judging someone by how many "bitches" they have is really giving a lot more credit to women and their selection criteria than it deserves. Why would you let what women think of someone influence how you think about someone unless you were looking for the same thing as those women?

 

[HERESY]

^^^ It simply shows you where his priorities are and what he believes is the fulfillment of life.

 

[radiostationrep]

I understand you respecting a nerd for his intelligence, but Heresy is more than likely the kind of person that will NEVER, EVER, EVER, catch a case or even associate with people that would/could jeopardize his own freedom. I'll be willing to put money up that he's the kind of cat that has never even had a speeding/traffic ticket..... lol...... 21st Century Nerd on the Net...... No athletic ability, no bitches, no money, just brains, a keyboard, and arrogance.

this may be true. he actually seems to be a cop imo. understanding his thought process can only help my understanding of a regular person's thought process that has educated themselves and now feels because of it, they are superior to all. we know this isnt the case, but it does put them at a distict advantage to a degree. real life experiences help round the individual you become. we definately have lived a little and can put things in a perspective others cant. intelligence is one thing, real life experience is another.

it's like looking at a bedroom door. common sense tells you there is a bed, a t.v. a dresser, etc. an educated person can come to that logical conclusion. but what they cant do is give you the logistics of the rooms set-up, tell you how to navigate amongst the furniture, and what is really in there. my point is that people cant tell others how to change or give advice in regards to things they never experienced. yet this is how our system,education system, etc. are set -up. that's why people like heresy feel superior imo. but that isnt the case. although people may thrive in one area while another doesnt, the other person may be just as savy in another area they arent. i know you get what i'm saying mocheekz. he may be what you described, but i'm not gonna join the party so to speak.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

^^^ It simply shows you where his priorities are and what he believes is the fulfillment of life.

Which in all actuality is fine...everyone has different goals and daily aspirations. But people don't need to bash one another for having different priorities.

Some people find life fulfilling through sleeping with many women, others find it in acquiring knowledge.

I like pizza.

 

[mocheezkc]

this may be true. he actually seems to be a cop imo. understanding his thought process can only help my understanding of a regular person's thought process that has educated themselves and now feels because of it, they are superior to all. we know this isnt the case, but it does put them at a distict advantage to a degree. real life experiences help round the individual you become. we definately have lived a little and can put things in a perspective others cant. intelligence is one thing, real life experience is another.

it's like looking at a bedroom door. common sense tells you there is a bed, a t.v. a dresser, etc. an educated person can come to that logical conclusion. but what they cant do is give you the logistics of the rooms set-up, tell you how to navigate amongst the furniture, and what is really in there. my point is that people cant tell others how to change or give advice in regards to things they never experienced. yet this is how our system,education system, etc. are set -up. that's why people like heresy feel superior imo. but that isnt the case. although people may thrive in one area while another doesnt, the other person may be just as savy in another area they arent. i know you get what i'm saying mocheekz. he may be what you described, but i'm not gonna join the party so to speak.

I just like talking shit........lol........

 

[mocheezkc]

^^^ It simply shows you where his priorities are and what he believes is the fulfillment of life.

Yes, it is true, i would rather fuck bitches and make money than read a book. I am guilty.

 

[HERESY]

Fools?!?!

@radio you said:

this may be true. he actually seems to be a cop imo. understanding his thought process can only help my understanding of a regular person's thought process that has educated themselves and now feels because of it, they are superior to all. we know this isnt the case, but it does put them at a distict advantage to a degree. real life experiences help round the individual you become. we definately have lived a little and can put things in a perspective others cant. intelligence is one thing, real life experience is another.

No, I'm not a cop, I'm far from being a cop and wouldn't take the job. You talk about real life experience, but I can direct at least 10 people from this site to this thread and they will all tell you where I'm from, what I've been through and where I am now.

it's like looking at a bedroom door. common sense tells you there is a bed, a t.v. a dresser, etc. an educated person can come to that logical conclusion. but what they cant do is give you the logistics of the rooms set-up, tell you how to navigate amongst the furniture, and what is really in there. my point is that people cant tell others how to change or give advice in regards to things they never experienced. yet this is how our system,education system, etc. are set -up. that's why people like heresy feel superior imo.but that isnt the case. although people may thrive in one area while another doesnt, the other person may be just as savy in another area they arent. i know you get what i'm saying mocheekz. he may be what you described, but i'm not gonna join the party so to speak.

There is no superiority complex, only people not aware of the obvious truth that "a fool would appear wise if he keeps his mouth shut."

This is simply the nature of the beast as it relates to this forum. There are many intelligent people here, some moreso than others, but we all have our hangups, misconceptions, etc that we bring to the table. However, look at a persons intent and you'll get the bigger picture. For example, sometimes I'll go at Mr. Nice Guy a certain way, and I'm pretty sure he's thinking, "Damn why is H coming at me like that?" The thing is, certain people and situations call for certain measures and my way of presenting something is to force them to think--and that's really the bulk of it. Present something or say something that will allow the person to think in a way they never thought before. Take off the blinders, look at it from various perspectives, etc. Now, occasionally, there are a few people who say things that really deserve a verbal/typed ass kicking and there are times when people should be ignored because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. You fall into the first group. However, our friend here falls into the second group and there is no need for me to truly address him. Ever. Why? well, I think Twain summed it up best, "Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."

 

[HERESY]

Which in all actuality is fine...everyone has different goals and daily aspirations. But people don't need to bash one another for having different priorities.

Some people find life fulfilling through sleeping with many women, others find it in acquiring knowledge.

I like pizza.

It's fine if thats what you do, and yes everyone does have different goals and aspirations. However, Nice guy made the comment about using it as a criteria to judge someone, and I'm simply stating that he's using that as a criteria because that is where his heart is, and guess what? He admitted to it. The thing he fails to grasp, however, is that he's making himself to be the fool, and because he is afraid to comment on BH and this thread in a logical manner, he feels as though it would be better to throw madness in the mix. Life, and everything that you all have experienced proves that people who are "just talking shit" and making claims of having riches or having conquered many women are usually dummies, people who don't have a pot to piss in, and have a skittle sized dick. I can't stop these people from doing what they do, I can't stop them from begging me for change, nor can I ever stop them from trying to wash my windows when I pull up to a light.

I deal with it.

 

[radiostationrep]

No, I'm not a cop, I'm far from being a cop and wouldn't take the job. You talk about real life experience, but I can direct at least 10 people from this site to this thread and they will all tell you where I'm from, what I've been through and where I am now.

that very well may be the case, i'm not disputing it. i have to check myself at times because i am no one to judge the next man. making a change for the betterment of ones self is something i'm in full support of. the way you defended the interrogation methods by police lead me to believe you were a cop. it was as if you felt all cops follow procedure and if it is written in law, they follow it. that was my misinterpretation.

There is no superiority complex, only people not aware of the obvious truth that "a fool would appear wise if he keeps his mouth shut."

but you have to ask questions to get answers. we were all fools at one time in our life. some still more so than others.(me, no doubt) but if you been in the so-called game/struggle, and i'm not talking just as a teen, you know the real struggles and there are bright minds out there that need enlightenment. catorgorizing them as fools isnt the way. imo. educating them is. they can get to the point you are at if given the right advice. all it takes is helping them see the light.

This is simply the nature of the beast as it relates to this forum. There are many intelligent people here, some moreso than others, but we all have our hangups, misconceptions, etc that we bring to the table. However, look at a persons intent and you'll get the bigger picture. For example, sometimes I'll go at Mr. Nice Guy a certain way, and I'm pretty sure he's thinking, "Damn why is H coming at me like that?" The thing is, certain people and situations call for certain measures and my way of presenting something is to force them to think--and that's really the bulk of it. Present something or say something that will allow the person to think in a way they never thought before. Take off the blinders, look at it from various perspectives, etc. Now, occasionally, there are a few people who say things that really deserve a verbal/typed ass kicking and there are times when people should be ignored because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. You fall into the first group. However, our friend here falls into the second group and there is no need for me to truly address him. Ever. Why? well, I think Twain summed it up best, "Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."

i can respect this. but just because of different views on things isnt a reason to hate anybody or even start judging them. we all made/make mistakes and or interpret things differently. it's not what you say but how you say it in the end.

ultimately i made the mistake of judging people based on their typed words. you may very well be the person i am trying to become in my own way. you can take many different paths and still end up at the same place as the rest in the end. away from the computer we all are capable of attaining and achieving the same things in life. some get it early, some later. but rather than look down on these people that arent getting it, i want to try and pick them up because i was just as blind at one time. i still am in alot of ways. you definately opened my mind up to a few things and perspectives. this forum definately is the most stimulating on this website. there is a needle in every haystack.

 

[radiostationrep]

I just like talking shit........lol........

i think every human is guilty of this. the subject and shit being talk just differs.

 

[HERESY]

that very well may be the case, i'm not disputing it. i have to check myself at times because i am no one to judge the next man. making a change for the betterment of ones self is something i'm in full support of. the way you defended the interrogation methods by police lead me to believe you were a cop. it was as if you felt all cops follow procedure and if it is written in law, they follow it. that was my misinterpretation.

No, what it is was I was very fortunate/blessed enough to have a very intelligent person take me under their wing. When it comes to police officers, you have good ones and bad ones, and based on my experiences, the bad outweigh the good. Cops do bad shit all the time, and the only way I see us being able to fight this is if we actually educate ourself in the areas of law and law enforcement and encourage our people i.e. anyone that has been disenfranchised and not recognized by status quo to do the same. You can't pick up a gun and mow them all down, as they have the government backing them 100%. You come with a gun and kill four of them, they'll come with more guns, kill 40 of you and walk.

However, I understand there is a stigma with becoming law enforcement, but there are other areas where people need help. Right now, you have plenty of people in jail that were actually innocent, but due to not having money for a lawyer, or some mentor/advocate speaking for them, they were given a Buck Rogers date. We need more people in these areas, as well as law enforcement, to help balance things out.

but you have to ask questions to get answers. we were all fools at one time in our life. some still more so than others.(me, no doubt) but if you been in the so-called game/struggle, and i'm not talking just as a teen, you know the real struggles and there are bright minds out there that need enlightenment. catorgorizing them as fools isnt the way. imo. educating them is. they can get to the point you are at if given the right advice. all it takes is helping them see the light.

I understand there are bright minds out there, people struggling, people needing help, etc--especially in the hood. This is why I don't endorse the "do for self" philosphy that many people buy into. Everyone can't do for self, and I can't help everyone, however, it is my duty as a human being to help where I can. What if the person I help finds the cure for some incurrable disease? What if they find a new energy source? People believe say shit like, "I can't give you a fish but I'll show you how to catch one." But have you ever gone fishing? You can fish for hours, and not get so much as a bite. You can also get a fish on your line but the bastard may run off with it, get you snagged in between rocks and now you're out of line and have no more bait. So in the meantime, I'll give you a fish, and I'll show you how to catch it, that's the shit I'm on.

i can respect this. but just because of different views on things isnt a reason to hate anybody or even start judging them. we all made/make mistakes and or interpret things differently. it's not what you say but how you say it in the end.

And I say things that force people to get over the emotional aspect. Once you are not clouded by emotions you get the bigger picture. Again, my purpose when I post in this forum is not to persuade you to believe one thing or another, rather, it is to get you to think outside the box. There are many people here with their own "style" of posting, you simply have to get to the root of what it is they are saying, and why they are saying it, and you'll be able to "get it."

ultimately i made the mistake of judging people based on their typed words. you may very well be the person i am trying to become in my own way. you can take many different paths and still end up at the same place as the rest in the end. away from the computer we all are capable of attaining and achieving the same things in life. some get it early, some later. but rather than look down on these people that arent getting it, i want to try and pick them up because i was just as blind at one time. still am in alot of ways. you definately opened my mind up to a few things and perspectives. this forum definately is the most stimulating on this website. there is a needle in every haystack.

Cuzzo, there is no one here who has ever asked me for help that I have turned down. There have been plenty of people here who hit me on PM or hit me via email or on my line and have asked for help. I help people cause it's in my nature to do so, at the same time, I'm not the door mat that many helpful people are. I've called plenty of people out here, told them to meet me at such and such spot, some took me up on the offer, and some didn't. However, at the end of the day they'll tell you how I am. In my situation, I was chasing other shit when I was younger, and it wasn't until I found something that absolutely required 100% discipline in, that I started to "get it." Like you said, some people get the shit early, some don't but as long as they get something, were succesful at what it is they set out to do, and it didn't make them a liability, I'm with it.

In closing, and in regards to this forum, this is a very unique section of the board. People come, people go, crazy shit is said, crazy shit is read, people get mad, people say things, whatever. IMHO, this forum is like a dysfunctional family--we may hate each other one minute but we fuck with each other the next. It's the nature of the beast fam.

1.

 

[radiostationrep]

@ heresy

you got it together. at some point i shall too. good looking on the knowledge. it's good to know people get what i'm trying to do. you are alreading doing it.