Obama legal team wants to limit defendants' rights.

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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#1
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule a 23 year-old decision that stopped police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, the latest stance that has disappointed civil rights and civil liberties groups.

While President Barack Obama has reversed many policies of his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush, the defendants' rights case is another stark example of the White House seeking to limit rather than expand rights.

Since taking office, Obama has drawn criticism for backing the continued imprisonment of enemy combatants in Afghanistan without trial, invoking the "state secrets" privilege to avoid releasing information in lawsuits and limiting the rights of prisoners to test genetic evidence used to convict them.

The case at issue is Michigan v. Jackson, in which the Supreme Court said in 1986 that police may not initiate questioning of a defendant who has a lawyer or has asked for one unless the attorney is present. The decision applies even to defendants who agree to talk to the authorities without their lawyers.

Anything police learn through such questioning may not be used against the defendant at trial. The opinion was written by Justice John Paul Stevens, the only current justice who was on the court at the time.

The justices could decide as early as Friday whether they want to hear arguments on the issue as they wrestle with an ongoing case from Louisiana that involves police questioning of an indigent defendant that led to a murder confession and a death sentence.

The Justice Department, in a brief signed by Solicitor General Elena Kagan, said the 1986 decision "serves no real purpose" and offers only "meager benefits." The government said defendants who don't wish to talk to police don't have to and that officers must respect that decision. But it said there is no reason a defendant who wants to should not be able to respond to officers' questions.

At the same time, the administration acknowledges that the decision "only occasionally prevents federal prosecutors from obtaining appropriate convictions."

The administration's legal move is a reminder that Obama, who has moved from campaigning to governing, now speaks for federal prosecutors.

The administration's position assumes a level playing field, with equally savvy police and criminal suspects, lawyers on the other side of the case said. But the protection offered by the court in Stevens' 1986 opinion is especially important for vulnerable defendants, including the mentally and developmentally disabled, addicts, juveniles and the poor, the lawyers said.

"Your right to assistance of counsel can be undermined if somebody on the other side who is much more sophisticated than you are comes and talks to you and asks for information," said Sidney Rosdeitcher, a New York lawyer who advises the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University.

Stephen B. Bright, a lawyer who works with poor defendants at the Southern Center for Human Rights in Atlanta, said the administration's position "is disappointing, no question."

Bright said that poor defendants' constitutional right to a lawyer, spelled out by the high court in 1965, has been neglected in recent years. "I would hope that this administration would be doing things to shore up the right to counsel for poor people accused of crimes," said Bright, whose group joined with the Brennan Center and other rights organizations in a court filing opposing the administration's position.

Former Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson and former FBI Director William Sessions are among 19 one-time judges and prosecutors urging the court to leave the decision in place because it has been incorporated into routine police practice and establishes a rule on interrogations that is easy to follow.

Eleven states also are echoing the administration's call to overrule the 1986 case.

Justice Samuel Alito first raised the prospect of overruling the decision at arguments in January over the rights of Jesse Montejo, the Louisiana death row inmate.

Montejo's lawyer, Donald Verrilli, urged the court not to do it. Since then, Verrilli has joined the Justice Department, but played no role in the department's brief.

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/23/2724871-obama-legal-team-wants-to-limit-defendants-rights

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Barack Hussein :dead:
 
Apr 4, 2006
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I already read that the other day....

I'm astounded but not surprised.

Obama is evil as hell... Hes on a psychotic mission of destroying the United States, our Constitution and overall domestic economic policy is being over ruled by this nut job Obama.

The man is epically dangerous..

The only way to describe Obama would be with a Goodfellas quote - "your enemies greet you with a smile"

Chairman Mao used the same tactics and so did Hitler, of course their overall goals are different in a sense but Obama, Mao and Hitler share one major political ideology and thats "government knows best"
 
Apr 4, 2006
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Obama is going to restrict freedom of speech next and blur it a little bit so cops can arrest and charge anyone who opposes him and this story IN FACT will make sure no attorney can save anyones asses.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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I already read that the other day....

I'm astounded but not surprised.

Obama is evil as hell... Hes on a psychotic mission of destroying the United States, our Constitution and overall domestic economic policy is being over ruled by this nut job Obama.

The man is epically dangerous..

The only way to describe Obama would be with a Goodfellas quote - "your enemies greet you with a smile"

Chairman Mao used the same tactics and so did Hitler, of course their overall goals are different in a sense but Obama, Mao and Hitler share one major political ideology and thats "government knows best"

CAN YOU EDUCATE ME ABOUT MAO'S BELIEFS ?
 
Jul 6, 2008
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wtf is wrong with obama? at first its the abeus corpses and now this. is a democrat, or a republican in democrats clothing.

he reminds me of the 3rd anti-christ that nostradamus wrote about. the 3rd anti-christ was all smiles and people followed him cuz he was charismatic, but ended up stabbing the country in their back. there will be alot of blind faith backing the 3rd anti-christ...hint, hint, obama, hint.

this shit he is pulling along with what the deficit will be in 5 yrs scares the hell out of me. the deficit will go from 11 trillion to 17 trillion. 6 trillion in 5 yrs. talk about dollar inflation.

im not sure what to expect from obama. i had somewhat faith that he would lead the people of this country, but im having second thoughts here.
 
Jul 21, 2004
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the dependent.....

you couldn't defend a man if it was saliva in your seat....

make it all the same....we hunger for justice....after all the crap been said or done...in the end ....the population they were going to fix is a bunch fluf....words...

those men who thought they had anything to say .... is going to vacation in the island....we gave them the abilibilty to live what they should have fixed...because we wanted what hey have, but in the end, they were going to give the ones who was cleaning their toilets and washing their clothes....

we think by giving them more vacation time would be to our advantage, but they took it, while they told us we didn't deserve it.... policy put aside.....they said it, but they weren't killing their toilets....

we did give, but not the right people....
 
Jul 21, 2004
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a little hify....

but, obama is doing what government couldn't do is to move on, and begin the engineering of what will make the people happy...not some "i got signatures" but we need to look at our governing organization as governing for the people....it's been while since republican took to the deomocrratice side and wanting giving the money back to the people....in housing, food, and the government body for the people.... it has been swayed by negative beleif of a system originally made to be for the people.... so yes, i have a patient believe to wait and see... before jumping into it should have happen today...angry angry pooh, i don't like...rampage...

i want to wait and see....and think, or hope something good will come out of....before i start bashing a man, who the nation would have laughed....yeah right! an African American a President, no way in hell attitude....!"
 
Jul 21, 2004
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we've gone this far......an impossible....a possible.....

now, you want to take it all way!......after the majority to elect Obama was all European Ancestor...how dare you go straight to shits about!....
 
Dec 2, 2006
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@ merceidez

can you please translate your statement in the english language?

law enforcement officials illegally interrogate suspects on a regular basis soley on suspicion. suspicion alone justifies these actions. this decision will have no effect to what is already going on. i dont see what changes this would bring. your staements are already used against you in court if you choose to give one.

comparing obama to hitler is ludacrious.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#17
@ merceidez

can you please translate your statement in the english language?
Impossible.

law enforcement officials illegally interrogate suspects on a regular basis soley on suspicion.
Agreed, but what about interviews, consensual encounters and in-field investigations?

suspicion alone justifies these actions.
Please clarify for me. What are the "actions" you speak of? Are you saying suspicion alone justifies interrogation?

this decision will have no effect to what is already going on.
Yes it will.

i dont see what changes this would bring.
The changes are outlined in the article.

your staements are already used against you in court if you choose to give one.
Please read the article again.
 
Dec 2, 2006
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Agreed, but what about interviews, consensual encounters and in-field investigations?
the laws regarding initial contact are pretty vague and can be justified by suspicion.

the particular case in question is a murder conviction in which a confession was made admitting guilt that was ultimately used for a conviction. what the writer is saying is the law states that any suspect shouldnt be interrogated regarding a crime, consenting or not, without a lawyer present under the current guidelines. this would now be be allowed under the proposed changes. these particular innterrogations happen daily, and if making a statement admitting guilt in a crime you are being suspected of without a laywer present, will still be used against you in a court of law regardless as in this case.

please clarify for me. What are the "actions" you speak of? Are you saying suspicion alone justifies interrogation?
it does justify interrogation from a legal standpoint. example: suspect x is walking down the street minding his business. a report was made regarding an individual breaking into cars in the area. being an individual in the vicinity justifies suspicion of the crime being committed by suspect x. he is questioned and arrested regarding the break-ins. he was observed being nervous during initial contact which justified further questioning.


the changes are outlined in the article.
they already exist today.


Please read the article again.
i did re-read the article.what this particular writer did was try and associate terrorist suspects overseas and obama's administration with the particular case in reference. pretty good initial smoke screen imo. you got to love the media.
although the law states the evidence cant be introduced at trial, it still is done.
*edit* i dont know how to break up the quotes. can you explain how this is done? thanks in advance.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#19
the laws regarding initial contact are pretty vague and can be justified by suspicion.
We aren't talking about the vagueness of laws as they relate to initial contact or what is justifiable by suspicion. We are talking about questioning, and when and if questioning can be initiated or continued, with or without the presence of counsel. Moreover, and this is highly important, we are dealing with invoking the right to counsel and later revoking the right to counsel (this is what happened in the Montejo case.)

the particular case in question is a murder conviction in which a confession was made admitting guilt that was ultimately used for a conviction. what the writer is saying is the law states that any suspect shouldnt be interrogated regarding a crime, consenting or not, without a lawyer present under the current guidelines.
You've said nothing new about the article, and nothing I said could, or should have, left you with an impression that I didn't understand it. With that being said, there is no need to explain it to me, or explain the law to me, as my degrees and experience in the CJ field take precendent over your interpretations. :knockout:

In regards to interrogation, it is my belief that no suspect should be interrogated regarding a crime without the presence of counsel. If this ruling were reversed, what does it say about our system, due process and the fifth and sixth amendments? Moreover, if this is reversed, is there a chance this can lead to more coerced confessions, more warrants based on such confessions, and questionable evidence derived from both, not supressed, and used in a court of law?

this would now be be allowed under the proposed changes. these particular innterrogations happen daily, and if making a statement admitting guilt in a crime you are being suspected of without a laywer present, will still be used against you in a court of law regardless as in this case.
What particular interrogations happen daily? Ones where a person asks for counsel and the interrogation doesn't stop, or one where the person never asks for counsel?

it does justify interrogation from a legal standpoint. example: suspect x is walking down the street minding his business. a report was made regarding an individual breaking into cars in the area. being an individual in the vicinity justifies suspicion of the crime being committed by suspect x. he is questioned and arrested regarding the break-ins. he was observed being nervous during initial contact which justified further questioning.
No, it does not warrant interrogation from a legal standpoint, and I'll show you why your analogy is wrong and would not hold up in a reasonable court. First off, there is a difference between interrogation and other forms of questioning such as consensual encounters, in-field interviews and in-field investigations. If a crime is commited in an area, and someone is in the vincinity, there is no reasonable right to interrogate the person. However, the officer can intitiate a consesnuual encounter. In addition, simply being in the vicinity of a crime does not justify suspicion as this does not truly fall under probable cause. How does a person being in the area support suspicion and justify interrogation? Also, you jumped out of order in your analogy, and it doesn't hlep your premise (refer to the last two sentences of the above quote.)

they already exist today.
Again, re-read the article.

i did re-read the article.what this particular writer did was try and associate terrorist suspects overseas and obama's administration with the particular case in reference. pretty good initial smoke screen imo. you got to love the media. although the law states the evidence cant be introduced at trial, it still is done.
See above.

*edit* i dont know how to break up the quotes. can you explain how this is done? thanks in advance.
I don't know how others do it, but when I do it I cut & copy the text, paste it here. I then select the text here, press the quote button located next to the youtube button and everything is gravity.

Edit: BTW, radio, are you familiar with the Reid Technique?
 
May 20, 2006
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I'm shocked that none of his devoted followers have replied to this thread.
Haven't had time. Too busy destroying America and implementing the Socialist, Facist, Marxist doctrine that will continue to enslave the poor and malcontents............... Heil, Heil, Heil........ lol..........