First of all let me say that I'm glad you took the time out to get into this discussion... this forum’s been dead for too long!
TY.
Allow me to present my first example of a great product that is the embodiment of affordability without compromise:
http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=11
The Lynx L22 offers ADDA conversion that is far superior to anything Digi offers in their non-HD platforms...
But the posts I quoted have nothing to do with what Digi offers in their non-HD platforms. In fact, in your first post in this thread you made reference to their high end system twice, and if you refer to my previous post, I even suggested that when compared to a Lynx, it may be close but no cigar.
"With a design very similar to that of their Aurora converters, it delivers near Aurora-quality specs and performance in the compact PCI card format..." Yessir the Aurora that many studios prefer over the ADDA of their 192 HD interfaces! In addition, Lynx is known for having some of the best drivers on the planet, enabling (with the right app) low-latency performance at 032 samples, which rivals that of Pro Tools HD... all for only $675!
I'm looking at the specs now, and while the specs may be close, even the card you suggested falls short when compared to the higher end version. In addition, compared to the 003 specs, the pci card is damn near the same when slight differences in head room and frequency response. Now the question is, do you *need* those specs and need that much headroom for optimal levels when recording? And when you refer to low-latency performance that rivals Pro Tools HD, what latency are you refering to exactly?
You can use the Lynx L22 with a wide variety of apps, many of which use an iLock or other dongle to prevent piracy... which exposes Digi's justification for forcing their user base to use only their hardware as slightly misleading to say the least...
How does using the Lynx with any app expose Digi in any way? Do you know anything about the Pro Tools code, how it was written or why they had so much trouble just getting the app to work with the M-Audio devices? The way I see it, they're simply using the hardware as an expensive dongle with bells and whistles.
Jayda has always struck me as a guy that is more than just the casual hobbyist - in the sense that he is actually seeking a professional solution for his recording needs... He has admittingly felt that he wasted money on a recording school and I feel for him... He openingly questioned the quality of Digi's products, which is another sign of a non-hobbyist... and those are the reasons why I'm down to help him out to the point that whatever he decides to spend his 1500 on, he won't regret it later and lose more money in an attempt to upgrade - as many Digidesign products have a very short shelf cycle and depreciate considerably...
I'm not knocking you for helping him out, I've made suggestions to him and many others in the past, and you'll see that my suggestions are solely based on what the user needs/wants and not on my needs/wants. However, to simply assume that digidesign products do not hold up in tests or performance is where I see the problem and this brings me to another point.
Have you done any real world application tests to justify your claims or are your claims solely supported by the experiences and expertise of others? In regards to short shelf life, that is solely dictated by one of two things (or even both): The products reliability/functionality (meaning if it easily breaks down) or the release of a new model with new features.
Most proffessionals who use Pro Tools use HD... If they are using LE or M-Powered it is usually just for editing, mobile recording, or some other reason that is meant to be temporary - until they get back the 'real' studio... PT LE's & M-Powered's lack of ADC, subpar ADDA/clocking of the hardware, limited track counts and other intentional crippling of the software will not allow me to recommend using it in a professional enviroment with a clear conscience...
Again, this all goes back to preference and what one would say is "professional." So what exactly is professional to you? A lynx converter? Ok thats great, now what about a subpar room that lacks concrete, doesn't have floating floors, has dimensions that are multiples of each other, standing waves, etc? The pros you mentioned also have rooms that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions to build, so are you implying that it's all on the gear and one can get by with minimal acoustic treatment? And what about monitoring?
Also, there are PLENTY of "professional" users on the DUC that use LE in a professional environment, and if you want I can post their names here so you can hit the DUC, look up their posts and look at the credits they have under their belts.
So again, what is professional to you? What is a professional environemnt?
Such a conscience is what many in Digidesign seem to be lacking... But hey, it is capatalism and they are the industry standard - so it's natural that such a position is to be exploited for all it's worth... I'm not at all mad, as such an arrogant stance fuels rebellion in the form of superior proucts!
I've mentioned it before, but there was a major label rock band that had an album debut on the billboard 3 slot years ago and they recorded on a digi 001, and the only external piece used was an avalon pre. Yes, Digidesign is a company out to get your money, yes they have a strangle hold on the recording industry, yes they force you to use crippleware, but there are upsides to using the products as well. Their stubborness has forced other companies to step their game up, but that also creates another problem because some of those companies offer cheap alternatives that perform in a cheap manner. When this cheap gear gets in the hands of the someone who may not be technically savy, or understand a lick about proper recording, a whole can of worms is opened.
In short: If one wants to use ProTools in a professional manner, I would suggest buying a used HD system...If one is more concerned with obtaining the best possible sound quality for the same amount of money, I have a variety of other suggestions...
Now here is where we will butt heads and totally disagree. Again, professional is entirely subjective. I would suggest using it if it suits your needs. Nothing more and nothing less. If you need more than 48 stereo tracks and don't want to use stems stay away. Need 5:1 or 7:2? Stay away. Need to sync to video? Stay away. Wanna record a band? Covered. Need to record beats or record a rapper? Covered. Need to mix in the box? Covered (rumors are a new ADC plug is on the way, but I know for a fact vst one exists so use the wrapper). Again, it all depends on what the person is doing and what their needs are.
Now what I would suggest if one had the money to purchase Pro Tools HD,
need to use Pro Tools, and track count weren't an issue, would be to purchase a 002 or 003, get the BLA mods and spend the rest on outboard gear. That will get you a better sound sonically (yes according to specs and many users), the downside is low track count (48), not enough I/O and latency issues (which can be rectified.)
ProTools vs everybody else: whatever side of the spectrum we sit on, we should all be thankful that there is sonically superior competition... because that fuels innovation!
I agree.
Be cool.