Military might versus fossils

  • Wanna Join? New users you can now register lightning fast using your Facebook or Twitter accounts.

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
113
#1
http://scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts/2007/05/military_might_versus_fossils.php

Denver Post is reporting that the US Army wants to use a major fossil site for bombing practice. The Picket Wire Canyonlands, in the Commanche National Grasslands, is included in a series of maps the Army has drawn up for increasing its ordinance ranges.

The landscape of southeast Colorado also crawls with history, but time may be running out on public access to the past as Fort Carson considers acquiring the land for war training.

This secluded valley is home to one of North America's richest dinosaurs finds - more than 1,300 individual tracks; 35 sites have yielded bones.

"The great thing about this site is that it's here to see, and it's free for the public," said U.S. Forest Service paleontologist Bruce Schumacher, leaning against a rock after wading across the Purgatoire River - the River of Lost Souls, as French explorers first called it.

Schumacher planted his bare feet near the beachball-sized tracks of a brontosaurus left 150 million years ago.

"The history here is just layered on itself," he said.

But every map proffered by the Army has included Picket Wire Canyonlands in the Piñon Canyon Maneuver Site.

Karen Edge, Fort Carson's Piñon Canyon outreach coordinator, did not return telephone calls for comment on the future of the Canyonlands.

This is not the first time that the Army has used fossil lands, and even the fossils themselves, as targets for bombing, according to Adrienne Mayor of the Dino-L list. She writes:

Sad sense of deja vu hearing about the situation at Fort Carson, Colorado, where the Army plans to aquire the fossil-rich Picket Wire Canyonlands and use it for "war training" within their Pinyon Canyon Maneuver Site.

Consider what happened to the abundant remains of Titanotheres and other magnificent White River fossils in the South Unit of the Badlands in South Dakota:

Badlands National Monument was established in 1939, outside of the reservation boundary. But in 1976, the Park�s size was doubled by the controversial addition of the Stronghold Unit, (even though it was part of the Pine Ridge Lakota Sioux Reservation, by treaty since 1868). National Park Service literature explains how that happened. During World War II, the US Air Force took over more than 300,000 acres of land from the reservation, land that contains abundant remains of Titanotherium and other large vertebrate fossils. Beginning in 1942 and continuing until 1968, the Stronghold area was used as a huge aerial bombing range by the Air Force. Old wrecked cars were collected and painted bright yellow, then scattered throughout this badlands area as targets for the bombers. The Air Force also used plows to create gigantic bulls-eye targets, 250 feet across, carved into the prairie mesas.

But the favorite bombing targets were the bleached bones of huge, extinct mammals eroding out of the badlands cliffsides. This comes from the official NPS literature distributed at the Park Center about the Stronghold Unit. According to the NPS literature, the skeletons of the largest fossils in the Badlands, the elephant-sized Titanotheres (which Othniel Marsh had named Brontotheres, "thunder beasts") were very noticeable, �gleaming bright white from the air. These skeletons were commonly targeted by the bombers.� The US Air Force and, later, the National Guard gunners, deliberately blew to smithereens the fragile bones of great animals that had roamed the earth 40 million years ago. �Hundreds of fossil resources were destroyed in the bombing efforts,� according to the Park Service information sheet.

Today, the entire Stronghold Unit of the Badlands National Park is littered with dangerous live ammunition, ranging from machine gun bullets to very large unexploded bombs. This ammunition is still on the surface and buried in the dirt and continually erodes out of the cliffs where fossils emerged. Park Service officials warn that �unexploded ordnance (UXO) of all shapes and sizes� poses a grave hazard throughout the Stronghold Unit, and could detonate at any time.

Americans who live in the region, or who merely prize fossils, should protest about this. It takes a lot longer to make a fossil than a war, as one of the Dino-L posters noted.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
113
#2
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5997322

Dinos' might in army sights
By Joey Bunch
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 05/27/2007 09:16:33 AM MDT

La Junta - Last winter's snow has the cactus sprouting brilliant blooms in the Picket Wire Canyonlands as snakes, scorpions and tarantulas scurry for cover on the sun- bleached earth of the Comanche National Grassland.

The landscape of southeast Colorado also crawls with history, but time may be running out on public access to the past as Fort Carson considers acquiring the land for war training.

This secluded valley is home to one of North America's richest dinosaurs finds - more than 1,300 individual tracks; 35 sites have yielded bones.

"The great thing about this site is that it's here to see, and it's free for the public," said U.S. Forest Service paleontologist Bruce Schumacher, leaning against a rock after wading across the Purgatoire River - the River of Lost Souls, as French explorers first called it.

Schumacher planted his bare feet near the beachball-sized tracks of a brontosaurus left 150 million years ago.

"The history here is just layered on itself," he said.

But every map proffered by the Army has included Picket Wire Canyonlands in the Piñon Canyon Maneuver Site.

Karen Edge, Fort Carson's Piñon Canyon outreach coordinator, did not return telephone calls for comment on the future of the Canyonlands.

Colorado's congressional delegation is fighting the expansion because it would uproot families and communities in this historic Old West region.

An older history is here too.

The Canyonlands' rock walls have 1,000 drawings and carvings left by prehistoric hunters and gatherers: Comanche, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Apache and others who lived or hunted here.

"This is one of the last special places in Colorado that hasn't been overrun by tourists," said Jace Ratz laff, an aide to U.S. Rep. Marilyn Musgrave.

Ratzlaff grew up in the fifth generation of ranchers near Las Animas.

Volunteers have looked or bones on only 40 percent of the 16,000-acre Canyonlands. The rest might go unsearched.

"We have no idea what the Army is going to allow," said Forest Service spokeswoman Barb Timock.

The Army ceded the land to the Forest Service in 1990 because of its rich historical value.

One of the richest dinosaur sites was found in May 2004 by John McRaven, a 66-year-old volunteer from Missouri.

He found a fragment of dinosaur bone about the size of his thumb halfway up a grueling ridge, just as he was preparing to call it quits in the area, he recalled last week.

Then he found another piece of bone, then another as he followed a faint trail of shards beyond a gap of boulders until he came upon dinosaur vertebrae jutting from the ground.

The first plunge of his trowel hit a leg bone of a different kind of dinosaur. The find's richness led Schumacher to believe that the area was a sandbar where carcasses washed up.

There is still much to dig and discover throughout the canyon, Schumacher said, noting that it's volunteers like McRaven who will make that possible.

McRaven, a semi-retired college professor, is hopeful the Army considers the educational value. Of his own amazing discovery, he is pragmatic.

"You have to be in the right place at the right time."
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
113
#4
HERESY said:
The american millitary also killed over 650,000 Iraqis, yet your response in another thread was "so what". So are you telling me bones and fragments from some unknown period of time are more important than the living?
No, I am telling you that you do not really care about those 650,00 Iraqis so it is hypocritical to post threads about them

Plus you're not going to change anything with such a thread

There is a slight difference in meaning between "so what" and "who cares"

And yes, bones and fragments from a known peroid of time are much more important than the lives of 650,000 people in a country that's already overpopulated
 
Feb 8, 2006
3,435
6,143
113
#5
ThaG said:
No, I am telling you that you do not really care about those 650,00 Iraqis so it is hypocritical to post threads about them

Plus you're not going to change anything with such a thread

There is a slight difference in meaning between "so what" and "who cares"

And yes, bones and fragments from a known peroid of time are much more important than the lives of 650,000 people in a country that's already overpopulated

Hopefully the US Army uses it for bombing practice. I really do.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#6
No, I am telling you that you do not really care about those 650,00 Iraqis so it is hypocritical to post threads about them
So you know what people care about? If 206 had posted something similar....wait....206 HAS posted a similar thread, so what you're telling me is 206 doesn't care about the people in Iraq? How do you know what people care about? I can see if someone had inconsistant posts and flip-flopped all over the place, but there is no way you can openly state or imply a person is hypocritical for posting that thread.

Plus you're not going to change anything with such a thread
What do you hope to change by making this thread?

There is a slight difference in meaning between "so what" and "who cares"
Please explain this slight difference.

And yes, bones and fragments from a known peroid of time are much more important than the lives of 650,000 people in a country that's already overpopulated
Yet my posts were deleted for questioning this mad scientist/nazi type logic? :confused:
 
Apr 25, 2002
7,348
129
0
42
#8
why is this so important? dead people, fossils.. same shit.. right?.. i just want to know what you're changing with this thread.. seems like we're both mad at the same people.. and instead of sayin' fuck the government.. you say fuck overpopulated iraq(like it's the most overpopulated place).. and then i say fuck you.. and here we are.. fightin' amongst ourselves.. while the military laughs and bombs what both of us are talkin' bout.. oh yeah.. did you hear.. lindsay lohan is back in rehab.:dead: the bigger picture will never be seen.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#9
|GOD|||ZILLA| said:
why is this so important? dead people, fossils.. same shit.. right?.. i just want to know what you're changing with this thread.. seems like we're both mad at the same people.. and instead of sayin' fuck the government.. you say fuck overpopulated iraq(like it's the most overpopulated place).. and then i say fuck you.. and here we are.. fightin' amongst ourselves.. while the military laughs and bombs what both of us are talkin' bout.. oh yeah.. did you hear.. lindsay lohan is back in rehab.:dead: the bigger picture will never be seen.
I agree with this. Good job, Rodan.