Jews Against Zionism

[Stealth]

I'm realitively new to most of the events going on in Israel aside from what you here at the Siccness have informed me on. I'm trying to learn more about the issue, as I feel that I don't know enough yet to really take a side on the topic or make an informed decision. I was looking at this website though, and I thought it would be good to hear from perspectives other than what US News channels have to shove down our throats. I'm just reading these speeches now, but I figured I'd pass them along to anyone else that finds them interesting.

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-against-zionism.html

"I went to Rafah, in the Gaza strip. Its a refugee camp of over 140,000 people pilled in to a village of 300 people. Two thirds of the children there are anemic, and that's not because they don't have enough food but that they are too terrified to eat or process the food that they are getting properly. Over half of them wet their beds, hundreds are shot. You meet children walking around that are so traumatized they cant communicate like normal people any more..."

 

[2-0-Sixx]

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Interesting link you provided Steatlh.

 

[Stealth]

Supporting Nazism

Now Hitler comes to power on January 31 1933, in June of 1933 the Zionist Federation sent a secret document to the Nazis which was not published till 1963:

"...Our acknowledgment of Jewish nationality provides for a clear and sincere relationship to the German people and its national and racial realities. Precisely because we do not wish to falsify these fundamentals, because we, too, are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group..

For its practical aims, Zionism hopes to be able to win the collaboration even of a government fundamentally hostile to Jews, because in dealing with the Jewish question no sentimentalities are involved but a real problem whose solution interests all peoples, and at the present moment especially the German people.

The realisation of Zionism could only be hurt by resentment of Jews abroad against the German development. Boycott propaganda – such as is currently being carried on against Germany in many ways – is in essence UN-Zionist, because Zionism wants not to do battle but to convince and to build ... Our observations, presented herewith, rest on the conviction that, in solving the Jewish problem according to its own lights, the German Government will have full understanding for a candid and clear Jewish posture that harmonizes with the interests of the state..."

Now what I tell people in America is that a lot of fellows who wrote letters like this to Nazis in Europe got hung by the neck until dead after the war. But since these were Jews things went another way.

Collaboration with the Nazis

Now let me tell you how the collaboration actually worked. That [letter] was written in June, by August of 1933 they worked out a deal with the Nazis called Ha’avara (means the transfer). Any German - Jew or Gentile it didn't matter - going out of the country with money in 1933 which is the depth of the depression, got nicked for 40% - in other words you lost 40% of your money - no one is letting money go out of their country in the middle of the depression. What the Zionists and the nazis did was to work out a deal where by if a Jew gave let us say 20,000 marks to the German government, the German government would send 18,000 marks of let us say irrigation pipes to Palestine. The Zionists would then sell them there and give the Jew when he arrived from Germany 17,000 marks. Now that's still a lot better than losing your 40%. The problem was from the Zionist perspective they had a minuscule colony in 1933-39 in other words they were 12% of the population in 33 and about 24% by 1939 - that's still very small. So they began to actually sell German goods all over the middle-east, the even tried to sell them here [in the UK]!

Spying For Hitler

To sum up the official policy of the World Zionist Organization - by 1937 the Haganah which later became the Israeli army sent a man by the name of Polkes to Berlin to negotiate with the Nazis. Now we know this because the nazis being good German bureaucrats wrote down the report and put it in the files and after the war it got discovered by the Americans. And the guy who wrote the report was none other than Eichmann. So he's describing Polkes -

Polkes is a national-Zionist He is against all Jews who are opposed to the erection of a Jewish state in Palestine. As a Haganah man he fights against Communism and all aims of Arab-British friendship ... He noted that the Haganah’s goal is to reach, as soon as possible, a Jewish majority in Palestine. Therefore he worked, as this objective required, with or against the British Intelligence Service, the Sureté Generale, with England and Italy

... He declared himself willing to work for Germany in the form of providing intelligence as long as this does not oppose his own political goals. Among other things he would support German foreign policy in the Near East. He would try to find oil sources for the German Reich without affecting British spheres of interest if the German monetary regulations were eased for Jewish emigrants to Palestine.

So he goes to Berlin and he invites Eichmann to come to Palestine, which Eichmann does. The British however realised that there is something wrong with this guy [Eichmann] who claims to be a corespondent and kicked him out [of Palestine] and he went to Cairo where he met Polkes again. Then again we have Eichmann's report of what Polkes told him:

In Jewish national circles people are very please with the radical German policies since the strengthens Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that in the foreseeable future the Jews could be reckoned upon numerical superiority over the Palestinians.

The the upshot of this was that after W.W.II Eichmann as we all know was in hiding in Argentina before the Israelis caught him, but what most people don't know is that he was actually interviewed in Argentina by a Dutch nazi journalist and when he [Eichmann] was caught he [journalist] took the tapes to Life magazine which at that time was the leading magazine in the United States with a circulation of about 5 million a month. And they ran the tapes of Eichmann. In the tapes we find this:

In 1937 when I had been struggling with Hebrew for two and a half years I has a chance to take a trip to Palestine. We were most interested in the Palestine immigration and I wanted to find out at what point the Jewish State in Palestine might be set up. Unfortunately Palestine was then in turmoil and the British turned down by application. I did see enough to be very impressed with what the Jewish colonists were building up their land. I admired their desperate will to live, the more so since I myself was an idealist. In the years that followed I often said to Jews whom I had dealing with that had I been a Jew I would have been a fanatical Zionist - I could not imagine being anything else, in fact I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable.

In America we have celebrity endorsements - what I just read to you is the ultimate celebrity endorsement!

Its surprising what kind of information is available if you just get off your ass and look for it.




My question is...when did Palestine become Palestine? What happened to Israel between the periods of Jesus' death and 1933? How did it become so Arabic, with only 14% Jews? If the Jews were there first, how did they lose the territory in the first place?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

My question is...when did Palestine become Palestine? What happened to Israel between the periods of Jesus' death and 1933? How did it become so Arabic, with only 14% Jews? If the Jews were there first, how did they lose the territory in the first place?

I really don't give a fuck about what happened around the time of a mythical persons death, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#History has some good info on palestines history. I'm really only concerned with around WWI to present.

 

[Stealth]

Its just my understanding was that Israel was at one point completely Jewish. By 1933 it was almost completely Muslim. I'd like to know what changed that.

P.S. Mythical means he didn't exist. Despite whether or not you believe J-Dogg is the son of God, you still have to admit that he had a powerful influence on the Jewish people and the world.

Thanks for the link

 

[Stealth]

Okay so the Phoenicians first settled in Palestine (Palestinians, Philistines) and then the Hebrews settled afterwards. During the first Jewish-Roman War several hundred years later, the Romans exiled most of the Jews from Palestine/Judea renaming it Syria Palestine. The Byzantines (East Romans) then controlled this land until the 600's when Persia periodically took it, and then in the mid 600's it was permanently under Arab rule. It was then renamed the Kingdom of Jerusalem during the Crusades in the 1000's by the Christians. In 1187, the Arab known as Saladin (I read a lot about him, u guys should check it out) retook Jerusalem re-establishing Muslim control.

It was incorporated into the Ottoman empire by the Turks during 1516.

The Ottoman Sultan discouraged all large-scale immigration to Palestine, replying to a request by Rabbi Joseph Nantonek for permission to settle Jews in 1876 that "almost all lands in Palestine were occupied, and that the autonomy sought by Nantonek was incompatible with the administrative principles of the state" and decrees against mass settlement were issued by the Ottoman government in 1884, 1887 and 1888.[4] Significant numbers of Jews began making Aliyah to the Holy Land in 1882[5] to build collective farms and eventually established the new city of Tel Aviv in 1909.[6] However, during 1891-1900 the total number of Jews in Palestine was never more than 60,000 people out of a total population of 500,000, which demonstrated that "the Ottoman policy of allowing individuals to immigrate and to settle, but prohibiting large groups from doing the same, was successful".[7] When Ottoman control came to an end, following World War I, the number of Jews in Palestine had declined to 55,000.[8]

Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, it was envisioned that most of Palestine, when freed by Ottoman control, would become an international zone not under direct French or British colonial control. Shortly thereafter, British foreign minister Arthur Balfour issued the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which laid plans for a Jewish homeland to be established in Palestine eventually.

The British-led Egyptian Expeditionary Force, commanded by Edmund Allenby, captured Jerusalem on 9 December, 1917 and occupied the whole of the Levant following the defeat of Turkish forces in Palestine at the Battle of Megiddo in September 1918.[9]

In April 1920 the Allied Supreme Council (the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan) met at Sanremo and formal decisions were taken on the allocation of mandate territories. The United Kingdom accepted a mandate for Palestine, but the boundaries of the mandate and the conditions under which it was to be held were not decided. The Zionist Organization's representative at Sanremo, Chaim Weizmann, subsequently reported to his colleagues in London:

The award of the mandates was delayed as a result of the United States' suspicions regarding Britain's colonial ambitions and similar reservations held by Italy about France's intentions. France in turn refused to reach a settlement over Palestine until its own mandate in Syria became final. According to Louis,

Together with the American protests against the issuance of mandates these triangular quarrels between the Italians, French, and British explain why the A mandates did not come into force until nearly four years after the signing of the Peace Treaty.... The British documents clearly reveal that Balfour's patient and skilful diplomacy contributed greatly to the final issuance of the A mandates for Syria and Palestine on September 29, 1923.[13]

In the years following World War II, Britain's position in Palestine gradually worsened. This was caused by a combination of factors, including:

The situation in Palestine itself rapidly deteriorated, due to the incessant attacks by Irgun and Lehi on British officials, armed forces, and strategic installations. This caused severe damage to British morale and prestige, as well as increasing opposition to the mandate in Britain itself, public opinion demanding to "bring the boys home".[16]
World public opinion turned against Britain as a result of the British policy of preventing the Jewish Holocaust survivors from reaching Palestine, sending them instead to refugee camps in Cyprus, or even back to Germany, as in the case of Exodus 1947.
The costs of maintaining an army of over 100,000 men in Palestine weighed heavily on a British economy suffering from post-war depression, and was another cause for British public opinion to demand an end to the Mandate.

Thanks for the article again 2-0-Sixx

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Its just my understanding was that Israel was at one point completely Jewish. By 1933 it was almost completely Muslim. I'd like to know what changed that.

P.S. Mythical means he didn't exist. Despite whether or not you believe J-Dogg is the son of God, you still have to admit that he had a powerful influence on the Jewish people and the world.

Thanks for the link

Maybe in the year 100 it had a jewish majority, but according to wikipedia during the years 132–135, the Roman emperor Hadrian expelled most Jews from the region.

keep in mind I am by no means an expect on ancient palestine/israel.

FYI, I don't believe J-Dogg ever existed.
(http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm)

 

[JLMACN]

this war is going on what....

2-3 thousand years??

maybe longer?

5000

 

[Stealth]

Yeah I'm pretty sure after reading all of that, that the Jews really never had much of a "claim" to Palestine/Israel.

FYI, I don't believe J-Dogg ever existed.
(http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm)

To each his own. I'll check out those links sometime, but despite whether or not he was the son of God, I'm pretty founded in the belief that Jesus, or someone like Jesus, did exist. He might have been some schizophrenic who just got out of the looney bin and decided to preach the word of God and somehow got tons of followers, and maybe he didn't do any real miracles, but I have a hard time believing that an entire religion lasted two thousand years without the guy at least bein real. But that's my opinion backed by no facts. I'll check ur links when I get a chance.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

^^no worries. There is just a huge gap in the timeline without any historical reference to hey-zues. Unless some new info is discovered, there is just not enough evidence that suggest there was indeed a man named jebus.

 

[Stealth]

After reading those articles, I can see where you are coming from. Keep in mind that anybody who supported Jesus during these times were usually persecuted for having beliefs against Judeism. That might explain why there wasn't any information/historical references.

The points brought up are intriguiging, none-the-less, but they seem more like "conspiracy theory" and are no more factual than people's theories on why Jesus does exist. They say that burdon of proof is on those who say that Jesus is alive, but I disagree (I think the burdon of proof is on those who want to give the truth).

If there's one thing I can agree with, it is that between the time of Jesus' death and now, the Catholic Church (which I am a part of) did a lot of things for their own personal motives rather than for the good of the Church or the good of the people. I believe the truth was altered and changed many, many times. I also believe that the Bible was written by men, and is therefore fallible.

But I'd like to think that behind the churches hidden agenda, once you strip everything away, that a man did exist that promoted peace and harmony. And even if he didnt, I still agree with his message.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

After reading those articles, I can see where you are coming from. Keep in mind that anybody who supported Jesus during these times were usually persecuted for having beliefs against Judeism. That might explain why there wasn't any information/historical references.

Even if that were the case, there's no historical reference of him from any other sources (such as roman records). Everything is hearsay, well after his death, which of course cannot be considered absolute truth. And plus the writings of the early christians that have been found, did not quote jebus at all and don't even make any references to him. (like Paul for example who in all of the 13 epistles doesn't make one reference to an earthly jebus.).

The points brought up are intriguiging, none-the-less, but they seem more like "conspiracy theory"

I don't understand really how it's based on conspiracy theory. All the arguments I've read are based on rational thinking (i.e. you cannot accept hearsay as absolute truth, etc.). It's pretty easy to understand how great stories/folk tales are passed down and believed by listeners as truths and re-told as truths for generation after generation, it's very likely that is the case with Jebus and those listeners truly believed. No need for a grand conspiracy (although as in the case of the Catholic Church, it's understandable if a select few uncovered some damaging info regarding their savior and withheld/destroyed that info, because after all, that info could mean there demise).

and are no more factual than people's theories on why Jesus does exist. They say that burdon of proof is on those who say that Jesus is alive, but I disagree (I think the burdon of proof is on those who want to give the truth).

I respectively disagree with your disagreement. lol. If one is to make a claim that something (whether it a person, place, god, whatever-the-fuck) exists, the burden of proof is on that person making the claim. If I told you a man named Dr. Igor Killinemoffski was the absolute ruler of Russia during 1776-1845, you would probably ask for some kind of proof, and rightfully so. And if I only provided you with references to him from 1945, you might be skeptical.

If there's one thing I can agree with, it is that between the time of Jesus' death and now, the Catholic Church (which I am a part of) did a lot of things for their own personal motives rather than for the good of the Church or the good of the people. I believe the truth was altered and changed many, many times. I also believe that the Bible was written by men, and is therefore fallible.

Question for you comrade (and please don’t take this in the wrong way), if you’re fully aware of all of the lies/crimes the Catholic Church is responsible for, how can you willingly be a member?

FYI, I really don’t care what religion (or lack thereof) a man is a part of, just curious.

Honestly, as far as the ‘did jebus exist’ debate goes, it also isn’t something I’m really interested in. It’s completely irrelevant in my mind. But if I was raised Christian I’m sure it’s a topic I might want to investigate.

But I'd like to think that behind the churches hidden agenda, once you strip everything away, that a man did exist that promoted peace and harmony.

I too would like to think a lot of things comrade, but sometimes lack of evidence, logic, reasoning and good old fashioned objectiveness can get in the way.

And even if he didnt, I still agree with his message

See, this is what I’m not so certain about. What exactly was his message? That all non-believers will burn in a lake of fire? "He who believes and who is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." - Jesus (Mark 16:16). "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." -Jesus (John 15:6). Not exactly the kind of message I would ever agree with. Reminds me to much of our Lord and Sav...I mean our commander & chief, George dubya’s ‘you’re either with us or against us” mentality. But like you said, to each is own.

 

[JLMACN]

Jesus didnt have 1 message...
he had so many messages he started to disagree with messages that he had try to give before hand. Or just started repeating himself over and over again...

I think Jesus existed as a man. Should I worship him? NOPE!

Did he have good messages? YES!
Did he have bad messages? YES!

much like ur typical SUNDAY school teacher....or Priest. And what do we say when they "foul up", THEY ARE NOT PERFECT!

nor was Jesus!



5000

 

[2-0-Sixx]

^^yeah I agree that there are good messages as well.

But shit, we're getting hella off topic (my bad stealth).

 

[Stealth]

Question for you comrade (and please don’t take this in the wrong way), if you’re fully aware of all of the lies/crimes the Catholic Church is responsible for, how can you willingly be a member?

I guess because I've received the sacrements and the teachings and whatnot, I consider myself a member of the Catholic Church, but in all honesty it doesnt really matter. Unfortunately for the large cross tattooed on my back, it will be reflected in me despite my beliefs.

My take on religion, as I've investigated things more closely, is that Islamics, Jews, and Christians all have the same "one message" that I was alluding to earlier: be a good person, believe in a higher power, hope for an afterlife. I don't think it really matters what religion I say that I have, because I don't think a Jew or a Shiite is any more incorrect than I am. I believe in the power of religion. I believe, whether it be by creation or evolution, life started somewhere, planets started somewhere, and life ends. I do not know what happens after life ends, but I put my faith that whoever/whatever created life may possibly have a plan for me once it ends.

So yes, I am a Catholic, but I did attend a non-denominational Christian church for a few years. The reason I haven't changed my religion or say that I am no longer Catholic is because its just a label, and I dont really care how people label me. I abandoned many Catholic traditions years ago, such as confession and church, but I still hold true that there is a God or creator of some sort.

I guess, as holds true for any organization, that once you are a member for long enough, you grow to respect it. I may not have the same beliefs as the lady sitting in front of me in church, however I respect the fact that she believes in something and that she has hope, so as I often say, to each their own. I'd hardly bring down someone for having an incorrect religion, as most people are incapable of enlightenment. The thing I dont like about religion is that it causes people to be controlled, however, this is more of an unfortunate consequence of religion than an actual element. Religion in itself, to me, is a good thing.

As for going off topic...there's no reason to try to control the flow of conversation haha.

I'll get back to all the other points later maybe, but Im home now and I gotta life to live!!

(As for the "quotes" from Jesus that you picked from the Bible, once again, you have to remember that I understand the Bible was manipulated by those who wished to control the people. That fear of God is exactly the thing that was intended by them. I just believe moreso in the message of being a good person than the message verbatim. We can agree verbatim doesn't exist.)

 

[jose g.r.]

peep game

http://blackcults.blogspot.com/2004/08/who-are-black-isrealites.html

 

[JLMACN]

^^^yea i seen them dudes in TIMES SQUARE going wild..

I hate it though..cause they are some RACIST mothafuckas...to the T.
They were callin white people all kinds of shit...
right in the fucking MIDDLE OF TIMES SQUARE..in New York.

shit was wild.

5000

 

[HERESY]

^^^ I don't know if anyone remembers this, but I made threads/posts about them when I got back from new york a couple fo years ago. OFF THE CHAINS. What I enjoyed about these guys is that they spare NO ONE. They were coming down HARD on black women when I saw them, and I couldn't help but crack up when it was going on. They chopped game with me, we shared some ideas, and they were really respectful to me, but women that were walking down the street? Nah...they were getting murdered left and right.

 

[jose g.r.]

^
the ones i've met on the westcoast never did that to the women, in my experiences. i've been down with them before, they gotta lotta knowledge. they're hilarious to watch on halloween.