Jail US citizens indefinitely, without charges or hearing

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Apr 25, 2002
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Bush claims right to jail US citizens indefinitely, without charges or hearing

By Bill Vann
24 June 2002

In a legal argument that could as easily be used to justify a declaration of martial law, the Justice Department last week asserted the right of the president and the military to indefinitely hold US citizens deemed “enemy combatants” incommunicado, without formal charges, the right to a hearing or legal counsel.

This assertion of extra-constitutional powers came in a protracted legal tug-of-war over Yaser Esam Hamdi, a 21-year-old detainee who was captured in Afghanistan and brought to the US detention camp at the Guantanamo Bay naval base in Cuba. Earlier this year, after it was discovered that he was born in Louisiana and in all likelihood is entitled to US citizenship, he was transferred to a Navy brig in Virginia.

The Bush administration has waged a ferocious battle to block any judicial hearing to determine Hamdi’s status and any contact between the detainee and public defenders seeking to represent him.

While a lower court ruled that he had the right to consult with a lawyer, the Justice Department filed an appeal barring any meeting. After blocking Federal Public Defender Frank W. Dunham Jr. from seeing Hamdi, it argued in court that the attorney had no standing in the case because he “has no relationship” with the detainee.

The 46-page government brief affirms that “the military has the authority to capture and detain individuals whom it has determined are enemy combatants in connection with hostilities in which the Nation is engaged, including enemy combatants claiming American citizenship. Such combatants, moreover, have no right of access to counsel to challenge their detention.”

It goes on to assert that it makes no difference whether the alleged combatants are captured overseas or in the United States.

In a derisive attack on the US District Court Judge who ordered the military to allow Hamdi to meet with an attorney, the Justice Department insisted that once deemed an enemy combatant, an individual has no rights, and that the courts have no business questioning the decisions of the military.

“A court’s inquiry should come to an end once the military has shown ... that it has determined that the detainee is an enemy combatant,” the brief states. “[T]he court may not second-guess the military’s enemy-combatant determination.”

For the courts to question in any way an order by the military or the president to grab someone off the street and lock him up for life as an “enemy,” the Justice Department argued, would constitute interference in “an area in which they have no competence, much less institutional expertise,” and would “intrude upon the constitutional prerogative of the Commander in Chief.”

The brief goes on to warn ominously against creating “a conflict of military and judicial opinion highly comforting to the enemies of the United States.”

The legal arguments for such sweeping police-state powers are unprecedented, as are the actions that have already been taken by the Bush administration in holding individuals prisoners of the military without hearings or trial.

In addition to Hamdi, the government has announced plans to continue holding Jose Padilla, the Brooklyn-born US citizen who was grabbed by FBI agents last month as he deplaned from an international flight to Chicago. Padilla likewise is being held in a military brig without charges or a hearing, and the government has refused to allow his attorney to see him. Justice Department officials admit that they lack sufficient evidence to indict Padilla on allegations that he was part of a plot to detonate a radioactive “dirty bomb.”

In its brief in the Hamdi case, the government leaned heavily on a 1942 Supreme Court decision allowing a military trial of German saboteurs arrested in the US. That decision, however, affirmed the defendants’ right to appeal their status in federal court, a right the Bush administration is abrogating. Nor did the high court then allow for indefinite detention and denial of counsel.

In the Hamdi and Padilla cases—as with those of the hundreds of immigrants who have been rounded up without charges or hearings—the government has invoked “the war effort” to justify its riding roughshod over constitutional rights.

There has been no congressional declaration of war, of course, and Bush and other administration officials have asserted that their “war on terrorism” could last for decades. This raises the specter of a permanent suspension of such core constitutional guarantees as freedom from “unreasonable searches and seizures,” and the right to due process, a jury trial and legal counsel.

The Justice Department’s position likewise upends the fundamental principle of civilian control of the military, placing unprecedented power over American citizens in the hands of generals who are unelected and answerable to no one.

It should be recalled that the “dirty wars” of torture, massacres and “disappearances” carried out by US-backed military dictatorships throughout Latin America over the course of more than two decades beginning in the 1960s were all waged in the name of a “war on terrorism.”

The right of the military to detain individuals indefinitely without charges or hearings now asserted by the Bush administration in the US was upheld by the courts in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile and other countries, resulting in the torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of workers, intellectuals and youth deemed enemies of the military regimes.

Responding to the government’s arguments, the lawyers seeking to represent Hamdi pointed to this threat.

“The Executive Branch of the Government does not have the authority to detain an American citizen incommunicado and to unilaterally withdraw from the courts the power to inquire into the propriety of his detention,” wrote Assistant Federal Public Defender Robert J. Wagner in his brief to the court.

He added, “A contrary conclusion would eliminate any limitation upon [the government’s] power to indefinitely detain any American citizen, under a state of war or peace, as long as the military determines that the detainee is an enemy.”

Quoting the government’s argument that the courts have no business questioning the military’s designation of a detained US citizen as an “enemy combatant,” the Washington Post editorialized: “These words were not written by some petty dictator whose kangaroo courts rubber-stamp his every whim and whose whims may include locking up citizens he regards as enemies. They were filed yesterday by the U.S. Department of Justice ...”

The editorial, entitled “The I-said-so test,” goes on to warn: “If this is correct, any American could be locked up indefinitely, without a lawyer, on the president’s say-so. You don’t have to believe that Mr. Hamdi is innocent to see grave peril in this.”

What the Washington Post and others within the political establishment who have voiced muted protests over the Bush administration’s assumption of dictatorial powers deliberately obscure, however, is the connection between this “grave peril” to democratic rights at home and the eruption of US militarism abroad.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), for example, issued a condemnation of the military detention of Jose Padilla, criticizing it from the standpoint of weakening the “war on terrorism.”

“For the United States to maintain its moral authority in the fight against terrorism,” declared Anthony D. Romero, ACLU executive director, “its actions must be implemented in accordance with core American legal and social values.”

In reality, the “moral authority” of the Bush administration’s military campaigns is entirely consistent with its adoption of forms of police-state rule. Both are the expression of an increasingly desperate and disoriented ruling elite that has determined to defend its wealth and interests by means of naked force.
 
May 5, 2002
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Knowing how stupid Bush is he probobly never even heard of a writ of habeas corpus....

Well hey, we got what the voters wanted, someone we can relate to, not someone who knows more then us (gore). man people in our country are dumb...
 
May 5, 2002
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Well, loosly speaking LOL....

I'm just mocking all the people throughout the election who complained gore was a bore so they voted for bush who they thought related to em more.
 
May 12, 2002
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I am not 100% informed on this matter but probably know more than a lot of folks. We capture a soldier that is fighting against the US on foriegn soil. He chose to fight with a foreign country and support a terroristic regiem. All of the other Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters are being treated the same way as him. He doesnt deserve any better treatment because of where he was born. If you look at the treatment that they gave our downed US Pilot who ejected and was captured, you will see where their hearts are at, a bullet to the head were his rights.

Its amazing in todays age that people rally around technacallities and loopholes, and lawyers to find any way to promote some left wing cause. Who really wants some Taliban fighter walking the streets ? I dont give a damn if he was born in the White House, they should be lucky they are alive.
 
May 5, 2002
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I don't have a problem with what they are doing with that fuck that joined the taliban, thats not the issue, the issue is what they are doing with the so called "dirty bomb" guy who may have planned out to make a bomb (didn't actually do anything tho) but has been held for over a month.

Now I don't know wether or not you are familiar with the "6th amendment" (no its not something made up by the left wing, its in our constitution) but in there, its stated that you have THE RIGHT TO BE INFORMED OF THE NARTURE AND CAUSE OF THE ACCUSATION AGAINST YOU (WITHIN 2 DAYS), now its been over a month, and he is yet to be charged, and is still being helled.

Theres another lil thing we have called a "writ of habeas corpus" and it states that congress cannot deny a writ of habeas corpus, which is a court order directed to an officer holding a prisoner commanding that the prisonor be brought before the court and that the officer show cause (explain with good reason why the prisoner should not be released)

now where exactly does this so called left wing cause fall in? looks like straight law out of our constitution to me.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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But when do they start moving the line? Start protesting the government; boom you're in jail. Pass out fliers; boom you're in jail. Make a rap song that says fuck the police; boom you're in jail.

They can twist anyone and anything to fit this "terrorist" label if you buy into it.

As for lil Johnny Walker, he'll get off, if his case ever makes it that far.
 
May 12, 2002
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#8
Its a different war that we are fighting now then in the past. Our worst enemies will be the ones right here in the states. Even with the dirty bomber, you can lump him in there with the rest of them. His ties to terrorist are strong, so he should also get the same treatment. These people throw their rights away. Now there is the kid from Australia who was captured, and his parents want him to be able to get a lawyer. This is crazy, these people decided on their own to follow the Taliban/Al Qaeda and carry out murder and fight a war against the US and allied forces, and before that they destroyed their own country, and now they want to be treated with rights ? I dont buy it. These are the same people that killed men women and children for petty reasons.

This is not a war were you capture your enemy and round them up with their hands on their heads and take them back to camp. In this war, we are going to have to be extra vigilent in our own country. I am fully aware of our rights in the US, I just dont think they fall into that. They have no rights except for those in the Geneva convention. If you had an Ak-47 in Kashmir or some plan to blow up buildings, and you are in the US it doesnt make a difference to me, you are still warring against this country and should be treated as a prisoner of war.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Like the article says:

“The Executive Branch of the Government does not have the authority to detain an American citizen incommunicado and to unilaterally withdraw from the courts the power to inquire into the propriety of his detention,” wrote Assistant Federal Public Defender Robert J. Wagner in his brief to the court.

He added, “A contrary conclusion would eliminate any limitation upon [the government’s] power to indefinitely detain any American citizen, under a state of war or peace, as long as the military determines that the detainee is an enemy.”

“If this is correct, any American could be locked up indefinitely, without a lawyer, on the president’s say-so. You don’t have to believe that Mr. Hamdi is innocent to see grave peril in this.”


Even if they were condisdered to be prisoners of war, which the people mentioned in this article are not, the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples is still prohibited.


I bet you don't support U.S. soldiers being tried for war crimes either do you?
 
May 5, 2002
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See, this is why the bush administration came up with the whole "WAR on terror" when in all actuallity, THIS IS NOT A WAR. This is a matter of protecting our national security, and last time I checked, we've been doing this since the birth of this nation. By calling it a war, he can just swing his power all around and use "war" as an excuse to do whatever the hell he feels like. You say "its a different type of war" thats because it isn't a war, its simply protecting our national security. did congress officially declare war on anyone? no they didn't. Bush is just trying to slip by all these laws our country made to prevent the president from abusing his powers....
 
May 12, 2002
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I could clear up my views easiest this way. I could careless if they are US citizens or not. Their intentions were clear. As far as I am concerned they should just execute all of the detainees at Getmo. The others are bordering on treason, give them a trial and then execute them also. Its time we take the gloves off, every other country that is a power in the world would have killed them after they got as much info out of them that they could.

As for this being a war, it is. They can not fight us toe to toe so they have to use terror and guerilla warfare to strike the US and our allies. We might not have declared war, but war has been declared against us.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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The whole time this so called "war" has been going on the gov., Bush especially, has been pushing it as a “moral war”. With the, we are better than them, we are civilized, they are backward, they are evil, etc, rhetoric.

If this is going to hold any water the U.S. needs to abide by the laws of civilized people and not treat captured individuals as animals, regardless of whatever they think they might have done.

So far, the U.S. has been doing the opposite and using terrorism and bending international and national laws to the near or even passed the breaking point. What you are suggesting BigE916WRM, is not the act of civilized people in the right. It is the same kind of talk you would expect from the "uncivilized, backward, evil" people that this “war” is being fought against. Shame on you for lowering yourself to the level of a terrorist and for supporting a government that is doing the same.
 
May 12, 2002
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Shame on me, fine. But I will support "our" country. I will not second guess our war on terror. I think we are doing the right things. Sacrifice has to be made to prevent acts like 9-11 from happening in the future. You want these terrorist to have all of these rights but condemn your own country for trying to protect you and me from terrorist. I dont care if they frame the guy, if they know he is about to, or conspiring to commit acts of terror against the US lock him up, throw away the key.

Also I dont think any of the detainees are being treated as animals. They probably have it a lot better off now then they did before.

All of the detainees should be happy that they are over here, look at how the Russians and Israels deal with terrorist. IF you want to rally around a worthy cause thats fine, there are planty of inmates who are locked down that are innocent. As we have seen this week, there are people on Death Row that should not be there. I just dont think any of these terrorist that would love to see you or me or our friends and families killed are a worthy cause.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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BigE916WRM said:
IF you want to rally around a worthy cause thats fine, there are planty of inmates who are locked down that are innocent. As we have seen this week, there are people on Death Row that should not be there.

That’s the point though; with this dictatorial flex Bush doesn't need proof to put people away it just happens. Right now it's suspected "terrorists", but there is nothing to stop that from spreading to other people. Plus if you look at the Bush doctrine every country or group that doesn't jump on board with the U.S. is being called terrorist regardless of truth.

People that speak out against abuse of power like this get branded terrorist sympathizers and could soon be tossed in jail for speaking out.

Soon people posting messages on here will have the FBI knockin at their door and be taken away to an undisclosed location for an indefinite period of time with no legal rights granted. That’s where things are headed and it needs to be prevented.

That’s where the problem is.

If they have proof of terrorist activities then they would show it and put these people away. They are doing this because they have no proof. Show me proof and i'll be there to watch em get put away with a smile on my face. Lock up innocent peoples with no proof and no legal process i'm not gunna sit by and not say anything.

They ARE putting innocent people in jail and doing so without proof. If they were guilty or had evidence they would be charged.