Is the CIA preparing another coup?

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Apr 25, 2002
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Ok this first part of the post is to provide some history of U.S. intervention (open and covert) in the region so that you can make your own decisions on what you think is going on. I don't expect all of you to read all of this, but for some of you it should be really interesting.


Oh yea this first part of the post i wrote.


Emerging U.S. Policy in Latin America

In the late 1890’s the U.S. stepped on stage in the world of global political interests. During this time European colonial countries were busy dividing Africa and Asia among themselves abandoning Latin America as their time there had run out. The U.S. took a mixed view of colonialism as it developed the foundations of U.S. Foreign policy. The U.S. maintained to have made a decidedly anti-colonial stance against the European powers “claiming” a desire for an open door for foreign trade favoring competition not colonially divided territories. During this time the over production of the U.S. economy forced the U.S. to take a new look at the expanding markets in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. At the same time the U.S. desired to project its self as a world power and actively worked to develop a strong naval/army presence around the world as a way to show off the strength and might of the U.S. and promote itself as a “counter weight” to European colonizers. Then came the Spanish American War of 1898 when the U.S. took over the Philipines, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii. Two of which remain under US control to this day. This not only gave the U.S. new economic outlets for goods and provided new sources of raw materials, but it provided several new platforms for U.S. military control. In the case of Cuba and Puerto Rico these countries provided for a stronger hold on U.S. Latin American interests. Seen as “our backyard” the U.S. put the word out for all other countries to stay out of “our” hemisphere. And so begain the very active history of U.S. involvement in Latin America. From 1898 – 1932 alone, the United States intervened 34 separate times in Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean in 10 separate countries. Often characterized as “only for a short time” examples prove the opposite, that they were extensive and repeated interventions. U.S. troops were present in Haiti from 1915-1934, The Dominican Republic from 1916 – 1924, and Nicaragua from 1912 – 1925 and again from 1926 – 1933, just to name a few examples.

Moral Intervention and Dirty Wars the History Behind Possible US Intervention in Venezuelan Coup

There are several countries that serve as excellent examples of U.S. intervention in Latin America that have striking similarities to the situation in Venezuela. Most importantly found in all of these examples is the new threat envisioned by the United States after World War II of the global threat of Communism. In many of these cases the governments were left-leaning or even socialist and at times had communists as members of the government. In the eyes of U.S. policy makers this justified a Moral Intervention to save these countries from going Communist and protecting the interests of the United States within the hemisphere.

Guatemala

In the 1950’s a new democratically elected leftist government of Jacobo Arbenz emerged in Guatemala. One of the major platforms of this new government was a policy of agricultural reform where a study of all the country’s large land holdings would be assessed. If the government found that less than one third of the land was being cultivated the other two thirds of the land would be confiscated WITH compensation. The major problem with this in the eyes of the large landholders (especially the U.S. corporation United Fruit which during this time had 3 million acres of land, 2,000 railway miles, and 1,000 ships in Central America alone) was that these lands would be paid for at their declared tax value. Meaning whatever the landowners claimed the land was worth on their taxes would be how much they would be paid for the land. Obviously these landowners were under declaring the value of their land and were both furious and scared. The relationship between the Eisenhower administration and United Fruit were “downright cozy”. CIA Director Allen Dulles was former President of United Fruit (and former director of the Schroder Bank, which the CIA used to launder its funds for covert operations.) and his brother Attorney General John Foster Dulles formerly handled the deal between IRCA (International Railways of Central America) to United Fruit, Assistant Secretary for Inter-American Affairs John Moors Cabot’s family owned interests in United Fruit, and Eisenhower’s personal secretary was also the wife of the company’s public relations director. Calls quickly broke out for the Eisenhower administration to intervene militarily against the “Communists” in Guatemala which so eagerly wanted to “steal their land” and redistribute it to the local population to put it to use, though it should be noted that the reforms of the Arbenz government were no more communist than the Alliance for Progress reforms in the 1960’s pushed by none other than the United States. The CIA soon began to openly circulate through Guatemala “creating a climate of tension and uncertainty to prompt divisions in the armed forces, weaken Arbenz’s resolve, and, hopefully, provoke a coup d’etat.” In a speech to Congress Eisenhower “warned that “the Reds” were already in control of Guatemala and now sought to spread their “tentacles” to El Salvador and other neighbors.” A CIA sponsored coup was put into action in 1954 with planes flown and provided by the United States. This coup against a democratically elected government was not viewed as something bad, all one needs to do is pick up a copy of president Eisenhower’s memoirs. The Guatemalan coup was a success for the newly formed CIA and helped to form many views regarding intervention in Latin America. This pattern follows through history of U.S. intervention in the region both open and covert. Other more brief examples include The Dominican Republic and Chile.

The Dominican Republic: Open Intervention

In December of 1962 Juan Bosch a reform minded president was elected with 60% of the vote in The Dominican Republic replacing an authoritarian dictatorship. Seen as a time of hope for the average citizen the hard core right in the Dominican Republic initiated a coup only 10 months after the elections. The Army coup failed to build a significant social base and the country erupted into civil war. The rebels, unlike the traditional view of the Latin American rebel, were not Communist but rather constitutionalists committed to upholding democracy in the country. President Lyndon Johnson saw this as a Communist plot to destabilize the region and sent in 23,000 U.S. troops after uncovering a “conspiracy” and to “evacuate American students”. President Bosch later commented that the world had seen a “democratic revolution smashed by the most democratic country”.

Chile: Covert Intervention

In 1970 in Chile Salvador Allende was elected president in Chile, Latin America’s most consistent democratic country. Allende a socialist formed a collation government known as the UP(Unidad Popular) Popular Unity party. Allende’s coalition received a majority of the votes on a platform of combining elections and social reform to create revolution using agrarian reform, increased wages (30% the first year alone), support for the urban poor, with the nationalization of key industries. From 1962 – 1970 the CIA sent 11 million dollars to Chile to keep Allende from being elected; this does not count private funds (this is more than spent by the campaigns of the 1964 American presidential candidates Johnson and Goldwater.). The US soon pushed for a policy to make Chile ungovernable. In 1972 the US funded a truckers strike in an attempt, in Nixon's words, was to "make the Chilean economy scream". The ambassador to Chile, Edward Korry, described his task as "to do all within our power to condemn Chile and the Chileans to utmost deprivation and poverty." There was a massive destabilization and disinformation campaign. The CIA planted stories in El Mercurio, the most prominent newspaper, and fomented labor unrest and strikes. September 11, 1973 US-trained extremists in the Chilean military overthrew the government. Allende and several cabinet members were killed. The universities were put under military control, opposition parties were banned and thousands of Chileans killed, maimed and tortured. Henry Kissinger told the US ambassador, "Don't give me any of these political science lectures. We don't care about torture. We care about important things." Kissinger is also reported to have said, "I don't see why we should have to stand by and let a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people." This is indeed democracy redefined and is unfortunately too common in U.S. policy toward Latin America.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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The Dirty Wars:

Nicaragua


In the 1980’s a glaring example of our national posture is still reflected in the words of Franklin D. Roosevelt when he said, “Somoza (Nicaragua’s legendary dictator) is a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch.” For over 50 years, the U.S. backed the Somoza dynasty while they pillaged their own economy for personal gain. By 1979, the dynasty had only enemies and, therefore, fell without much of a fight to the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN). President Reagan largely through illegal channels, financed a covert war against the Sandinista government. He mined Nicaragua’s harbers; he destroyed power plants and bridges; he paid people to fight against their own. In the mid-1980’s, the World Court found the United States guilty of interfering in the affairs of a sovereign nation. The Court ordered our government to pay billions in war reparations. Those payments were never made and the U.S. refused to recognize the ruling of the World Court.

El Salvador

In the 1980’s military and economic aid to El Salvador exceeded 6 billion dollars. Two-thirds of the 750,000 people who fled El Salvador ended up in the U.S.: many were deported back to join the imprisoned or the disappeared. Archbishop Oscar Romero was gunned down in 1980 while conducting mass, and many church workers, mostly Jesuits, were assassinated. Three nuns and one layworker from the U.S. were also raped and murdered, their bodies found in a collective grave at a dumpsite. By 1984, 65,000 civilians were murdered by the National Guard and right-wing paramilitary forces. Despite this contradictory evidence, President Reagan's National Bipartisan Commission on Central America justified massive military support to El Salvador because of their promise for "democratic reform." One of the most striking examples of the death and horror encouraged by the United States occurred in El Mozote El Salvador. “Between December 11 and 13th 1981, the Atlacatl Battalion, the first immediate-reaction infantry battalion in the Salvadoran army to be trained and equipped by the United States, massacred more than a thousand people in six hamlets(refuge camps) located in the municipalities of Meanguera and Joateca, northern Morazan, El Salvador.”

Previous involvement of members of the current administration, in the U.S., in the previously mentioned interventions in Latin America:

Suspicion of senior officials of the US government being involved in the first coup in Venezuela are beginning to form based on their sorted histories in the “dirty wars” of the 1980’s under president Reagan and their links to Central American death squads during that time.

Several visits by the Venezuelans plotting the coup, including Carmona himself, began several months ago and continued up until the weeks preceding the coup. President Bush’s key policy maker for Latin America, Otto Reich, received them at the White House. A Defense Department official who is involved in the development of policy toward Venezuela said the administration's message was less categorical. "We were not discouraging people," the official said. "We were sending informal, subtle signals that we don't like this guy. We didn't say, `No, don't you dare,' “Otto Reich is a right-wing Cuban-American who, under Reagan, ran the Office for Public Diplomacy.” In congressional investigations it was show that he reported not to the State Department as it is said to under its official program, but to Reagan’s National Security Aide, Colonel Oliver North. “North was convicted and shamed for this role in Iran-Contra, whereby arms bought by busting US sanctions on Iran were sold to the Contra guerrillas and death squads, in revolt against the leftist government in Nicaragua.” Reich also has close ties to Venezuela as ambassador to Caracas in 1986.

A second member of the Bush ties to the dirty wars of the 1980’s is John Negroponte, now UN ambassador for the United States. Negroponte was Reagan’s “ambassador to Honduras from 1981 to 1985 when a US trained death squad tortured and murdered scores of civilians.”

Third on the list, Elliot Abrams “who operates in the White House as senior director of the National Security Council for ‘democracy, human rights and international operations’.” He was a leader in the theory of “Hemispherism” which “lead to the coup in Chile and the sponsorship of regimes and death squads that followed in Argentina, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Brazil, Panama, Bolivia, and elsewhere” During the Iran-Contra scandal he reported directly to Oliver North and harvested illegal funding for the rebellion and was convicted for misleading Congress and withholding information was subsequently pardoned by President Bush Sr.

Other connections include Gustavo Cinseros, a Venezuelan media tycoon and fishing companion of former President Bush. AFP news agency reported “according to a Venezuelan military source, US Army Lieutenant Colonel James Rodgers – an aide to the US military attaché – was present at Fort Tiuna in Caracas before Chavez was brought to that installation after the first coup.” AFP is also now reporting that a “second US military officer, Army Colonel Ronald MacCammorn, was also present.” Jorge Rodon member of Venezuelan parliament has “confirmed that one of those arrested who had fired upon demonstrators – the excuse to carry out the coup – is of US nationality.

Asked whether the administration now recognizes Mr. Chavez as Venezuela's legitimate president, one administration official replied, "He was democratically elected," then added, "Legitimacy is something that is conferred not just by a majority of the voters, however."

The Washington Post recalled that as some Latin American leaders were invoking the Inter-American Democratic Charter after the first coup, Fleischer [Bush's spokes person] announced that a transition civilian government had been installed in Venezuela -- with no mention of the Democratic Charter. It also recalled that when the Bush administration summoned all the hemisphere's ambassadors to a State Department briefing, Assistant Secretary Otto Reich is reported to have said that Chavez had it coming.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Part 2




This is part 2 about the current situation in Venezuela

Venezuela: Is the CIA preparing another coup?
By Bill Vann

With a “strike” organized by Venezuela’s employers now entering its second week, there is every indication that the South American country is being subjected to a classic destabilization campaign organized in collaboration with US intelligence.

Having failed to topple Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez in a US-backed coup last April, Venezuela’s ruling circles, working in conjunction with Washington, are attempting to force him to resign or provoke a new military seizure of power.

The threat that Washington will intervene directly in Venezuela—a strategic source of imported petroleum for the American market—cannot be ruled out.

The “strike”—in reality an employers’ lockout—began on December 2. It is the joint creation of FEDECAMARAS—Venezuela’s big business association—and the CTV, or Confederation of Venezuelan Workers, a corrupt labor bureaucracy that is closely tied to the AFL-CIO in the US. The CTV is also a recipient of substantial funding from the National Endowment for Democracy, a US agency created to funnel funds to foreign organizations that had previously been financed directly by the Central Intelligence Agency.

The joint big business-CTV action has had its most visible effect on the wealthier neighborhoods and downtown shopping districts of Caracas, where well-heeled demonstrators—backed by thugs on motorcycles—have forced stores to close. In the working class areas and the impoverished shantytowns in the hills surrounding the capital, there has been little impact on daily activity.

Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators poured into the capital from these neighborhoods on Saturday in a demonstration “for democracy and in defense of the constitution” called by supporters of the government, a mobilization far larger than anything the organizers of the FEDECAMARAS-CTV action have been able to mount.

In a county in which 80 percent of the 26 million inhabitants live in poverty, it is hardly surprising that a “strike” organized by and for a wealthy oligarchy has failed to mobilize the masses. To make up for what it lacks in popular support, those leading the attempt to bring down Chavez have turned to terrorist violence, economic sabotage and a barrage of media propaganda that amounts to a psychological warfare campaign against the population.

Last Friday night, as the leaders of the protest were debating whether they could continue their action, shots rang out in a plaza in the wealthy Altamira section of Caracas. The square has been the scene since October of a farcical demonstration by a group of military officers against Chavez. Most were implicated in last April’s aborted coup and have since been relieved of their commands. Working out of a luxury hotel nearby, the generals, admirals and colonels had designated the plaza as “liberated territory.”

A number of supporters of the anti-Chavez demonstrations were in the plaza when the shooting began, and at least three lay dead and over a score wounded when it was over.

No sooner had the smoke cleared, than General Enrique Medina Gomez, one of the dissident officers, took to the airwaves to blame Chavez for the bloodshed and call for the military to overthrow him “like it did on April 11,” when the Venezuelan president was held incommunicado for two days and a civilian-military junta was formed. That coup quickly collapsed in the face of mass protests and dissension within the military.

Meanwhile, the country’s main television channels—whose owners are all aligned with the anti-Chavez forces—began broadcasting scenes of the carnage in the plaza over and over again.

In the aftermath of the shootings, however, it was revealed that the principal suspect, captured at the scene, was Portuguese national Joao Gouveia. Appearing to be mentally unbalanced, he said he had arrived from Lisbon the day before and had carried out the attack with the aim of retaliating at one of the television networks for persecuting him.

A Congressman and journalist who supports the Chavez government claimed, however, that Gouveia was feigning his mental problems and had confessed to carrying out the attack after being contracted for money by General Medina Gomez. Meanwhile, there were press reports in Venezuela that another suspected gunman filmed at the scene had been seen earlier the same day with the mayor of Caracas, a leading figure in the anti-Chavez movement.

This strange assault follows the pattern set last April, in which 18 people were killed and 30 wounded when unknown gunmen fired on an anti-government demonstration. The bloodshed provided the pretext for military coup leaders to lead an assault on the government palace, arrest Chavez and announce the formation of a provisional junta. On that occasion, the rebel generals taped a recording—hours before the shooting—declaring themselves against the government and blaming the government for a number of deaths at the demonstration. Several of those arrested for the shootings were released almost immediately by the short-lived junta.

Meanwhile, the strike’s effect has been greatly amplified by the actions of management of the state-owned oil corporation, PDVSA. It was Chavez’s attempt to reorganize this institution—long used as a cash cow by the wealthy supporters of Venezuela’s old ruling parties, Copei and Acción Democrática—that provoked last year’s coup attempt. He subsequently reached an accommodation with these managers, even agreeing to provide them with hefty salary increases.

Ships’ officers on oil tankers and private companies that operate oil trucks have been recruited to the anti-Chavez plot in a bid to paralyze the country’s oil industry and thereby shut down its entire economy. Venezuela, the fifth-largest petroleum exporter, is dependent on oil exports for 80 percent of its foreign earnings. It supplies 13 percent of the crude oil imported by the US. The US consumes 70 percent of the 2.5 million barrels of oil Venezuela produces daily.

“Petroleum export activity has been paralyzed; the activity of the ports has been paralyzed; the activity of the refineries is beginning to be paralyzed and of course the activity of production as well,” said Ali Rodriguez, president of the PDVSA, on Monday.

“We are threatened with a national disaster; no worker who loves his company or his country will permit this to continue,” he said. He warned that unless PDVSA could resume the normal distribution of oil, it would be unable to meet payrolls and payments to suppliers and would be liable to massive fines for failing to meet delivery contracts. Rodriguez is the only one of the eight PDVSA directors who did not resign in protest against Chavez.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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While refineries are reportedly full to capacity, they are unable to distribute the oil because of the transportation stoppage. As a result, gas stations have begun closing down and at least one major airline canceled scores of flights because of concerns over a lack of fuel. Some foreign carriers were also reportedly stopping flights to Caracas, supposedly out of concern that their aircraft could be stranded there.

In response, Chavez ordered the military to take control of refineries, oil distribution centers and those oil tankers that had halted operations.

In a further attempt to undermine Venezuela’s already depressed economy, banks announced a one-day shutdown Monday and indicated that they would maintain reduced hours and services indefinitely.

The atmosphere of provocations and employer-organized economic sabotage recalls the CIA campaign to destabilize the Popular Unity government of Chile’s President Salvador Allende in 1973. It was subsequently revealed that US intelligence, working through both business associations and corrupt right-wing unions, funded a truckers’ strike that paralyzed the country. The economic dislocation set the stage for the September 11, 1973 military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet that led to a bloodbath of the Chilean working class and 15 years of dictatorship.

There can be little doubt that Washington is deeply involved in instigating the disruptions in Venezuela. Before it launches a war against Iraq, the Bush administration will most certainly assure itself a secure supply of Venezuelan oil. In the long term, the US ruling elite, together with the Venezuelan oligarchs, look to a substantial profit windfall through the privatization of the state-owned oil company.

Since last April, Chavez has sought to accommodate himself to Washington, toning down his nationalist rhetoric and even making a public declaration that Venezuela would remain a “reliable” oil supplier to the US market in the event that an invasion of Iraq disrupted supplies from elsewhere.

Even though the Venezuelan government has largely abided by the economic prescriptions of the International Monetary Fund, the Bush administration is determined to oust Chavez, whose condemnations of US bombings in Afghanistan and friendly ties to Castro’s Cuba provoked Washington’s ire. Like the Venezuelan ruling class, the US administration sees Chavez’s limited reforms and populist appeals to the country’s impoverished masses as an intolerable threat to wealth and privilege.

Following the ouster of Chavez last April, US officials welcomed the coup. It was revealed at the time that senior Bush administration aides, including Assistant Secretary of State Otto Reich and White House advisor Elliott Abrams—both key players in the Reagan administration’s covert network for supporting the contra terrorist war on Nicaragua in the 1980s—had met repeatedly in Washington with the coup’s organizers.

Loyally echoing the position of the administration in Washington, the mass media in the US has deliberately distorted the nature of the events in Venezuela. The New York Times refers to it, for example, as a “national walkout,” when in reality relatively few Venezuelan workers have joined the anti-government actions, while most have been locked out by their employers. In some instances, workers have occupied shutdown plants in protest.

Similarly, the confrontation is presented as one between a democratic opposition demanding that Chavez submit to a national referendum on his presidency, and an authoritarian regime that is determined to prevent such a vote.

Thus, the Times writes that the opposition’s aim is “to avoid having to wait until the next presidential election in 2006” to resolve the crisis.

In reality, Venezuela’s constitution, approved by popular vote in 1999, provides for just such a referendum midway through the presidential term, which will be in August 2003. The political representatives of the Venezuelan oligarchy, however, are demanding that Chavez submit to an extra-constitutional vote on February 2.

Their unwillingness to wait seven months is bound up with concerns over pending legislation on land reform and the reorganization of the PDVSA, as well as fears within the Venezuelan “democratic” opposition that it cannot achieve the number of votes needed to oust Chavez in any case. (The constitution requires that a referendum get the support of a greater percentage of the electorate than what was won by the president in the previous election, in Chavez’s case, 57 percent.)

In Venezuela, outrage over the local media’s role as a propaganda arm for those seeking to topple the Chavez government led to mass demonstrations outside of television stations Monday night, with thousands of protesters chanting “Coup-mongers, tell the truth!” The five privately owned television networks have openly promoted anti-government actions, while broadcasting false stories to undermine the government. In Maracay, demonstrators occupied the station.

The protests were met with an angry condemnation from Organization of American States Secretary General César Gaviria, who condemned them as “intimidating actions” and demanded that the government “take action” to defend “freedom of the press and of expression.”

The comments exposed the bias of Gaviria, a former Colombian president, who is supposed to be mediating a settlement between Chavez and his opponents. Like the US State Department, he has increasingly indicated his support for the early elections demanded by the country’s oligarchy.

Chavez has himself indicated a willingness to negotiate on this demand. The opposition, however, is now seeking to use the economic disruption to press for his immediate resignation, while insisting that it will not accept his vice president, José Vicente Rangel, even as a temporary successor.
 
May 8, 2002
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ColdBlooded said:
In the 1950’s a new democratically elected leftist government of Jacobo Arbenz emerged in Guatemala. One of the major platforms of this new government was a policy of agricultural reform where a study of all the country’s large land holdings would be assessed. If the government found that less than one third of the land was being cultivated the other two thirds of the land would be confiscated WITH compensation. The major problem with this in the eyes of the large landholders (especially the U.S. corporation United Fruit which during this time had 3 million acres of land, 2,000 railway miles, and 1,000 ships in Central America alone) was that these lands would be paid for at their declared tax value. Meaning whatever the landowners claimed the land was worth on their taxes would be how much they would be paid for the land. Obviously these landowners were under declaring the value of their land and were both furious and scared. The relationship between the Eisenhower administration and United Fruit were “downright cozy”. CIA Director Allen Dulles was former President of United Fruit (and former director of the Schroder Bank, which the CIA used to launder its funds for covert operations.) and his brother Attorney General John Foster Dulles formerly handled the deal between IRCA (International Railways of Central America) to United Fruit, Assistant Secretary for Inter-American Affairs John Moors Cabot’s family owned interests in United Fruit, and Eisenhower’s personal secretary was also the wife of the company’s public relations director. Calls quickly broke out for the Eisenhower administration to intervene militarily against the “Communists” in Guatemala which so eagerly wanted to “steal their land” and redistribute it to the local population to put it to use, though it should be noted that the reforms of the Arbenz government were no more communist than the Alliance for Progress reforms in the 1960’s pushed by none other than the United States. The CIA soon began to openly circulate through Guatemala “creating a climate of tension and uncertainty to prompt divisions in the armed forces, weaken Arbenz’s resolve, and, hopefully, provoke a coup d’etat.” In a speech to Congress Eisenhower “warned that “the Reds” were already in control of Guatemala and now sought to spread their “tentacles” to El Salvador and other neighbors.” A CIA sponsored coup was put into action in 1954 with planes flown and provided by the United States. This coup against a democratically elected government was not viewed as something bad, all one needs to do is pick up a copy of president Eisenhower’s memoirs. The Guatemalan coup was a success for the newly formed CIA and helped to form many views regarding intervention in Latin America. This pattern follows through history of U.S. intervention in the region both open and covert. Other more brief examples include The Dominican Republic and Chile.
for all you anti-america government haters, there is a book out called "bitter fruit" that speaks on the Guatamala situation, united fruit and all of that, it basically has an anti american theme so i am sure some of you all will like it.
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Re: Re: Is the CIA preparing another coup?

Mcleanhatch said:


for all you anti-america government haters, there is a book out called "bitter fruit" that speaks on the Guatamala situation, united fruit and all of that, it basically has an anti american theme so i am sure some of you all will like it.
they way u explained it...its sounds bias.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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A better book about the U.S. intervention in the democracy of Guatemala resulting in the murder of thousands of innocent people is called:

Shattered Hope
by Piero Gleijeses

More scholarly and written better.

The most thorough account yet available of a revolution that saw the first true agrarian reform in Central America, this book is also a penetrating analysis of the tragic destruction of that revolution. In no other Central American country was U.S. intervention so decisive and so ruinous, charges Piero Gleijeses. Yet he shows that the intervention can be blamed on no single "convenient villain." "Extensively researched and written with conviction and passion, this study analyzes the history and downfall of what seems in retrospect to have been Guatemala's best government, the short-lived regime of Jacobo Arbenz, overthrown in 1954, by a CIA-orchestrated coup." -- Foreign Affairs
 
May 8, 2002
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ColdBlooded said:
Yet he shows that the intervention can be blamed on no single "convenient villain." "Extensively researched and written with conviction and passion, this study analyzes the history and downfall of what seems in retrospect to have been Guatemala's best government, the short-lived regime of Jacobo Arbenz, overthrown in 1954, by a CIA-orchestrated coup." -- Foreign Affairs
but you guys got to admit that Arbenz was a Communist and was very influenced by Castro.

i mean the way i read "bitter fruit" Arbenz seemed like a good guy. but at the same time you cant deny that we were fighting communism and the USSR, then and all these Latin American countries started coming up with revolutions led by communists inspired by the USSR and Cuba. that is why we were so involved in those countries to try to stop the rise of communism (sandanistas-contras)
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#11
Re: Re: Is the CIA preparing another coup?

Mcleanhatch said:
all you anti-america government haters
That aint the correct term for us. I dont think many of the cats on here are actually anti-America. Im not at least...its how the country is run that pisses me off.

In the words of Eminem, "Im all for America...FUCK THE GOVERNMENT"
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Mcleanhatch said:


but you guys got to admit that Arbenz was a Communist and was very influenced by Castro.

Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán was president of Guatemala (1951-1954)

Landing of the Granma on Cuba's southeastern coast = December 2, 1956

Cuba's revolutionary victory against Batista = January 1, 1959
(should also point out that at this point in time Fidel Castro had NEVER declared himself a socialist, communist, or Marxist Leninist) just a side note: the organization was also funneled money from the CIA from 1957 - 1958


I'd be interested to hear how you figure Arbenz was influenced by Castro. Please enlighten me on this.



Mcleanhatch said:

but you guys got to admit that Arbenz was a Communist . . .
and all these Latin American countries started coming up with revolutions led by communists inspired by the USSR and Cuba. that is why we were so involved in those countries to try to stop the rise of communism (sandanistas-contras)
Arbenz was not a communist. Left leaning yes, but a communist no way. Also there was no violent revolution to bring him into power, he was democratically elected. Shows how committed the U.S. was/is to democracy. And as i said before:

"it should be noted that the reforms of the Arbenz government were no more communist than the Alliance for Progress reforms in the 1960’s pushed by none other than the United States. "

Or maybe you were suggesting that the Alliance for Progress was a U.S. sponsored form of communism?

The U.S. executed this coup using communism as an excuse. United Fruit was just upset that they lost their complete strangle hold on an entire country and their relationship as i previously stated was extremely close with the Eisenhower regime.
 
May 8, 2002
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ColdBlooded said:
I'd be interested to hear how you figure Arbenz was influenced by Castro. Please enlighten me on this.
when Arbenz was exiled from Guatamala where did he go? Cuba

he always had close ties to Castro, he even went to Mexico after leaving Cuba and tried to spread his "communistic views" there

ColdBlooded said:
Arbenz was not a communist. Left leaning yes, but a communist no way. Also there was no violent revolution to bring him into power, he was democratically elected. Shows how committed the U.S. was/is to democracy. And as i said before:
but his policies were communistic. i mean tell me what else can you call it when in incoming new ruler seizes all the privately owned land in the name of the Guatamalan federal government. so that the land is owned by the Guatamalan government then leases some of it out to the people.

hense mean ing no1 owns any land at all. if you were some1 who worked hard to buy 200 acres , he would zap his fingers and all of a sudden your hard earned land became land of the government
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Mcleanhatch said:


when Arbenz was exiled from Guatamala where did he go? Cuba

he always had close ties to Castro, he even went to Mexico after leaving Cuba and tried to spread his "communistic views" there
You said he was influenced by Castro. How? Arbenz's government didn't exist anymore by the time of the Cuban revolution. His brief time in Cuba developed only after the united states proved itself not interested in democracy after they aided in the coup that deposed his government.

His exile included Mexico, Switzerland, France, and Uruguay as well. Communist countries? Influences of their leaders on him?

There weren't any that applied to his government because it was already over. And same with Castro.







Mcleanhatch said:


but his policies were communistic. i mean tell me what else can you call it when in incoming new ruler seizes all the privately owned land in the name of the Guatamalan federal government. so that the land is owned by the Guatamalan government then leases some of it out to the people.

hense mean ing no1 owns any land at all. if you were some1 who worked hard to buy 200 acres , he would zap his fingers and all of a sudden your hard earned land became land of the government
I'll ask you again, was the Alliance for Progress a communist undertaking?

Also as far as Agrarian reform in Guatemala under Arbenz. All the land that was expropriated was uncultivated land. Not all uncultivated land, but only land which was part of a holding that had less than one third under cultivation. And the land was compensated for. It was not stolen. The land was compensated for upon it's declared value. Meaning whatever the landowners claimed the land was worth on their taxes would be how much they would be paid for the land. Cheaters weren't prospering. Also should mention that it was constitutional and done democratically.
 
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ColdBlooded said:
Also as far as Agrarian reform in Guatemala under Arbenz. All the land that was expropriated was uncultivated land. Not all uncultivated land, but only land which was part of a holding that had less than one third under cultivation
but it was still taken from its rightful owners by force.

ColdBlooded said:
And the land was compensated for. It was not stolen.
iwould argue that anything taken by force is stolen

ColdBlooded said:
The land was compensated for upon it's declared value.
yes it was and for that the owners ultimately got shafted

ColdBlooded said:
Meaning whatever the landowners claimed the land was worth on their taxes would be how much they would be paid for the land.
which is how the government stole the land, and as i may add again they took it by force

ColdBlooded said:
Cheaters weren't prospering. Also should mention that it was constitutional and done democratically.
of course it was constitutional . Arbens and his fellow conrads wrote the constitution. and yes he was voted in democratically, that he was and i think that he meant to do good but he went about it the wrong way. i mean you just dont go in and steal peoples land for no reason