If Blacks were to Organize under a Common Language.....

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Oct 28, 2005
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#1
Which do you believe would be the best choice?


I believe that the language should have all of the following characteristics, for specific reasons:

1) African Language. It makes no sense to adopt a European or Asian language, when it is African descendents we are talking about.

2) Sub-Saharan Language. Similar to the above. Arabic, Berber, etc. make little or no sense to learn.

3) Niger-Congo and Bantu Language. Bantu is the most widespread language family out of the Niger-Congo family--N-C being the largest Sub-Saharan language classification.

4) Non-Tonal Languages. The most common tonal language is Chinese, and if anybody is familiar with chinese, you know its fucked up to learn. "TO" for example could mean 4 different things, depending on what tone of voice you use.

5) Non-Click Language. Clicks are almost impossible for Non-Native speakers to learn.

6) Be a Lingua Franca and not a Tribal Language. It is important to have a language that is not limited to one area or locale, but rather, something that has many borrowings and that has regional appeal.



To this End, there is only one language that fits the bill: Swahili.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Swahili is a great page to go to learn about it, and if you follow the links at the end, you can find even more information about it.

You will find that it borrows a huge amount of words from Arabic, but also, from French, English and others. THe language has been described as having as many French, English and Arabic borrowings as English has French, German, etc. borrowings.



As for the implementation of such a language, and indeed, even explaining WHY the "need" to "organize" under a Common Language--that much is hard to explain.

Americans are Largely monolingual, that is, they speak one language. Many people who don't like to be labeled, and are independent, and are basically dumbasses, will try to pretend that speaking a dialect--Southern English, AAVE, etc.--"counts" as another language. It does not. It is, essentially, all the same language. (For those thinking to pull up the info where I said that English and AAVE/Ebonics are "essentially two languages", that was for another broader point. This comment here is about different languages, period; not about H Varities, Sociolinguistics, etc.)

My point is, that we are a closed-minded people, no matter how much we try and be Hippies or Rastas or anything else. In France, it would be inconceivable(sp) to not have learned at least some of BOTH German and English. In Germany, it is the same with French and English. In Mexico, they are required (according to most students I talked to) to take English classes.

Yet in the United States, we aren't required to take ANY specific language. We can choose whatever we want. And what is the net effect of that? That it is not desirable to learn anything. We pick a random language, study it for a year, and then we're off to something else, the same way we take our 2 English classes or 3 Science classes and move along to what really interests us.

The way i see it is this: If we are going to study languages, we might as well find a language to settle upon. And as far as Blacks go, there could be no better language to study than Swahili.


Of the possibly usages, there are many. Groups like the NAACP could hold conferences and lectures in Swahili. This would demonstrate that, if you are really dedicated to this Black shit, you will learn the language and then come speak it. Not just prepare some junk-ass essay in English, then come and deliver it monotone, hoping for applause and another line to add to your credentials. It could be much bigger than that.

In Rap music or Music in general, the Swahili language is very adaptive. There is also the possibility of creating a Swahili-English pidgin-creole, or mix of the two. This is similar to the way Reggaeton artists usually either rap in All Spanish, or in a Spanish-English mix. And that shit sounds cool as fuck.

In the Hood.....I'm not a hood person, but I'm sure you can do your own thinking here. It is one thing to use English slang, like "The eagle has landed" and so on. It is quite another to use Swahili equivalents, that are much lesser known. Outsiders, Snitches and Police would all have to learn this Swahili language to be able to track and follow you.

In the Classroom, this will create a situation where Black students are surrounded by Black students. Because Swahili would be an ADOPTED language, and not one with any "real" reason to learn it other than to be "down", it will not attract many Non-Black peoples or Non-Black teachers.

At Home, it combines many of the same situations I am describing above. Jewish kids have parents to yell at them or talk to them in Yiddish, when there is mixed company; Latinos do the same with Spanish. With Swahili, this would be a way to help keep people out of our business, and if they DID understand what you were saying, they would be someone who has demonstrated themselves to be truly concerned with the plight of the Black people by even learning the language in the first place. -- And of course, Embarassing things could be talked about in Swahili, or it could be used over the phone to say things like "I love you", etc, when you are talking on the phone and your friends are around.


Now, I know there are some of you out there that don't like Black Unity, that is to say, You live under this banner of "Let's everyone hold hands, not fight! Our common enemy is Rich people!" -- This is easy to say when you look around and 90% of the Nations wealth is in the hands of 2-3%--those 2-3% being almost exclusively White people and other Non-Blacks.

I know you "down" White people that grew up "in the streets" will not like this proposal. You feel you've already "proven" yourself, and some even believe yourselves to be more Black than Blacks that grew up in the Suburbs and not around many other Black people. You need to realize that your games and debate-framing can only go so far.

You are not Black. Black is not a culture that you learn. Black is a condition. You are not it. At any time, you can cease being your "Black" white self, and go live in the White world. You can move into the Whitest, most racist cities in the country, and settle in and nobody would know anything about your former life. Others of us are not able to do these things so easily.

I don't mean to sound Anti-White on this particular segment--I am half white myself--but the point is that, if you are 100% White and *TRULY DOWN* with this Black cause (reversing Gentrification, stronger schools, eradicating AIDS, etc.), then you would not be hesitant to Blacks uniting under something that doesn't include and even aims to exclude you. What we need right now is more Black leaders--not White leaders who know what to say to pacify us.


"CRIME"

I brought this up in a thread about crime, and indeed, I do believe that there are ways that the adoption of Swahili as the de facto Black Language could lead to decreases in it, but this is more of an indirect thing than direct.

More Unity means More Understanding. More Understanding, of course, means Less Disagreements. Less Disagreements leads to less Non-Essential Crimes (if there is such a thing.)


"WHEN?"

It is important to understand that I don't think this is something that should happen overnight or in 5 years, but rather, something that will need to gradually be built for the next 10-20+. The main idea is, that if you have children, it would be great if you could raise them speaking BOTH Swahili and English. If you had pride in them speaking Swahili, the thinking goes that you would pay extra attention to make sure that they're not only learning it, but that their English doesn't fall behind. The result is a two- or even threefold increase in the amount of attention you pay them.

Anyone who is familiar with Bilingual Children, knows that they often act as "bridges" or Liasons, so to speak. They connect cultures and are often very bright and motivated.


This is all I have for now. There is much more, but I will wait. Just know that the reasons for Swahili are endless, and the only real argument against it are: 1) it takes too long, and 2) it doesn't earn you money. -- And this is not the thinking we came from. This is American philosophy, not our original philosophy.
 
May 13, 2002
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#3
I have never seen anyone so obsessed with language before in my life. You and your damn Swahili. But whatever floats your boat.

I do agree with your point regarding the need for Amerikans to learn other languages. This should change and our shitty educational system is to blame for this tragedy.

But for black Amerikans to settle on Swahili, come on now. How often are people going to travel to East Africa? Why not learn a language that would be useful like Spanish or Arabic or something practical? A language they could actually use when speaking to people from other countries, not some language they could use to communicate with themselves.

The point of learning a new language, for most people, is to communicate with others who do not speak their native tongue.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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2-0-Sixx said:
This should change and our shitty educational system is to blame for this tragedy.
just a quick little tangent

you wouldn't say that nationalism, racism, and xenophobia are the root of the problem with people putting the emphasis on speaking “god's language” and everyone else in the world should too so they can communicate with US? but rather the problem is the schools?
 
Sep 28, 2004
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#5
I believe everyone should be offered the oppurtunity to learn more than one language to better the community they live in by being able to communicate with those who may not be fluent in both languages. Language is an expression of a culture. But if it excludes every one who does not come from that culture, doesn't it hurt more than help? There should be more efforts to unite everyone than to place more and more differences in the mix. A language that is spoken only by a group, and never shared or taught with others, seems more like a secret club or organization. It is good to unite, and maybe a language is a good thing to unite under.. But perhaps actions and ideas are better than simply drawing another dividing line. " This is our language, you're not allowed," seems a little rough. But maybe I am not looking at it from the right perspective. Uniting for a cause seems appropriate, as does uniting under a common vision..

What would it change, really? Yes, perhaps a language for one group only which excludes everyone else would cause unity. But would it change the things they are already talking about, or planning? Probably not, but it would add secrecy and seclude them from the people who can't speak the language. Would this help in the long run?

Like I said before, perhaps I am just looking at it from the wrong perspective. If so, I apologize.
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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#6
i agree that if something were to unify non-white people, then whites shouldnt have any say in it and if they were "down", they should support it. good point.


so many white kids think that theyre down cuz they like hip hop or dress in Ecko. like the saying goes "They wanna be the nigga but they dont wanna be the nigger."
 
Oct 28, 2005
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#7
^^ Very true. I am glad someone saw where i was coming from with that.


@Crow

It is an great point that I am struggling to think of an answer for. The problem is that nothing like this has ever been tried. Native Americans didn't just one day say, "OK, Natives. Lets everyone learn Cherokee!" It just doesn't work that way.

What is great about Swahili, is that it is anything but a secret language. Anyone is free to learn it, and there are thousands of books out there for it. What I am saying is that the language will not be meant for anyone but Black or African people. It would be our way to connect with each other. When you learn languages, you always learn about cultures as well. Learning Swahili would be a great way to re-connect with our distant African relatives.

AFTERWARDS, once there is FORWARD PROGRESS, it may be appropriate to have the classes 2/3 full of White people, and Asian professors teaching it, etc. But for now, this is about UNITY; Not FAIRNESS. Hopefully that clears at least a little bit up.

2-0-Sixx said:
<snip> {F}or black Amerikans to settle on Swahili, come on now. How often are people going to travel to East Africa? Why not learn a language that would be useful like Spanish or Arabic or something practical? A language they could actually use when speaking to people from other countries, not some language they could use to communicate with themselves.

The point of learning a new language, for most people, is to communicate with others who do not speak their native tongue.
Excellent point. And I'm not trying to sound condescending when i say that.

One added bonus of Swahili, one of its best features, is that it is both a Lingua Franca AND an African Language. And the majority, I believe, of Swahili's borrowings are in fact from Arabic. They comprise something like 40% of the whole language. So if you were to learn Swahili, it would not be terribly difficult to learn Arabic after that; the Swahili would make it much easier.


The other is that, this language needs to become Worldwide. No longer will it be confined to just the one area, as English in Britannia, French in Gaul, or most recently, Urdu in Hindustan. The hope is that the people who already speak Bantu languages--and there are tens of millions of them--will see that the American Black is giving his languages a shot. So seeing as though they already speak Bantu language, the thinking goes that it would not be too hard for them to learn Swahili as well. If you look at the Wiki page and do some further research, you will see that Bantu languages are class languages. Something like Male/Female in Spanish or French, only Swahili for example has 15 classes. But I digress.

Those Africans that speak Hausa or languages like these, will require some convincing. But once it is explained to them the difficulties of Tonal/Click languages, they should understand why Swahili is chosen. (Which reminds me: Swahili is written in our same Latin/"English" alphabet. There is no separate alphabet to learn.) The goal here is not to just hi-jack a language, and start using it like its our own, but to designate a language as one that Blacks should move towards learning if they are able.
 
Oct 28, 2005
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#12
EDJ said:
AIN'T THIS THE SAME SHIT AS:
http://siccness.net/vb/showthread.php?t=172944 ?

IN THAT THREAD YOU COULDN'T MAKE YOUR POINT. BLAK FOLK ARE UNITED IN SLANg. THE CLOSEST THANg TO THE REALIZATION OF YOUR DREAM TADOU, IS THE INNER-MIXXIN' OF SWAHILI INTO THAT SLANg. OTHA THAN THAT, YOUR IDEAL IS FAR-FETCHED.
People were having problems with focus and concentration, and being unable to connect Swahili and reduced violence without me typing 100 paragraphs of COMMON SENSE conclusions, so I have instead changed the focus. I had no problem proving and SUSTAINING my point, but this thread is able to make it much more clear what I am getting at. There is no 'This point, and as a result, that point'. It is all one point.

And No. Sorry, you are wrong. Black people are not united under anything but universal complacency. It is obvious that if you cannot offer up an alternative language, that you don't understand the point to be had in the first place.


fodewada said:
isnt ebonics a language why not make that a uniform black language
At times, it's a language. But for all practical purposes, it is not. Ebonics will probably never be standardized, and thats really what you need for it to be a national/official language.
 
Sep 28, 2004
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#14
I had to think about a reply. Took me a minute.

Now, I see the idea of later, as you said, teaching it in classes to people. But at first it can't be fair. It has to do its job first before it can move on. "this is about UNITY; Not FAIRNESS." I'm just concerned about what will happen in the mean time while it's in the "unfair" stage of the process. A lot of people who aren't included are going to notice, and most of them don't have the patience to learn the language. Yes, other people can pick up a book, learn the language and try to join in. How will they be accepted? Will they be respected for trying to learn the language? Just questions I am posing..

I agree with the idea of unifying even if it excludes those around them. But communication is a powerful concept. The only thing I have against the language is that suddenly in schools there may come a divide, and in the work place as well. However, I want to focus more on how it MIGHT affect kids. Children are notorious for wanting to be included, and if they see their friends having private conversations in a language they can not be a part of.. well, that leaves an impression. " You don't speak this language, so if we want you to know something we'll tell you in English."

I'm not saying that learning the language is a bad idea, because if it were accepted it would unify. However, you and I both know how other people work. Hopefully it wouldn't happen, but excluded groups tend to get a little suspicious. " What are you talking about that you have to say in your own language, which no one else really knows?"

If taught at home, and kept away from classrooms, it may divide schools. Make children more cliquey, and more likely to stick to their own groups. At least with Spanish, even if a group of children are speaking it together there is an option of taking a Spanish class at school. That way, at least, there's an option of understanding. Perhaps this is just how it would have to happen in the UNFAIR stage, but I think it would draw deep lines between people.

Then again, I could be totally wrong and it might not bother anyone one bit to hear conversations they can't understand. If people have respect for another human being, they will understand that person's right to talk to their peers in whatever fashion they deem appropriate. No one has the right to bitch. America is a land of many languages, and people should accept that. However, the languages here have come here because the folks speaking them came here with it. To adopt a language for a different reason may confuse other people on the outside. Maybe after some time, it will change.. You can't hesitate with an idea this powerful just because the excluded groups may get testy.
 
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#15
CannibalCrow said:
I had to think about a reply. Took me a minute.

Now, I see the idea of later, as you said, teaching it in classes to people. But at first it can't be fair. It has to do its job first before it can move on. "this is about UNITY; Not FAIRNESS." I'm just concerned about what will happen in the mean time while it's in the "unfair" stage of the process. A lot of people who aren't included are going to notice, and most of them don't have the patience to learn the language. Yes, other people can pick up a book, learn the language and try to join in. How will they be accepted? Will they be respected for trying to learn the language? Just questions I am posing..
I will try not to split this post up too much, but this paragraph obviously needs touching on.

I believe that the nature of the Swahili language will very much help the learning process. What will happen is that I will need to get something going first, build up my arguments, and then start convincing Rappers, Basketball Players, and people like these to start using the language.

Once people start hearing, for example, rap songs with Swahili phrases or even choruses, they will begin to take notice. They will tell themselves, "Hey, what is this language?" Then they will find out it is Swahili, they will see the arguments for and against learning it, and then decide on their own if it is worth it. But the bottom line is that it will not hurt them to learn it. You can do more WITH the Swahili than you can WITHOUT it. This is the same way with most foreign languages.

Consequently, this is also the reason that I cannot take people like dead prez seriously. To my knowledge, they speak no African languages. They are just people that run around being Anti-White and speaking out against Black History Month, and yet, effectively do nothing to change anything. Just rap and complain and hope one of their fans will do all the work for them. The only problem is, most of their fans are white, which might well be part a larger conspiracy to keep the not-about-shit Black Power rappers in power, and keep the about-shit Black Power rappers silenced, but that is another topic.......

I agree with the idea of unifying even if it excludes those around them. But communication is a powerful concept. The only thing I have against the language is that suddenly in schools there may come a divide, and in the work place as well. However, I want to focus more on how it MIGHT affect kids. Children are notorious for wanting to be included, and if they see their friends having private conversations in a language they can not be a part of.. well, that leaves an impression. " You don't speak this language, so if we want you to know something we'll tell you in English."
This is extremely true. It delights me that you would bring this up.

I believe everyone should eventually learn Swahili, the same way I believe all Americans should study and learn Spanish, and all Mexicans should learn Nahua (or Maya, or other indigenous languages). The thing is, we need to focus on what is important right now. And what is important is not EVERYBODY learning Swahili; but BLACK PEOPLE learning Swahili.

If little White kids are too young to understand and be explained the situation....at that age, I'm sure the Black kids would teach them some anyways. Do you see what I mean here? It would be stupid for Black parents to tell their Bilingual Black children, "Don't teach any Non-Black People our language!!" Non-Black people are going to learn the language regardless, but the focus is smoething that should not be aimed at them.

This is the same way Bilingual schools are AIMED AT Chicanos, or people raised Speaking English by Spanish-speaking/English-limited parents. It is GREAT that all colors of people would flock to these schools and try to sign their children up...but that is not what the schools are for. And it would be foolish to allow 193 White children into the classes and 7 Chicanos, by some kind of "lottery" or other system, just because those White parents are, in a way, jealous that their kids are not being raised Bilingual and others kids are.

(Side note: I am having a real hard time saying White instead of "Non-Chicano", or White instead of "Non-Black" and so on, but just so it is known by all, I am not trying to be racist against White people specifically here. In ALL CASES, I certainly DO mean to exclude Asians, Native Americans, etc. as well! :cool: )

Swahili bilingual schools are coming. The first one might be 15-20 years away, but it is coming. It might only cover K-6.....but it is coming.

I'm not saying that learning the language is a bad idea, because if it were accepted it would unify. However, you and I both know how other people work. Hopefully it wouldn't happen, but excluded groups tend to get a little suspicious. " What are you talking about that you have to say in your own language, which no one else really knows?"

If taught at home, and kept away from classrooms, it may divide schools. Make children more cliquey, and more likely to stick to their own groups. At least with Spanish, even if a group of children are speaking it together there is an option of taking a Spanish class at school. That way, at least, there's an option of understanding. Perhaps this is just how it would have to happen in the UNFAIR stage, but I think it would draw deep lines between people.

Then again, I could be totally wrong and it might not bother anyone one bit to hear conversations they can't understand. If people have respect for another human being, they will understand that person's right to talk to their peers in whatever fashion they deem appropriate. No one has the right to bitch. America is a land of many languages, and people should accept that. However, the languages here have come here because the folks speaking them came here with it. To adopt a language for a different reason may confuse other people on the outside. Maybe after some time, it will change.. You can't hesitate with an idea this powerful just because the excluded groups may get testy.
This again is a very good point. The Spanish part is hard to counter. The only real response I can come up with, is that there exists many groups of people (Cambodians, Vietnamese, persons from the Middle East, etc.) that speak their languages amongst each other and in Mixed Company, and yet, those languages are extremely hard to find and take in High School.

Again....It would be great for White people to file into all the Swahili classes. But if it means that Black people are left out because the Swahili classes are already full of Non-Black people...that is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I am not saying Swahili should become "The Black People Class", but that is certainly who should take it.

As far as the Clique'ing goes, I am honestly not very concerned about that. As someone who went to a school with about 1% Black people, it is hard to just come to those people out of nowhere and strike up conversations. What do you even say?

"Hey, I'm Black too! Let's hang out!"
"Say man, do you like rap music?"
"Say bro, do you play Basketball?"
etc. etc.

It's all racist. The only way you can really get to these people is if you have a class with them, or meet them thruogh another friend. One of the solutions to the Class issue, would be a Swahili class. You run the danger of the "You're Black, why don't you know Swahili?" line of thinking and questioning, but that is one of the risks that need to be taken.

The goal here, after all is said and done, is to bring Black people together. Not just BIG CITY Black people, but ALL Black people.

There are some among us that, honestly now, believe that because they grew up around Black people, that they are more "Black" than Black people who did not grow up around many Black people. I've even had one of these people call me "Nigga" and dare me to do anything about it. This is ludicrous, but is in fact how the world seems to operate.

Now....we can either AGREE with this, and run with the banner that Rich people are the Enemy (and make no mistake about it: there must ALWAYS be an enemy).....or we can realize this for what it might as well be: an attempt to divide Black-surrounded Blacks from White-Surrounded Blacks. A would-be attempt to make it seem that you "can't" be Black unless you live around other Blacks, and seeing as though most Blacks live in the bigger cities, you "can't" be Black unless you also live in one. -- This however does nothing but push Black people out of the SAFER suburbs and their BETTER Educational systems, and into the bigger cities where the schools are shittier, crime is higher and so on.

I definitely went off on a tangent there, but hopefully you see my larger point. This whole "White, Black, We're all poor, So let's all stick together" thing is not working. We are not progressing. If anything, we are just being more miserable, but only, with company this time around.


Again I bring up these 3 statements:

"Hey, I'm Black too! Let's hang out!"
"Say man, do you like rap music?"
"Say bro, do you play Basketball?"

I would personally be insulted if any Black person I didn't know came up to me, and tried to start a conversation with any one of these. Hell, I'd be pissed off if a Non-Black person did either. But, this is the way things work. And we need to get around that.

If I walked around wearing a shirt that said, for example, "Confidence" in Swahili, and a Black man walked up to me and said "So, you speak The Language?" in Swahili.....that is definitely not going to be insulting. That is going to be perplexing. That could very well be the start of a good friendship, or at the very least, someone to practice Swahili with.

There could of course be other markers, the same way gangs know members of their or rival gangs, but that is the most basic scenario.

The first key to being united, will be to speak the same language. However, it can be insulting to be around ANYONE you don't know and start speaking in Slang. Swahili is a great way to get around that, a great starting point.
 
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#16
TROLL said:
how come you have yet to go learn it if its so readily available? or have you?
I am learning French and Spanish right now, and I need both for the career I am persuing. If I was in something like French 302 and not 102 right now, I might feel more comfortable jumping in. Right now, it is important for me to fit in as much French and Spanish as I can, and worry about side-projects later. For other people, however, that are learning no languages (slang doesn't count)...this is an excellent side project to take up. And I will join them all soon enough.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about Conversational Level learning, memorizing some phrases here and there, just to sound smart. I'm talking about the real thing--studying the language from the ground up.
 

EDJ

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#17
^YOU ASSUMIN' TOO MUCH AND BASIN' YOUR DECISIONS ON THAT. THE CLOSEST THANg TO BLAK PEOPLE ACCEPTIN' SWAHILI WOULD BE IF IT WAS A TREND LIKE THE AFRICAN MEDALLIONS. AND YOU SEE HOW THAT CAME AND WENT. SO HOW ARE YOU gONNA INTRIgUE PEOPLE TO FOLLOW THE MOVEMENT AND BE STRONg WITH IT AND NOT JUST TREAT IT AS A FAD?
 
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#18
How? Because I'm not a not-about-shit Blackman like you. You demonstrate nothing here. You talk in your slang, you ask question all the time, and then you leave. You contribute nothing; not a one new idea or way to look at something.

Don't even bother explaining to me what Black people will do. You sound like the White Man with all that shit, sitting here and doing his job for him by arguing that Black people are only interested in fads and trends.

Just play your position and sit back and watch. I don't need people like you to help. All you can do to help right now, is be quiet. Because if you speak up, I continue to shut you down. This the way it is.
 

EDJ

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#19
^YOU gOT ME FUCCED UP. WITH YOUR REASONIN', EVERY BLAK MAN AIN'T SHIT AND WILL NEVA BE SHIT AND ARE THE "THUgS" WHITE PEOPLE LABEL US.

I'M ABOUT SOMETHIN'. I WAS CULTURED AND NURTURED IN A PREDOMINANT NUBIAN ENVIRONMENT. YOU WERE NOT. I WENT AgAINST ALL ODDS AND STILL KEEP IT TO MY CULTURE. I EMBRACE THE LEMONADES.