i hate it when people use this as an excuse to do nothing towards their life...when people use this to make excuses towards their failures...when people can not except consequinces for their actions...conceptualize the facts, there is no such thing as fate and you are all alone in this world of opportunity.
fate
- Thread starter odogfelon
- Start date
Only a fool does not acknowledge the obvious predestination of the universe and their life. The universe has a beginning, a middle, and an ending, all taking place within ETERNITY. Similarly your body has a beginning a middle and an ending, which is simply the temporary cover of your eternal soul.
God is all-knowing and eternal therefore He knows your every action in the past, your every current action, and the actions you will make in the future. Your path is already known. That is fate.
The inconceivable nature of God is that we have the *ILLUSION* of controlling and doing things. We think we are the ones who make shit happen. The truth is the exact opposite, everything happens due to the will of the Lord.
BUT with that said, I agree with you about people who use fate as an excuse not to handle they fuckin business or bullshit they way through life. Fate is unavoidable, and our lives are in the hands of God, but that does NOT mean that a muthafucka should just give up like a lazy ass fool and waste the opportunities of the short life they have.
God is all-knowing and eternal therefore He knows your every action in the past, your every current action, and the actions you will make in the future. Your path is already known. That is fate.
The inconceivable nature of God is that we have the *ILLUSION* of controlling and doing things. We think we are the ones who make shit happen. The truth is the exact opposite, everything happens due to the will of the Lord.
BUT with that said, I agree with you about people who use fate as an excuse not to handle they fuckin business or bullshit they way through life. Fate is unavoidable, and our lives are in the hands of God, but that does NOT mean that a muthafucka should just give up like a lazy ass fool and waste the opportunities of the short life they have.
What are you talking about? I didn't say one word about "heaven" or "hell".
I aint even worried about justifying God, but the fact is that "time" is an illusion. The reality is that existence exists eternally. There is no beginning and there is no ending to it. And the Supreme Being who exists eternally and knows all, also knows your destination.
That "heaven" and "hell" shit is for pre-school cats.
I aint even worried about justifying God, but the fact is that "time" is an illusion. The reality is that existence exists eternally. There is no beginning and there is no ending to it. And the Supreme Being who exists eternally and knows all, also knows your destination.
That "heaven" and "hell" shit is for pre-school cats.
Good for them.
No, that is YOUR limited and subjective view of Him. What exactly does omniscience have to do with being "sick" and "cruel"? I don't see the correllation.
Yes, our lives are in His hands, however that does not mean that you are excused for your behavior or actions. You can do what you want, or do nothing at all. Either way, karma will carry out it's duty.
Nahh, but Buddhism has alot of truth in it. Except for the whole 'void' thing.
No, that is YOUR limited and subjective view of Him. What exactly does omniscience have to do with being "sick" and "cruel"? I don't see the correllation.
Yes, our lives are in His hands, however that does not mean that you are excused for your behavior or actions. You can do what you want, or do nothing at all. Either way, karma will carry out it's duty.
Nahh, but Buddhism has alot of truth in it. Except for the whole 'void' thing.
the way you descride fate Vyasadeva is contradictory, you're saying that everything that a person does is ment to be, and is foreseen, yet a a person has his own will to choose with path they will go on? i don't see how that a person can be judged for there actions if what is ment to be, is ment to be.
It isn't contradictory, it's just very difficult to see the illusory nature of this material world.
For example, if you have a stick in a glass of water, it *appears* to be bent. But the reality is that the stick is straight. Similarly, we *appear* to be the one's in control of our destiny and we *appear* to be the doers of actions, but the reality is that all is being carried out by material nature, and we are simply the OBSERVERS of this action.
As far as "judgement" is concerned, it is simple. There are laws, and we can either break them or abide by them. If we abide by them, what judgement should we fear? If we break them, then we can expect to suffer the punishment, no?
For example, if you have a stick in a glass of water, it *appears* to be bent. But the reality is that the stick is straight. Similarly, we *appear* to be the one's in control of our destiny and we *appear* to be the doers of actions, but the reality is that all is being carried out by material nature, and we are simply the OBSERVERS of this action.
As far as "judgement" is concerned, it is simple. There are laws, and we can either break them or abide by them. If we abide by them, what judgement should we fear? If we break them, then we can expect to suffer the punishment, no?
Are you trying to say that our senses do not give us accurate knowledge of reality?
If you have what appears to be a straight stick outside of water, then place it in water, it LOOKS bent in water. What is your point? One doesnt assume the stick is bent, only that it APPEARS bent when placed in water.
Your stating that a stick looks straight at one time and in one respect (out of water), but looks bent at another time and in another respect (in water). You must remember the context. We are perceiving the stick through two different mediums, air and water. Since light travels more slowly through water then through air, it takes longer for the light waves to reach our eyes from the submerged portion. What we are perceiving is simply a straight stick that appers bent in a specific context and nothing more.
If you have what appears to be a straight stick outside of water, then place it in water, it LOOKS bent in water. What is your point? One doesnt assume the stick is bent, only that it APPEARS bent when placed in water.
Your stating that a stick looks straight at one time and in one respect (out of water), but looks bent at another time and in another respect (in water). You must remember the context. We are perceiving the stick through two different mediums, air and water. Since light travels more slowly through water then through air, it takes longer for the light waves to reach our eyes from the submerged portion. What we are perceiving is simply a straight stick that appers bent in a specific context and nothing more.
odog - nah I aint female.
2-0-sixx -
No, I aint saying that. However the axiomatic truth is that our senses are imperfect and therefore they CANNOT give us perfect knowledge empirically. To receive perfect knowledge one must use deductive knowledge and hear from the proper source.
Exactly, and just like the stick *APPEARS* to be bent, it *APPEARS* that we are alone in the universe and there is no higher power controlling things.
The bend in the stick is an illusion, and so is the thought that fate is nonexistent. Just like the illusion of the stick can be explained, so can the illusion of complete randomness and existentialism.
You are exactly right. And in the same manner, a person who thinks that his "Self" is his body, is also viewing life through a faulty perception.
Let's say you are standing in line at the bank. You been waiting in line for 25 minutes. As you get close to the teller, all of the sudden your body decides it has to piss immediately.
Now think about it, *YOU* don't want to get out of line to take a piss, but your body is demanding it. And when you get to the bathroom and start pissing, you can see that *YOU* are not actually pissing, but your body is. *YOU* are not your body, therefore the actions carried out by your body are not being carried out by *YOU*.
Therefore the illusion is that "I am the doer" "I am the enjoyer" "I am the creator". Furthermore, a person mistakenly assumes that there is no such thing as fate and that everything is chaotic and completely random, with no underlying purpose. These are all illusions, because things are actually being carried out by the hands of material nature.
2-0-sixx -
No, I aint saying that. However the axiomatic truth is that our senses are imperfect and therefore they CANNOT give us perfect knowledge empirically. To receive perfect knowledge one must use deductive knowledge and hear from the proper source.
Exactly, and just like the stick *APPEARS* to be bent, it *APPEARS* that we are alone in the universe and there is no higher power controlling things.
The bend in the stick is an illusion, and so is the thought that fate is nonexistent. Just like the illusion of the stick can be explained, so can the illusion of complete randomness and existentialism.
You are exactly right. And in the same manner, a person who thinks that his "Self" is his body, is also viewing life through a faulty perception.
Let's say you are standing in line at the bank. You been waiting in line for 25 minutes. As you get close to the teller, all of the sudden your body decides it has to piss immediately.
Now think about it, *YOU* don't want to get out of line to take a piss, but your body is demanding it. And when you get to the bathroom and start pissing, you can see that *YOU* are not actually pissing, but your body is. *YOU* are not your body, therefore the actions carried out by your body are not being carried out by *YOU*.
Therefore the illusion is that "I am the doer" "I am the enjoyer" "I am the creator". Furthermore, a person mistakenly assumes that there is no such thing as fate and that everything is chaotic and completely random, with no underlying purpose. These are all illusions, because things are actually being carried out by the hands of material nature.
Our senses may be imperfect,(if you say so), but that is the only way us humans are able to receive knowledge. If you claim to have discovered a new means of perception, I am perfectly willing to listen to this claim, provided that you are willing to argue for this assertion. Perhaps man possesses perceptual powers that we are presently unaware of. I dont see any evidence for this, but I'll grant the possibility for artgument sake. My arguement with you is that you claim to know there is a god. Then please explain to me the precess by which you, a physical organism, experienced this supernatural being. I wont limit you to the traditional five senses, but I will demand that you present evidence for your new perceptual powers.
No believer in god has ever succeeded in explaining how he percieves his mysterious god. They all claim to have knowledge of a mysterious, unkowable being, having gained this knowledge in some mysterious, unkowable manner. This is totally unacceptable.
The stick is NOT an illusion, I have already explained that you. If I were to place that same stick in a glass of tar, would you then be suprised because part of the stick had "disappeared"?? Would this be an illusion? Of course not. It is through our senses and ONLY our senses that we understand that the stick is in tar, and it is through our senses that we discover that light will not penetrate tar. In other words, it is through our senses that we gather the information with which to explain why the same object appears differently under different conditions.
Yes I AM pissing! Throughout history, we have learned that our brain functions as our main processing unit. It is in our brain where we think. A physical part of the body. I know that these words that I am thinking are because of my BRAIN. MY brain is INSIDE of MY BODY. There is NO illusion here! If I had serious damage on a certain part of my brain, doctors could pin point that area and conclude how I will be affected. There no mystory or illusion about that, its simply called science.
No believer in god has ever succeeded in explaining how he percieves his mysterious god. They all claim to have knowledge of a mysterious, unkowable being, having gained this knowledge in some mysterious, unkowable manner. This is totally unacceptable.
The stick is NOT an illusion, I have already explained that you. If I were to place that same stick in a glass of tar, would you then be suprised because part of the stick had "disappeared"?? Would this be an illusion? Of course not. It is through our senses and ONLY our senses that we understand that the stick is in tar, and it is through our senses that we discover that light will not penetrate tar. In other words, it is through our senses that we gather the information with which to explain why the same object appears differently under different conditions.
Yes I AM pissing! Throughout history, we have learned that our brain functions as our main processing unit. It is in our brain where we think. A physical part of the body. I know that these words that I am thinking are because of my BRAIN. MY brain is INSIDE of MY BODY. There is NO illusion here! If I had serious damage on a certain part of my brain, doctors could pin point that area and conclude how I will be affected. There no mystory or illusion about that, its simply called science.
@2-0-Sixx
C'mon man! What difference is it going to make whether we tell you our experiences of God or not? How is that going to prove anything to you?
As a skeptic you won't except anything outside of your pre-established premise for reality. You perceive God equivilant to the tooth fairy. You bound God with your concepts. To understanding God, I suggest you take it step by step. I have suggested this to you before. Remember my very first post to you in your thread "why do you believe in God?"? At the moment you are rebelling the idea of God with certain human traits acquired to Him/Her. Once you can accept the fullness of reality instead of living by only what you see, you may begin to head in that direction. Once again, take it step by step. Start by looking at reality at an objective point of view. The same way I approached you in my first message. Stop limiting your idea of God to some image of form in your mind. Understand the fundamentals first then you will be on your way to understanding the "personality" of God. Attempting to jump from being atheist to believing in (a human-like) God takes a lot of faith which I am not sure you have............
C'mon man! What difference is it going to make whether we tell you our experiences of God or not? How is that going to prove anything to you?
As a skeptic you won't except anything outside of your pre-established premise for reality. You perceive God equivilant to the tooth fairy. You bound God with your concepts. To understanding God, I suggest you take it step by step. I have suggested this to you before. Remember my very first post to you in your thread "why do you believe in God?"? At the moment you are rebelling the idea of God with certain human traits acquired to Him/Her. Once you can accept the fullness of reality instead of living by only what you see, you may begin to head in that direction. Once again, take it step by step. Start by looking at reality at an objective point of view. The same way I approached you in my first message. Stop limiting your idea of God to some image of form in your mind. Understand the fundamentals first then you will be on your way to understanding the "personality" of God. Attempting to jump from being atheist to believing in (a human-like) God takes a lot of faith which I am not sure you have............
In conclusion, there is a marvelous anecdote from the occasion of Russell's ninetieth birthday that best serves to summarize his attitude toward God and religion. A London lady sat next to him at this party, and over the soup she suggested to him that he was not only the world's most famous atheist but, by this time, very probably the world's oldest atheist. "What will you do, Bertie, if it turns out you're wrong?" she asked. "I mean, what if--uh--when the time comes, you should meet Him? What will you say?" Russell was delighted with the question. His bright, birdlike eyes grew even brighter as he contemplated this possible future dialogue, and then he pointed a finger upward and cried, "Why, I should say, 'God, you gave us insufficient evidence.'"
Al Seckel, in Preface to Bertrand Russell on God and Religion
Al Seckel, in Preface to Bertrand Russell on God and Religion
What do you mean "If I say so"? This is an axiomatic self-evident truth. Are your senses perfect?
I never said they weren't.
I can only explain to you the means of attaining higher levels of consciousness, and while I'm sure you are willing to listen and argue, this is not the time or place to enter into such a discussion.
If you said that you made a snowman when you were 5 years old, why and how would I argue against that?
If I feel hunger within my body, why would you doubt me if I said I was hungry? And how can I prove it to you?
God is not something I can put in a box and send to you. God is REALIZED by a person who experiences and understands His existence.
This is a subject which is unrelated to fate, and which requires much discussion. Again, this is not the place for that.
The fact that you would "demand" something shows me that you are only interested in God if He fits into your prior opinions and preconceived notions. You will never know God that way, and with such a mentality it is simply impossible for anyone to present "evidence" which you would deem acceptable.
Your challenge is meaningless.
How the fuck am I supposed to take your argument seriously when you make claims like this? Are you aware that there have been BILLIONS of people on this planet before your arrival? Have you spoken to and debunked EVERY SINGLE LIVING THEIST'S claims on the face of the earth?
No? Then your statement is meaningless.
More nonsense. It is impossible for you to have talked to EVERY theist in existence, and furthermore, NOT EVERYONE claims that God is unknowable and mysterious. There are means by which one can know Him, but with presuppositions such as yours, YOU will be the one who does not know Him.
Your failure to perceive or understand God does not render Him nonexistent. There is an planet somewhere in deep space doing its thing, but I do not know its name or form or its chemical composition. My being ignorant of its particulars does not mean it isn't there.
I KNOW it isn't. The BEND in it is the illusion.
And your point is? I never said that you had to use something other than your senses to gather and interpret information.
No, your BODY is pissing.
This has been common knowledge for countless millenia.
Wrong. The MIND is where you think. The brain simply carries out regulatory functions, and the voluntary and involuntary actions that sustain the body.
If you did your thinking in your brain, then you would say "I got my brain made up". You don't say that, do you? More likely you say "I got my MIND made up".
And notice that when someone says "*I* got *MY* mind made up", the *I* that they are referring to is SEPARATE from the mind. The *I* is separate from the brain. The *I* is the Self, which is the unseen reality of each individual, the *I* is actually the soul.
Your MIND is not a physical thing, it is METAPHYSICAL. An x-ray of your head will reveal a brain, but it will NOT reveal a mind. But do you doubt that you have a mind simply because you cannot see it?
Your brain stores all your memories. Your MIND picks and chooses which memories to relive. Unless there is a separate component to your existence which is simultaneously present within your body, then YOU would not be choosing the memories and events of your life to remember. All that would be being carried out beyond your control, like the matrix.
METAPHYSICAL means "above the physical". Your mind is above your brain. And the intelligence you possess is above your mind. And the false ego which has you believing that *YOU* are your body is above even intelligence. And above the false ego lies the soul. False ego is the finest material element in existence. It is the first element our soul comes in contact with when we fall from the spiritual world.
They can diagnose particular afflictions, yes. Can they do so with 100% accuracy? No. Can those doctors explain consciousness and how it pervades your entire body? No. Can doctors look at your brain and see your memories? No. Can doctors look at your brain and see your mind? No.
There is plenty which is mystery and illusory. Science can explain much, but when it comes to the primal questions and concerns of man, it is pitifully silent.
I never said they weren't.
I can only explain to you the means of attaining higher levels of consciousness, and while I'm sure you are willing to listen and argue, this is not the time or place to enter into such a discussion.
If you said that you made a snowman when you were 5 years old, why and how would I argue against that?
If I feel hunger within my body, why would you doubt me if I said I was hungry? And how can I prove it to you?
God is not something I can put in a box and send to you. God is REALIZED by a person who experiences and understands His existence.
This is a subject which is unrelated to fate, and which requires much discussion. Again, this is not the place for that.
The fact that you would "demand" something shows me that you are only interested in God if He fits into your prior opinions and preconceived notions. You will never know God that way, and with such a mentality it is simply impossible for anyone to present "evidence" which you would deem acceptable.
Your challenge is meaningless.
How the fuck am I supposed to take your argument seriously when you make claims like this? Are you aware that there have been BILLIONS of people on this planet before your arrival? Have you spoken to and debunked EVERY SINGLE LIVING THEIST'S claims on the face of the earth?
No? Then your statement is meaningless.
More nonsense. It is impossible for you to have talked to EVERY theist in existence, and furthermore, NOT EVERYONE claims that God is unknowable and mysterious. There are means by which one can know Him, but with presuppositions such as yours, YOU will be the one who does not know Him.
Your failure to perceive or understand God does not render Him nonexistent. There is an planet somewhere in deep space doing its thing, but I do not know its name or form or its chemical composition. My being ignorant of its particulars does not mean it isn't there.
I KNOW it isn't. The BEND in it is the illusion.
And your point is? I never said that you had to use something other than your senses to gather and interpret information.
No, your BODY is pissing.
This has been common knowledge for countless millenia.
Wrong. The MIND is where you think. The brain simply carries out regulatory functions, and the voluntary and involuntary actions that sustain the body.
If you did your thinking in your brain, then you would say "I got my brain made up". You don't say that, do you? More likely you say "I got my MIND made up".
And notice that when someone says "*I* got *MY* mind made up", the *I* that they are referring to is SEPARATE from the mind. The *I* is separate from the brain. The *I* is the Self, which is the unseen reality of each individual, the *I* is actually the soul.
Your MIND is not a physical thing, it is METAPHYSICAL. An x-ray of your head will reveal a brain, but it will NOT reveal a mind. But do you doubt that you have a mind simply because you cannot see it?
Your brain stores all your memories. Your MIND picks and chooses which memories to relive. Unless there is a separate component to your existence which is simultaneously present within your body, then YOU would not be choosing the memories and events of your life to remember. All that would be being carried out beyond your control, like the matrix.
METAPHYSICAL means "above the physical". Your mind is above your brain. And the intelligence you possess is above your mind. And the false ego which has you believing that *YOU* are your body is above even intelligence. And above the false ego lies the soul. False ego is the finest material element in existence. It is the first element our soul comes in contact with when we fall from the spiritual world.
They can diagnose particular afflictions, yes. Can they do so with 100% accuracy? No. Can those doctors explain consciousness and how it pervades your entire body? No. Can doctors look at your brain and see your memories? No. Can doctors look at your brain and see your mind? No.
There is plenty which is mystery and illusory. Science can explain much, but when it comes to the primal questions and concerns of man, it is pitifully silent.
I admire the humor old Bertie displayed in that quote, but the sentiment he expressed is nonsense.
The evidence is overwhelming for God's existence, it simply depends on the sincerity of the person who wishes to know Him.
Bertrand Russel made a great case against "Christianity", but his arguments against the existence of God are elementary and easily defeated.
The evidence is overwhelming for God's existence, it simply depends on the sincerity of the person who wishes to know Him.
Bertrand Russel made a great case against "Christianity", but his arguments against the existence of God are elementary and easily defeated.