"We don’t care what color the oppressor is
It is the oppression that connects us for real"
An interview with Public Enemy (2003)
You have just come back from a show in Moscow. It was the first time the band visited that part of the globe. What are your impressions?
Chuck D: Moscow looks beaten down, a lot of people look like they have been exploited from the rich and the government leaders. Seems there is a gigantic division between the rich who are running wild and rampant and the poor who have to squander upon themselves. It’s the Wild, Wild East!
How do you explain the global appeal of your music, through time Public Enemy have evolved into a worldwide symbol of resistance?
Griff: It’s simply ’cause we speak a common language, like a common thread. You see, the same thing that a person might go through in Belgrade a brother might be going through in St. Louis, some other cat might be going through that in China, so a lot of times you can speak of one or two things that all the oppressed people are going through and the basic common thing, that we all got, is that we are all oppressed. Rulers build states for their sake, not for the sake of the people. There is a saying we have in America. It goes “I am because we are, and therefore I am” you understand. So you can use things that Malcolm X spoke about decades ago and still apply them today, which is sad ’cause it shows things have not changed much basically. Now, we might have different faces of oppressors, our oppressor might be the white man in America and that whole system, your oppressor might be that white man’s brother right here, but it’s the same oppression, so we don’t care what color the oppressor is; it is the oppression that connects us for real.
Chuck D: The human family – the many - is controlled by the few. The few control the human family and exploit it in many ways and Public Enemy speaks against that - Fight The Power says it all. If you can’t get an equal treatment from the situation that governs you, well then you want to go against that.
Most of the band grew up in the sixties. How did events that happened in the streets at that time influence your understanding of the world and music?
Griff: The sixties in America were very turbulent, very violent, explosive years. You had the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. King, doing what they did, then on the other hand you had the Black Panther Party, then Nation of Islam, you had militant organisations trying to speak out about how and why we are being oppressed. Watching this and seeing things unfold is going to affect you. It’s impossible to see people getting shot, police dogs sitting on them, people mistreated in the streets and not get affected. Gill Scott Heron said “The Revolution Will not be Televised”, well in that case it was ’cause we seen it on TV. Then you had groups like The Watts Prophets and The Last Poets singing about that on our street corners, doing poetry about it, you had numerous groups who spoke about the ills of our people. Growing up and watching it you wanted to go out and do something, but I was too young back then. So, when my time came, when the time came for me to do something for the struggle I did it with my words and music, so the main question now is what is the younger generation doing to continue the struggle? Public Enemy has been on that path for years.
Chuck D: The sixties represent a collective struggle, it was a build up of 40-50 years of people experiencing hypocrisy and then they said “we are not going to take it anymore”. I’m a child from the sixties and I was conscious of a lot of movements in New York around me at that time, I had parents who were very aware.
How do you see the future of the United States?
Griff: I think America is going to have a turbulent future, the next president is going to catch hell. Bush has set the pick for the next president. Everything that Bush is doing now unavoidably has to backfire, and I think we are going to see the decay of America, slowly but surely. The people will rise up in their own way and they will take it back. The American system was already overthrown in the last election. We call it the last “se-lection”, because Bush wasn’t elected. He was selected by those who wanted to put him in power to push forward their agenda. So, all of that is going to backfire and I’m sad because the rap artists are not speaking up. Young people are listening to them, but they are not speaking up in these crucial times.
The Corporate Media has been one of the main targets in your rhymes?
Griff: Well if you spell media M-E-D-I-A. Multi-Ethnic-Destruction-In-America, see what I’m saying? That’s their main purpose; their main purpose is control. Control the minds of the people. If you control the minds of the people, then you make a statistical poll measuring how popular the president really is, you get something like: “62 percent of Americans support Bush Junior” – no! that’s bullshit. They are dumbing American people down with talk shows, playing the same videos over and over again, by sound bytes in the news. So, it’s definitely control, it’s mind control.
Has the media stereotype of a black person progressed since the beginning of the century and the days of the minstrels?
Chuck D: Nope, not much difference to me, only that nowadays minstrels are broadcasted worldwide.
Chuck, you often point out the history of exploitation of black musical expression by white record label executives and lawyers. It seems like a pattern since the days of Jazz. You once mentioned you would be glad to act as a head of the union for the hip hop artists?
Chuck D: Yes, I would like to lead a union for the hip hop world, but first you have to recognise that you have problems, you have to recognise that there is a need to band together for your existence and I don’t think a lot of hip hop artists recognize that. I think the lack of knowledge of self, severely hampers the understanding of who you are as a musician. If they don’t know who they are as a person then how the hell they gonna know what they are supposed to do and how to relate to each other?
Could you explain the concept behind the “Hazy Shade Of Criminal”? You go so far to mention Emanuel Noriega in that song to prove the point.
Chuck D: That song questions who is the real criminal. Are you gonna blame the people who are poor and try to make ends meet so they cross the line of criminality in order to survive, or you gonna look up at the top of the food chain and reveal the ones who set up those laws anyway in the face of criminality? So there is a real thin line between the “criminals” and the “good guys” for real.
How do you see the current state of hip hop. There is a huge gap between what is happening in the streets and what these rappers talk about in their rhymes?
Griff: Some people call that “cultural distraction”. If you watch TV for an hour you will say “look black people are living good!” You see the cars and women and food but the reality is that we don’t. The masses of black people in the US are poor, jobless, hungry, with no shelter. That guy driving through the neghborhood like that, all “bling blingin” with his jewelry is likely to get robbed. You can’t live up there and promote that stuff. No that is dangerous.
Do you feel a bit angry at the white liberal press who dismissed Muse-Sick-N-Hour-Mess-Age as a bad album in a crucial moment in the struggle for Hip hop, even though it’s clear it was a very important album from this perspective?
It is the oppression that connects us for real"
An interview with Public Enemy (2003)
You have just come back from a show in Moscow. It was the first time the band visited that part of the globe. What are your impressions?
Chuck D: Moscow looks beaten down, a lot of people look like they have been exploited from the rich and the government leaders. Seems there is a gigantic division between the rich who are running wild and rampant and the poor who have to squander upon themselves. It’s the Wild, Wild East!
How do you explain the global appeal of your music, through time Public Enemy have evolved into a worldwide symbol of resistance?
Griff: It’s simply ’cause we speak a common language, like a common thread. You see, the same thing that a person might go through in Belgrade a brother might be going through in St. Louis, some other cat might be going through that in China, so a lot of times you can speak of one or two things that all the oppressed people are going through and the basic common thing, that we all got, is that we are all oppressed. Rulers build states for their sake, not for the sake of the people. There is a saying we have in America. It goes “I am because we are, and therefore I am” you understand. So you can use things that Malcolm X spoke about decades ago and still apply them today, which is sad ’cause it shows things have not changed much basically. Now, we might have different faces of oppressors, our oppressor might be the white man in America and that whole system, your oppressor might be that white man’s brother right here, but it’s the same oppression, so we don’t care what color the oppressor is; it is the oppression that connects us for real.
Chuck D: The human family – the many - is controlled by the few. The few control the human family and exploit it in many ways and Public Enemy speaks against that - Fight The Power says it all. If you can’t get an equal treatment from the situation that governs you, well then you want to go against that.
Most of the band grew up in the sixties. How did events that happened in the streets at that time influence your understanding of the world and music?
Griff: The sixties in America were very turbulent, very violent, explosive years. You had the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. King, doing what they did, then on the other hand you had the Black Panther Party, then Nation of Islam, you had militant organisations trying to speak out about how and why we are being oppressed. Watching this and seeing things unfold is going to affect you. It’s impossible to see people getting shot, police dogs sitting on them, people mistreated in the streets and not get affected. Gill Scott Heron said “The Revolution Will not be Televised”, well in that case it was ’cause we seen it on TV. Then you had groups like The Watts Prophets and The Last Poets singing about that on our street corners, doing poetry about it, you had numerous groups who spoke about the ills of our people. Growing up and watching it you wanted to go out and do something, but I was too young back then. So, when my time came, when the time came for me to do something for the struggle I did it with my words and music, so the main question now is what is the younger generation doing to continue the struggle? Public Enemy has been on that path for years.
Chuck D: The sixties represent a collective struggle, it was a build up of 40-50 years of people experiencing hypocrisy and then they said “we are not going to take it anymore”. I’m a child from the sixties and I was conscious of a lot of movements in New York around me at that time, I had parents who were very aware.
How do you see the future of the United States?
Griff: I think America is going to have a turbulent future, the next president is going to catch hell. Bush has set the pick for the next president. Everything that Bush is doing now unavoidably has to backfire, and I think we are going to see the decay of America, slowly but surely. The people will rise up in their own way and they will take it back. The American system was already overthrown in the last election. We call it the last “se-lection”, because Bush wasn’t elected. He was selected by those who wanted to put him in power to push forward their agenda. So, all of that is going to backfire and I’m sad because the rap artists are not speaking up. Young people are listening to them, but they are not speaking up in these crucial times.
The Corporate Media has been one of the main targets in your rhymes?
Griff: Well if you spell media M-E-D-I-A. Multi-Ethnic-Destruction-In-America, see what I’m saying? That’s their main purpose; their main purpose is control. Control the minds of the people. If you control the minds of the people, then you make a statistical poll measuring how popular the president really is, you get something like: “62 percent of Americans support Bush Junior” – no! that’s bullshit. They are dumbing American people down with talk shows, playing the same videos over and over again, by sound bytes in the news. So, it’s definitely control, it’s mind control.
Has the media stereotype of a black person progressed since the beginning of the century and the days of the minstrels?
Chuck D: Nope, not much difference to me, only that nowadays minstrels are broadcasted worldwide.
Chuck, you often point out the history of exploitation of black musical expression by white record label executives and lawyers. It seems like a pattern since the days of Jazz. You once mentioned you would be glad to act as a head of the union for the hip hop artists?
Chuck D: Yes, I would like to lead a union for the hip hop world, but first you have to recognise that you have problems, you have to recognise that there is a need to band together for your existence and I don’t think a lot of hip hop artists recognize that. I think the lack of knowledge of self, severely hampers the understanding of who you are as a musician. If they don’t know who they are as a person then how the hell they gonna know what they are supposed to do and how to relate to each other?
Could you explain the concept behind the “Hazy Shade Of Criminal”? You go so far to mention Emanuel Noriega in that song to prove the point.
Chuck D: That song questions who is the real criminal. Are you gonna blame the people who are poor and try to make ends meet so they cross the line of criminality in order to survive, or you gonna look up at the top of the food chain and reveal the ones who set up those laws anyway in the face of criminality? So there is a real thin line between the “criminals” and the “good guys” for real.
How do you see the current state of hip hop. There is a huge gap between what is happening in the streets and what these rappers talk about in their rhymes?
Griff: Some people call that “cultural distraction”. If you watch TV for an hour you will say “look black people are living good!” You see the cars and women and food but the reality is that we don’t. The masses of black people in the US are poor, jobless, hungry, with no shelter. That guy driving through the neghborhood like that, all “bling blingin” with his jewelry is likely to get robbed. You can’t live up there and promote that stuff. No that is dangerous.
Do you feel a bit angry at the white liberal press who dismissed Muse-Sick-N-Hour-Mess-Age as a bad album in a crucial moment in the struggle for Hip hop, even though it’s clear it was a very important album from this perspective?