Does Religion Make You Nice? Does Atheism make you mean?

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Oct 30, 2002
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#2
In his new book, Society Without God, Phil Zuckerman looks at the Danes and the Swedes—probably the most godless people on Earth. They don't go to church or pray in the privacy of their own homes; they don't believe in God or heaven or hell. But, by any reasonable standard, they're nice to one another. They have a famously expansive welfare and health care service. They have a strong commitment to social equality. And—even without belief in a God looming over them—they murder and rape one another significantly less frequently than Americans do.

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Oct 20, 2008
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atheism doesn't make you mean, and religion doesn't make you nice. Ive met some pretty fucked up religous people and also met one of the nicest people who just so happened to be an atheist. so that willl prove it for me. it doesn't matter. people would say that they wouldn't want an athiest in the white house simply because many would picture some physco dressed in all black with anarchy symbols all over.
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#4
If the belief in the existence of God makes people nicer because they think they are being watched, then how genuine is this niceness? On the other hand, if the atheist is nice without thinking there is some great authority that oversees what they do, then doesn't that seem more noble?

I think it is possible for a genuine sense of niceness to evolve in a theist. It would come from a real understanding of the relationship all souls have with each other through God. It wouldn't come about just because people thought they were being watched for good behavior.
 

ThaG

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Jun 30, 2005
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#6
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/...s/2007/10/for_good_people_to_go_evil_thi.html

Logical Path from Religious Beliefs to Evil Deeds

Nobody is suggesting that all religious people are violent, intolerant, racist, bigoted, contemptuous of women and so on. It would be absurd to suggest such a thing: just as absurd as to generalize about all atheists. I am not even concerned with statistical generalizations about the majority of religious people (or atheists). My concern here is over whether there is any general reason why religion might be more or less likely to bias individuals towards all those unpleasant things in Christopher Hitchens’s list: to make them more likely to exhibit them than they would have been without religion. I think the answer is yes.

Religion changes, for people, the definition of good. Atheists and humanists tend to define good and bad deeds in terms of the welfare and suffering of others. Murder, torture, and cruelty are bad because they cause people to suffer. Most religious people think them bad, too, but some religions (for example the religion of the Taliban) sanction all of them under some circumstances. For non-religious people, the behavior of consenting adults in a private bedroom is the business of nobody else, and is not bad unless it causes suffering – for example by breaking up a happy family. But many religions arrogate to themselves the right to decide that certain kinds of sexual behavior, even if they do no harm to anyone, are wrong.

The actions of the Taliban, their vile bullying of women, their sanctimonious hatred of all that might lead to enjoyment, their violence, their ignorant bigotry, their hatred of education, their cruelty, seem to me to be as close to pure evil as anything I can imagine. Yet, by the lights of their own religion they are supremely righteous – really good people.

The nineteen men of 9/11, having washed, perfumed themselves and shaved their whole bodies in preparation for the martyr’s paradise, believed they were performing the highest religious duty. By the lights of their religion they were as good as it is possible to be. They were not poor, downtrodden, oppressed or psychotic; they were well educated, sane and well balanced, and, as they thought, supremely good. But they were religious, and that provided all the justification they needed to murder and destroy. Their madrassas and their mullahs had given them good reason to think they were on a fast track to paradise.

Polls suggest that 13% of British Muslims regard the 7/7 London bombers as blessed martyrs. Neighbors and friends expressed bewilderment that such nice, gentle, kind, youth-clubbing, cricket-loving young men could do such terrible things. But once you understand what they truly and sincerely believed – that it was Allah’s will that they blow up buses and subways – it becomes all too easy to understand.

It is easy for religious faith, even if it is irrational in itself, to lead a sane and decent person, by rational, logical steps, to do terrible things. There is a logical path from religious faith to evil deeds. There is no logical path from atheism to evil deeds. Of course, many evil deeds are done by individuals who happen to be atheists. But it can never be rational to say that, because of my nonbelief in religion, it would be good to be cruel, to murder, to oppress women, or to perpetrate any of the evils on the Hitchens list.

The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg has become well known, but it is so devastatingly true that it is worth quoting again and again: “With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#7
I don't think it's fair to compare religion and atheism in this way because religion constitutes a belief and atheism constitutes a nonbelief. Even if a million atheists in the course of history killed billions of people, it will always be a "happen to be atheists" situation because we don't tend to correlate action with a person's nonbelief. People don't kill based on their lack of an ideal. That makes no sense.
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#9
I work for a local government. 1 of the Engineers here at my job said the meanest person he ever met was a Preacher of a big church that the city was going to do work by. He said he literally watched him switch personalities of being a preacher and being a mean asshole.

I am an Atheist. I am nice.

5000
 

ThaG

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Jun 30, 2005
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#11
I don't think it's fair to compare religion and atheism in this way because religion constitutes a belief and atheism constitutes a nonbelief. Even if a million atheists in the course of history killed billions of people, it will always be a "happen to be atheists" situation because we don't tend to correlate action with a person's nonbelief. People don't kill based on their lack of an ideal. That makes no sense.
Atheism isn't "lack of an ideal" but in general you're right.

I would mention that people do kill because of their beliefs though
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#12
Atheism isn't "lack of an ideal" but in general you're right.

I would mention that people do kill because of their beliefs though
Atheism pertains to nothing but the lack of belief in god(s). Secular humanists might have some positive ideals and they might all be atheists, but not all atheists are necessarily secular humanists. Once again, so far as atheism goes, it only pertains to the lack of belief in god(s). So by saying that people don't kill based on the lack of an ideal, I am saying that people don't kill because of their lack of belief in god. So whatever reason for which a person kills, if they are atheist, that will always be seen as happenstance. It is rather definitional, and for that reason, I don't see the comparison being on an even keel.
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#13
In other words, it is, by definition, impossible for there to be "evil atheists." Rather, there would only ever be "atheists who happen to do evil things" or "evil people who happen to be atheists."

On the other hand, since theism constitutes a positive standpoint, there can be such a thing as an "evil theist" granted one performs an evil act on the basis of ones positively asserted theism.

However, I suppose it could always be argued that their evilness contradicts their stance as a theist. Then again, there might be a "no true scotsman" fallacy in the playing cards.
 
Apr 8, 2005
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this goes both ways, anything that can separate people (christians to non christians) and make one group feel as if they are above the other, will cause negative outcomes. however christians that ive seen done really go too over the top due to the fear of hell.

atheists are usually good, and most commonly, really educated people. so i wouldnt say they are mean.
 

Ry

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Apr 25, 2002
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#15
  • Ry

    Ry

Some of the nicest people I have known are well educated with good paying careers. With this being said, I think the more educated someone is, the less likely they are to believe in god, so perhaps there is a connection between being an atheist and being nice?! Whereas people with no education that are stupid tend to put more attention in religion and god because they dont have much else going for them. Just a thought on the subject...
 
Jun 27, 2003
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#17
yup. some of the most fucked up people ive met were christians, but some of them were athiests. You cant judge a person solely on their beliefs
But can you judge a belief system on its acts? Such as the crusades, and the jihadists? Would those people still kill like they do if not for their belief system? How about the people around the world today who kill eachother over their respective belief systems. If they didn't believe in their version of God, would they still kill eachother?
 
Jan 31, 2008
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^in the end they believe they are doing good. So being right or wrong is in the end subjective (as is every mother fucking thing else).
Those who i would consider mean or nice and those such intentions.
We all live according to our own beliefs and standards, its what we obey to ourselves that decides on what side of the line we stand.
 

ThaG

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Jun 30, 2005
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#19
^in the end they believe they are doing good. So being right or wrong is in the end subjective (as is every mother fucking thing else).
Those who i would consider mean or nice and those such intentions.
We all live according to our own beliefs and standards, its what we obey to ourselves that decides on what side of the line we stand.
Do people who do wrong believing believe they do good who do so out of ignorance and refusal to get educated have the right to be excused for that???