Boxing Fans and The Rocky Balboa Syndrome

trips · Sep 21, 2009

I made this thread after i came on this site as well as others, to talk on the Mayweather fight and unsurprisingly saw many people again critscizing Mayweather and discrediting his win as nothing more than a expected victory and a fighter in Marquez who was shrewdly picked by Mayweather as a punching bag. I can't say i was surprised with these sentiments for the simple reason that many boxing fans are fickle, and thing there is nothing more to boxing than exchanging punches whether taking it or dishing it out, defensive tactics is nothing more than what a boxer does to take the easy route out.

Many people were quick to dismiss Marquez as an unworthy challenge and again labelled Mayweather as a coward for picking a lesser fighter, even though these same people were syaing not so long ago that Marquez would give Maywether a fight, afterall in Marquez you had a boxer that was ranked the 2nd best pound for pound boxer in the world, yet people were quick to come in with thier excuses i.e "He was too light", "Mayweather cherry picked his opponent. he should of fought Pacquiao" which is ironic cause it was Marquez that nearly beat Manny on two occasions, and if were talking about weight Pacquiao is not much more bigger than Marquez? so that point goes out the window and has no basis to survive.

Lets not for one second get this wrong, Boxing fans love a story, a story that involves a boxer who gets beaten to a near death only to rise like a phoenix and defeat the bigger, more agressive opponent, the stuff which rocky balboa is made off, one of the main reasons why Thriller In Manilla was such a big fight, many boxing fans are fickle and do not conisider a boxing match a good one unless both or at least one of the boxers ends the fight looking beaten bloodied and in a terrible state.

Which is why in Mayewather they have a conondrum, for the simple reason that Mayweather does not get hurt cut beaten to a bloddy pulp every fight, he does not show any heart, no fighting spirit, he does not show the ability to get kncok down many times but still end up winning the fight, he does not show the bulldog spirit shown in movies portrayed by Sly Stallone, why? you may ask..... because he simply does not need to. In Mayweather you got arguably the most technical fighter in the history of the sport, a master tacticain, a boxer in every pure form, a boxer who does not go into very fight hoping to end up looking like a walking corpse after it, in fact no boxer goes in to a fight hoping this, but many do cause they simply do not have the skill to avoid such a fate, Mayweather does, and in the history of boxing we have seen very fighters like this, he finishs every fight like he just went for a light jog, while fans and pundits alike yearn for him to come out looking like Evander Holyfield after every fight.

Its simple it doesn't matter whoever Mayweather fights( and he only has Manny Mosley and maybe Cotto who are worthy competitors left) there will always be excuses made for the fighter he comprehensively beats , why? because fans don't want to see a masterclass they want to see a fast paced less skilled brawl and Money simply does not offer that, at the end of the day, if Mayeather eventually beats them the excuses would be "Manny was too small in the first place", "Mosley is too old, he should of fight him a few years ago"(but he did want to, but a certain someone had a tooth ache) while under rated by fans and pundits, Mayweather would always be revered by his fellow proffesionals, cause it is them that truly understands the skill that enables Mayweather to do what he does, to comprehensively provide a boxing masterclass is not easy, and even if the fickel fans do not see this, the boxers on the end of the drubbing will, if they do not feel it first.

Its time to let go off the Rocky Balboa syndrome, when greatness is in your presence it doesn't have to neccasrily look like Evander Holyfield or Speak like Ali.

MOREBASS · Sep 21, 2009

trips said:

It was an expected victory, and I do believe that Marquez was hand picked for the sake of making Mayweather look like he did in the fight. It worked.

It isn't hardcore boxing fans that make these fights as big as they are. It is the casual fan who does this...and naturally, when people watch a boxing match, they want to see a fight. I'm a longtime boxing fan, and I'll take a brutal fight over a boxing clinic any day.

He was an unworthy challenge from the beginning. Mostly because even at lightweight, where he only fought twice, he looked very vulnerable and that it should probably be the last weight class he moved up to, in order to stay effective.

I don't know anyone who knows boxing who gave Marquez a chance in hell. Sure, Marquez fans and people who didn't know any better thought that he might stand a chance, but personally, I knew it was a mismatch from the beginning.

Also, the 2nd best POUND FOR POUND ranking doesn't mean shit, when the POUND FOR POUND is taken away. Marquez had no business fighting at welterweight, and what's sad is that Mayweather tried to use the POUND FOR POUND term as a way to make it seem like him choosing Marquez was based on his talent. But in reality, they knew it was a complete mismatch from the beginning, and didn't even attempt to make the agreed 144lbs catch weight.

The triangle theory is dumb. Styles make fights. But what can be said is that Manny had already proven that he could be effective in a higher weight class. He carried his speed up, and seemed to have carried his power up with him.

Marquez had only fought at 135 twice, and although he won both fights, it looked as if lightweight should have been it for him, at most.

I don't think it has anything to do with this Rocky Balboa syndrome as much as it has to do with the fact that casual fans simply think that Mayweather's style is boring, and not entertaining to watch, and especially not entertaining enough to pay for.

I can appreciate his talent, but would simply like to see him take more risks, as far as fighitng someone who actually will give him a good fight. But obviously, MONEY IS KING, so whatever makes the most dollars makes the most sense to TEAM MAYWEATHER. Sad, IMO...because I think that Floyd is one of the greatest boxing talents of our generation, if not THE greatest, and it sucks that we might not have even seen his greatest potential reached because he was unwilling to risk what was necessary.

2-0-Sixx · Sep 21, 2009

Excellent post.

Most people thought Mayweather would win, but most people believe it was going to be a tough fight for Mayweather. The Ring Magazine, which is the most respected out of any boxing outlet, predicted a very close fight with Mayweather pulling a head in the final two rounds and winning an unpopular decision. Myself included thought it would be a tough fight.

Not too many people predicted a COMPLETE shut out and Floyd winning 12 out of 12 rounds. No one predicted Marquez would land 65 punches out of 570 thrown (or whatever the exact number was). No one predicted the most punches marquez would land in a single round was 8. Etc.

For Floyd to have been gone for TWO YEARS and destroy a top level fighter like Marquez, regardless of the weight difference, IS impressive.

Marquez also called out Mayweather, lets not forget.

In addition, most fighters who have a long layoff take an easy fight. They'll fight a complete BUM before taking on a challenge. Well, call this mayweather's tune up fight if you'd like.

Next up he has Pacquiao/Cotto winner or Shane Mosley so no one can really say shit after he fights/beats them.

And regarding his style, it's true, a lot of people expect that just because he's the best he's going to be like Mike Tyson, and they get turned off. Mayweather is a PURE boxer, his goal is to hit and not be hit. That's exactly what he does. Pernell Whitaker was one of the greatest fighters of all time and lots of people didn't really enjoy watching him fight for the same reasons, he was a pure boxer.

Everyone loves brawls, everyone wants to see Arturo Gatti type fighters. Well there's a reason the Gatti's of the sport rarely go to far in their careers; they take too much punishment. People love miguel cotto. Shit, he's 28 years old and I'm willing to bet he's shot by the age of 30.

MR. CLEEN · Sep 21, 2009

The only people who think Floyd's style is boring are people who don't like Floyd Mayweather period. They want to see Floyd get his clock cleaned so they don't see the artistry in the way this man fights. Floyd fights in the middle of the ring for the most part and still doesn't get hit. Floyd doesn't run, he reacts by ducking and dodging punches, or rolling his shoulders which is what a fighter is supposed to do. The problem is Floyd is a remarkable talent that makes what he does look too easy, but the fact that there is only one mayweather should tell you he is in a class all by himself.

MOREBASS · Sep 21, 2009

You know, I have nothing against Floyd, and have been a fan since he was absolutely running the lightweight division a few years back...and I think he's the greatest boxing talent of our generation, and hands down one of the best athletes in any sport today.

I just would love to see him take more risks, not in the ring, but as far as his opposition. I have only had to see him dig deep for one fight, which was the first Castillo fight, and I think that we haven't even seen his full potential for the fact that he doesn't even need to use it to win fights.

I wish he would've gotten the attention he deserved, before he had to resort to being this egotistical moron, who's only concern is the amount written on his check at the end of a fight.

The one thing I did take from Saturday's fight is the fact that even after a 2 year layoff, and coming back at the age of 32, physically...Floyd hasn't lost a step whatsoever and can still compete with the game's elite, without a doubt.

My dream match at this point would be a Mayweather-Paul Williams fight, though I know it would likely never happen.

IronLungs420 · Sep 21, 2009

seriously another mayweather thread?

Rumpelstiltskin · Sep 21, 2009

I understand Mayweather's style.
I just appreciate it when it is executed by Paulie Malignaggi or Chris Byrd.
Paulie goes in there with the likes of Cotto and Diaz.
Byrd goes to Germany and throws with Klitschko.

Mayweather waits till the smoke is clear and jumps in.
He's always talking about "where was so and so when I said this".
Where the hell was Floyd when Spadafora wanted him at 135?
Where the hell was Floyd when Tsyzu was calling him out at 140?
Where the hell was Floyd when Margarito & Shane were calling him out at 147?

He was taking pay days. Which is completely fine. Yet, tell it like it is. You beat the best at 135 this weekend. OK, and?

I was trying to be cool about the whole Floyd thing, but NO article is going to convince me of 10 years of ducking patterns.

2-0-Sixx · Sep 21, 2009

^^^Mosley had two opportunities to fight Floyd and shane was like "I got a toothache!"

Spadafora?! LOL

Tsyzu was out being injured.

Rumpelstiltskin · Sep 21, 2009

2-0-Sixx said:

Mosley turned down Floyd 3 years ago and he was completely active during that time. I'm not big for internet articles but I've never even heard the toothache one till now. I doubt it's really true.

Spadafora would have given Floyd a run for his money. That would have been a huge fight. 2 undefeated fighters...1 white and 1 black. Don't make me post up their sparring session! Where Spadafora gave him a lesson for 5 rounds till Floyd collapsed on the ground. Haha...

Tsyzu was also active. Being the undisputed champ and taking 1 to 2 fights a year in 2000 up until 2005. Previous to that he was fighting 3 times a year. I really don't recall any major injury that kept him out of the game.

2-0-Sixx · Sep 21, 2009

714KaliHydro said:

Here is a video since you don't like articles:

This is after Floyd was calling out Mosley to fight, fast forward to 2:15

You can clearly see how uncomfortable shane was when asked if he will fight floyd now, he's talking about taking vacations, his tooth hurts, maybe floyd should fight margarito instead lol. sounds like he didn't want it back then.

Rumpelstiltskin · Sep 21, 2009

Shane didn't want to fight in November, regardless of who it was. He says it towards the end of this interview. Not even Margarito for $8 million. I give you credit for the vid, but I think there was some validity to his excuse. It's really not even that big of a deal, it's what's going on today that counts.

MOREBASS · Sep 22, 2009

Doug Fischer of Ring Magazine said:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.’s dominating unanimous decision over Juan Manuel Marquez was impressive.

I thought the former five-division titleholder controlled every second of every minute of every round against one of the sport’s elite fighters. However, I never lost sight of the fact that Marquez is a lightweight, which put Mayweather’s win in its proper perspective.

As a comeback fight it was a tremendous victory that demonstrated that Mayweather hasn’t lost any of the speed, reflexes and defensive prowess that made him one of the top fighters of the past two decades. As excellent as Marquez was at 126, 130 and 135 pounds, though, he was nothing special at welterweight.

A victory over Marquez at welterweight should not catapult any fighter up THE RING’s 147-pound and pound-for-pound rankings, but that’s just what happened to Mayweather in this week’s updated RING Ratings.

To paraphrase Roy Jones Jr. -- who preceded Mayweather as the American boxer everyone overrated because of uncanny athletic ability and careful matchmaking -- I think my colleagues at THE RING “musta forgot” that Marquez is a lightweight (even though he holds the magazine’s 135-pound title).

That’s the only way I can fathom THE RING editorial board’s ranking Mayweather No. 2 at welterweight, which displaced Miguel Cotto, and No. 2 in the magazine’s pound-for-pound Ratings, a spot held by Marquez.

I disagree with both RING ratings, particularly Mayweather’s divisional placement.

Before I go any further, allow me to make a few things clear.

Although I'm the Co-Editor of RingTV.com (the official website of THE RING) I am not part of the magazine's editorial board, which compiles the weekly ratings. RingTV.com Co-Editor Michael Rosenthal and I are part of THE RING Ratings Panel of boxing journalists who are welcome to give their two cents on the magazine's rankings, but we do not have the final word on who goes where in the ratings.

Now that I've cleared that up let me state that I don't think the editorial board is completely out of line for ranking Mayweather where they did. I just don't agree with it.

I’m not saying that Mayweather isn’t an elite fighter or that he shouldn’t be considered a major player at welterweight. He’s definitely one of the best boxers on the planet and one of the top 147-pound fighters.

I just think THE RING is rating him too high after nearly two years away from the sport and after a performance -- that I admit was near perfect from a technical aspect -- against a boxer who was unproven at the weight the fight took place as well as the division below it.

And I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m disrespecting Marquez or down-playing his ability as a fighter, I’m not.

Let me put this way:

If Chad Dawson, a fabulously talented light heavyweight titleholder who has never fought at cruiserweight or heavyweight, took on THE RING’s No. 10-rated heavyweight, Kevin Johnson, and lost a one-sided decision to the naturally bigger man, do you think Johnson would deserve to shoot up the magazine’s heavyweight rankings?

I don’t. It doesn’t matter how talented and accomplished Dawson is. He’s not a heavyweight.

Cotto is a top welterweight who is also considered to be a pound-for-pound-level fighter, however, he’s never fought at junior middleweight or middleweight. If he challenged middleweight champ Kelly Pavlik and got trounced, would Pavlik’s victory merit his pound-for-pound inclusion?

I don’t think so. I thought the pound-for-pound rankings were for fighters who challenged themselves. That’s usually done by going up in weight and defeating naturally bigger opponents, not by picking on guys who are two weight classes smaller.

Guess what, folks, that’s what Mayweather did by fighting Marquez. He picked on a little guy, and THE RING rewarded him for it.

I don’t think it’s fair to Cotto, who earned his 147-pound ranking by fighting -- get this -- WELTERWEIGHTS, most of whom are pretty darn good.

I don’t think it’s fair to Marquez, who literally clawed his way up the pound-for-pound rankings by leaving the 126-pound division to fight the best fighters at 130 and 135 pounds and defeating them all with the exception of current pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao, who he dropped a disputed split decision to last March.

I don’t think it’s fair to the fighters who were moved down the RING’s rankings -- or in the case of Paul Williams, who was No. 10 in the magazine’s pound-for-pound ratings, moved OUT -- due to Mayweather’s reinstatement.

Think about that for a minute. Williams, a three-division threat who is willing to fight anyone, any time at any weight, was pushed out of THE RING’s pound-for-pound ratings by a boxer who refuses to challenge himself.

How sad.

The weekly RING Ratings updates that are sent to Rosenthal and I from the magazine’s editorial board are usually accompanied by an email of notes and statements from RING Editor Nigel Collins, who had this to say about the new welterweight rankings:

“Floyd Mayweather returns to the divisional rankings as the No. 2 contender at 147 pounds, while his former rival Zab Judah (No. 9 last week), who has gone 4-3 with 1 no-contest in his eight most-recent bouts, exits. Besides his comeback victory over Juan Manuel Marquez, Mayweather’s previous work at welterweight was taken into consideration.”

While I’m glad Judah is finally out of the welterweight picture, I don’t believe that Mayweather’s humiliation of Marquez and his “previous work” at 147 pounds equals what Cotto has done in the division.

Let’s take a quick look at what both men have accomplished at welterweight.

Since entering the 147-pound division in December of 2006, Cotto has fought eight times against six RING-rated welterweight contenders -- including Carlos Quintana, Shane Mosley, Antonio Margarito, and Joshua Clottey (all of whom are still rated). Cotto’s record against the RING-rated contenders is 5-1, the lone loss being his 11th-round TKO to Margarito last July that is now in question following the Mexican’s hand-wraps scandal from earlier this year.

Since entering the 147-pound division in November of 2005, Mayweather has fought six times against two fighters who were rated by THE RING at welterweight, Judah and Carlos Baldomir (neither of whom are currently rated). Mayweather defeated Baldomir for the RING’s welterweight title and defended it once, against Ricky Hatton, THE RING’s 140-pound champ who was unrated at 147 pounds.

Between Mayweather’s fights with Baldomir and Hatton, he took on and defeated Oscar De La Hoya at junior middleweight. While, the combination of winning the welterweight title, beating a legend for a 154-pound belt, and then knocking out a then-undefeated 140-pound champ fueled Mayweather’s case for being the sport’s pound-for-pound king, it did little to enhance his standing as the 147-pound champ.

Leaving the ring for 21 months and returning to beat the lightweight champ shouldn’t be enough for him to unseat Cotto in THE RING’s No. 2 spot.

It says here that crushing Quintana (who was undefeated at the time and went on to upset Williams), wearing down Judah to a late stoppage, outpointing Mosley, going to war with Margarito (who possibly had loaded gloves) for 10½ rounds and beating Clottey with one eye is more meaningful at 147 pounds than decisioning Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya (then THE RING’s No. 5 junior middleweight) and stopping Hatton late.

Again, it’s not that I don’t think that Mayweather is one of the best welterweights in the world; I just don’t believe he’s beaten enough quality 147 pounders to unseat Cotto.

I would have put Mayweather at No. 3, which would have displaced Clottey, or better yet at No. 4, which would replace Margarito (who shouldn’t even be rated given his situation).

I’m sure my opinion on Mayweather’s 147-pound ranking will be interpreted as more “May-hatin’” by his delusional hardcore following but I want to clarify that I’m not saying the former welterweight champ is not as good as Cotto, or even Mosley, the magazine’s No. 1-rated contender. He might be better than both.

However, before I rank him above those two I want him to prove it by beating them in the ring or by taking on the number of RING-rated welterweight contenders they did in earning their placement.

Is that unreasonable?

^^^^

MR. CLEEN · Sep 22, 2009

Mayweather retired the #1 Pound for Pound fighter in the world so it shouldn't be a surprise or a big deal that he jumps so high in the rankings when he comes back, especially since he destroyed the so called #2 pound for pound fighter. Had he barely beat Marquez, I would say he doesn't deserve to be so high, but the fact that he embarrassed Marquez and showed he probably should not have been ranked so high in the first place, earns anyone the right to place him somewhere near the top, if not the top.

What's more unreasonable is that Cotto is getting a gift fight that he really doesn't deserve. Most true boxing fans will agree he lost to Clottey and Mosely, yet he is getting a fight with Pacquiao as if he has been dominating the sport his last couple of fights, when the true reason he is getting this fight is they think Cotto is a shell of his former self, and neither Pacman or Roach truly want the fight with Mayweather and they know it. Ironically taking this fight with Cotto will backfire on them when Cotto beats Pacman and brings his boxing fans back to reality.

Boxing Fans and The Rocky Balboa Syndrome

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