Atheism: A Rough History Of Disbelief

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Dec 8, 2005
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#3
i will check it out/

i thought most of the founders were "deists" aka "i dont know what the fuck created us but something did and im not gonna pretend i know exactly what"
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#4
^^^^agnostic to say the least.

Although you can make an argument that Abraham Lincoln was flat out Athiest. Ill have to find the quote but I read somewhere one of Abrahams close advisors was saying he was a strong Athiest.
 
May 13, 2002
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#5
^^From my understanding, he was a pretty hardcore atheist early in life (late teens, early 20's) but became Christian later. It's uncertain if he did this for political reasons because early in life his political career was hurt numerous times because of his atheistic views. He needed support from religious groups, so it may have all been political.

Good article HERE.

Couple random Lincoln quotes:

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#7
^^^^i wasnt stating that.....sorry

I think people tend to forget that our country had immigrants (pilgrims) from Europe come here because of the religious governments (Catholic church) who were oppressing people.

We all learned this in elementry school, right?

So when we say "Freedom of Religion", in a sense, it means "Freedom from religion". This was written to protect the government from oppressing religions. Same with seperation between church and state. The early Americans who really started the country did not want the idea of God to run the country.

2-0 sixx Here are some quotes from presidents:

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." - John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." - Thomas Jefferson

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But a heresy it certainly is. Jesus told us indeed that 'God is a spirit,' but he has not defined what a spirit is, nor said that it is not matter. And the ancient fathers generally, if not universally, held it to be matter: light and thin indeed, an etherial gas; but still matter." - Thomas Jefferson

"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'" - Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." - Thomas Jefferson

"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together"[/I] - James Madison

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution." - James Madison


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Dec 8, 2005
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#8
the more quotes from tj on a variety of topics, the more i respect him as an intellect, but the whole slave rape thing sorta dampens his acceptability
 

Psilo707

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Jun 25, 2002
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#9
nhojsmith said:
the more quotes from tj on a variety of topics, the more i respect him as an intellect, but the whole slave rape thing sorta dampens his acceptability
Well I totally agree that it was very wrong and inhumane for him and others similar to him to hold and control slaves, but we also have to look at it from a more relative (to the era) perspective and see that the fact of him being a slaveowner should be separate and distinct from his intellect and vision as a leader and one of the greatest minds this country has ever had. He knew slavery was wrong, but at that time politically, he apparently thought he needed his own property to have servants. It's not too convincing to me that some history books say he "raped" any slaves. Im pretty sure he had a legitimate "relationship" with the one young slave girl whos name i cant remember.

Either way, he probably did more for this country than anyone else in history, or at least "one of" the top people. Him being president was probably the least important aspect of his life... lol.


"[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]"There is nothing I would not sacrifice to a practicable plan of abolishing every vestige of this moral and political depravity."" - Thomas Jefferson[/FONT]