As a "producer" do you feel the need to understand keyboard keys and scales?

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BASEDVATO

BASEDVATO

Judo Chop ur Spirit
#1
May 8, 2002
8,623
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#1
As a "producer" do you feel the need to understand keyboard keys and scales?

Years ago when I got my first workstation I had no clue about how the keys flow, minors, major and harmonics. I just kind of finger pecked out melodies - and made some dope beats.

Last few years I have been really trying to learn to play keys, and my mind has really opened up to new patterns and chord sequences. I think overall basic knowledge of the piano is important... I have seen my music and melody become more complex and less predicable lately.




but I can totally understand the "sampling" producer who says they don't need to know any of that. They just need a slice up a sample and bang on some pads.
 
DjTre

DjTre

Sicc OG
#3
Aug 9, 2009
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#3
i was going to ask something similiar to this.

Well, I think Its definitely important to understand music theory. though its not really necessary because you can play by ear. but the more knowledge you have, the better. I am not a skillfull piano player but I am slowly learning and getting better as an original beat maker and im sure most of you all are improving.
 
J

J-FUNKTION

Sicc OG
#5
May 25, 2005
5,007
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#5
^^yup, i play by ear, and have been since i was like 6 or 7....but im so into my comfort zone, that alot of shit comes out soundin the same, or gives off the same feel...
 
BASEDVATO

BASEDVATO

Judo Chop ur Spirit
#6
May 8, 2002
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#6
go to some websites and find the "C" scale easiest one to learn, you will find you naturally by ear learned a portion of C.


once you learn the concept of full step / half step and how to flow them your on your way.
 
lopro

lopro

Sicc OG
#8
Apr 7, 2006
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#8
I personally play by ear. I don't know anything about about majors, minors, and scales, but I would definitely like to learn about all of that someday. After 4 years of playing keyboard I understand some basic chord progression and what notes work together, but maybe knowing how music actually works would put me a step further.
 
xabiton

xabiton

Sicc OG
#9
Jun 9, 2005
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www.kevwestbeats.com
#9
some basic music theory is a good thing to have but the best musicians in history knew squat on theory for the most part. Most musical classics are delightful mistakes. And also as a sampling producer I think its equally important to know theory to know how arrangements work.
 
KG The One

KG The One

Sicc OG
#10
Oct 9, 2008
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#10
To be completely straight up and honest...You don't need to know none of that shit to make tite beats!!! However i'm sure the knowledge wouldn't hurt..But half the dudes i fuck wit that make dope shit couldn't tell you what the fuck note they was playing including myself..

Edit: And none of the aboved mentioned producers including myself use samples on a regular basis, i personally never have!
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#11
Apr 25, 2002
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#11
There's no downside to having a better understanding. You either use the knowledge as a tool to help you grow or you don't. For the average person (meaning someone who isn't a natural born musician) studying things like chords usually helps them become better players.

For people who rely on cutting up samples and rearranging them, I can't say I think there's any big gain. They aren't playing anything new, they're just mixing together preexisting compositions. All they really need to worry about is key & pitch. All the other work was already done by someone else.
 
Carnage187

Carnage187

Sicc OG
#12
Sep 24, 2005
1,389
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soundcloud.com
#12
yes, unless you want to hand draw the melodies. Learning music theory is separate from learning practical musicality. It's good to know your basic progressions in all keys on the keyboard, same as on any other instrument.

The upside about the keyboard is that, most midi systems utilize keyboards as the main signal source, so you'll have an advantage in making musical compositions.
 
BOOBOO619

BOOBOO619

Sicc OG
#13
Apr 26, 2006
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#13
I know the basics of theory. I can pretty much hear a chord and tell if it's in minor or major. But basically, I do play everything by ear. It just comes the naturalist to me like that. I do like the way minor sounds.

I think the best thing to learn are scales. From scales you can build up your melodies and chords and all the notes you play within that scale will sound harmonically in tone.
http://www.musicalscales.com/default.aspx

Remember, there's 12 keys per octave, don't let all those keys confuse you, just break everything you learn to a single octave and progress from there.



There's a lot of plugins out there that can help you with this shit. Check out:

Harmony Improvisator - http://www.cochleor.com/improvisator.html

W2 Harmonizer - http://www.7aliens.com/vst-midi-w2-harmonizer.php

ToneSpace - http://www.mucoder.net/tonespace/
 
xabiton

xabiton

Sicc OG
#14
Jun 9, 2005
469
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www.kevwestbeats.com
#14
Sick Wid It said:
There's no downside to having a better understanding. You either use the knowledge as a tool to help you grow or you don't. For the average person (meaning someone who isn't a natural born musician) studying things like chords usually helps them become better players.

For people who rely on cutting up samples and rearranging them, I can't say I think there's any big gain. They aren't playing anything new, they're just mixing together preexisting compositions. All they really need to worry about is key & pitch. All the other work was already done by someone else.
Click to expand...
i never understood why people assume that there is no need for musical knowledge when using samples. Its not like everyone just loops 8 bars of something and says oh thats mine now. A lot of people take samples and play them back like keyboard patches.
 
DJ Abbico

DJ Abbico

Sicc OG
#16
Mar 15, 2009
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#16
Personally I had 1 on 1 lessons for 8 years (starting in kindergarden) but I must say the most effective way for me to learn the way around the keyboard was a combination of practicing the (major) scales of all 12 keys on the board, going up then down then going on to the next key ...and by ear disecting your favorite music and learning how to play it yourself.
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#17
Apr 25, 2002
2,207
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#17
xabiton said:
i never understood why people assume that there is no need for musical knowledge when using samples. Its not like everyone just loops 8 bars of something and says oh thats mine now. A lot of people take samples and play them back like keyboard patches.
Click to expand...
There's a big difference between sampling a portion of music and using it versus sampling a sound and using it as an instrument.
 
xabiton

xabiton

Sicc OG
#18
Jun 9, 2005
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www.kevwestbeats.com
#18
Sick Wid It said:
There's a big difference between sampling a portion of music and using it versus sampling a sound and using it as an instrument.
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to a point yes but there are those of us who sample portions of music and still play that back like an instrument. Ill use Pete Rock as an example. The shit he did back in the day did require an ear for note and chord progression. The Bomb Squad is another great example. Cats who sample like Puffy are the only ones who fit into your generalization but there are a lot of different ways people sample.
 
S

Sick Wid It

Sicc OG
#19
Apr 25, 2002
2,207
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#19
There's no to a point about it, the difference is black & white. I don't know who you think is using chunks of music as individual instruments but neither Pete Rock, nor the Bomb Squad do that. I also don't know why people think there's all these 'different ways people sample'. It's really simple, you're either using the sound(s) or the musical composition. Sampling is not some big complicated process. And that's coming from someone who spent years sampling.
 
DjTre

DjTre

Sicc OG
#20
Aug 9, 2009
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#20
@xabiton

I actually get what you are trying to say, like pitching it a playing it back on the keys in your own way does require some kind of music theory or playing by ear. But it doesnt really take as much skill as making your own composition. pitching a sample portion of another song is still sampling cuz you are using another persons "musical composition" and their chords/notes. Sampling just requires excellent creativity of how you sequence the sample, and the drum beat rhythm is your musical talent. as well as timing of the sampling. but as far as harmony goes in sampling, its not as complicating. Unless you play along with the sample, like add your own synths and instruments on top of the sample with the keyz
 
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