A world without God, a World without doubt....

[HERESY]

How do you feel the world would be without God or "religion"? Do you feel people wouldn't kill, steal and destroy? How do you feel about a world where everyone rejoices and shares the same belief in "god"?


People have killed in the name of god or gods....people have also helped in the name of god or gods...


Give insight.


:hgk:


ps Since this might turn into a "religious" thread/topic I wont debate or reply much. I simply want more good reading and would like to understand how some of you think. Ya'll be cool.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Personally I think a world without the belief in god or religion would result in a much more peaceful world.

Just look at history and major wars and even the present. Most of them are linked to some kind of religious belief.
Osama and the extreme Muslims vs. the west or Christians.
Pakistan vs. India. (Muslims vs. Hindus)
Tibet vs. China.
Israel vs. Palestine
Yugoslavia - Kosovo conflict
Hitler
There are tons of examples.

I’m not saying an atheist world would be absent of violence, but I am saying irrelevant differences between religion A and religion B would be nonexistent, and so many worthless conflicts would never have occurred.

Without religion I also imagine we would be light years a head, as far as intelligence and science goes. Religion was such a major blockade in human advancement and development. Think of the darkages and all the destroyed literature, not to mention all the great minds that were executed or locked away for their “blasphemous” thinking.

 

[A1Yola415]

im sure there was just as much violence in the world before religion

and if people dont fight about religion then theyll fight because of their race or nationality or hometown, its human nature, religion is just a justification among many possible justifications

 

[nefar559]

How do you feel the world would be without God or "religion"? Do you feel people wouldn't kill, steal and destroy? How do you feel about a world where everyone rejoices and shares the same belief in "god"?


People have killed in the name of god or gods....people have also helped in the name of god or gods...


Give insight.


:hgk:


ps Since this might turn into a "religious" thread/topic I wont debate or reply much. I simply want more good reading and would like to understand how some of you think. Ya'll be cool.

if we lived in a world without religion, we would know our origins, and human would know everything there is to know about the universve.

 

[MEXCOM]

World Without Religion:
It would be pretty much the same way we have it now. I'd wager to say it would be even more volent due to humans not having certain moral and ethical restrictions imposed on them by religion.
World Where Everyone Shares One Faith:
My guess is that it would be a lot less violent. Perhaps more opressive but definitely a lot less violent.

 

[attay]

The fallacious notion that religion is somehow necessary for morality is one of the biggest myths in the world.

"There is no universal moral code that should dictate human behavior. There is no such thing as good or evil, there is no universal standard of right and wrong. Our values and morals come from us and belong to us, whether we like it or not; so we should claim them proudly for ourselves, as our own creations, rather than seeking some external justification for them."

A good piece of writing on the moral conceptions of Christianity (and religion in general), their inheritance and how to demolish them: http://www.crimethinc.com/library/english/nogods.html

I’m not saying an atheist world would be absent of violence, but I am saying irrelevant differences between religion A and religion B would be nonexistent, and so many worthless conflicts would never have occurred.

Exactly. Some of the most gruesome wars in the history of mankind have been fought in the name of religion.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
-Pascal

 

[EDJ]

HERESY,

I'LL ANSWER ACCORDINgLY.

YOU FIRST STRESSED, "How do you feel the world would be without God or "religion"?"

THERE WOULDN'T BE NO WORLD IF IT WASN'T FOR (gOD). BUT WITHOUT RELIgION, THERE WOULDN'T BE NO (gOD) TO TRY TO PRAY TO, AND PEOPLE WOULD BE LOST, THUS NOT HAVIN' MORALS OR NO SIgNIFICANT PURPOSE TO TRY TO LIVE FO'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Do you feel people wouldn't kill, steal and destroy?"

NOPE, IT'D BE THE DIRECT OPPOSITE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "How do you feel about a world where everyone rejoices and shares the same belief in "god"?"

I BELIEVE THAT'S HOW THE WORLD WAS INTENDED. I BELIEVE (gOD) WOULD WANT IT THAT WAY AND WE ALL SHARE IN REJOICIN' OVER HIS gLORY. I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE A BETTER WORLD, PLUS HE WOULD BE THE ONE TO LEAD US, NOT NO IMPERFECT MAN. IT WOULD BE BETTER CAUSE WE WOULD ALL BE FOR THE SAME THANg, THUS OPENIN' LINES OF COMMUNICATION AND AFFECTIN' OTHA PARTS OF OUR LIVES.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

AND PEOPLE WOULD BE LOST, THUS NOT HAVIN' MORALS OR NO SIgNIFICANT PURPOSE TO TRY TO LIVE FO'.[/B]

How do you explain people like me? I’m probably the most hardcore atheist on this site, and yet I’m constantly debating, trying to fight for peace and equality. Why am I not lost, running around punching people in the face?

 

[RuThLeSs RiCk]

Personally I think a world without the belief in god or religion would result in a much more peaceful world.

Just look at history and major wars and even the present. Most of them are linked to some kind of religious belief.
Osama and the extreme Muslims vs. the west or Christians.
Pakistan vs. India. (Muslims vs. Hindus)
Tibet vs. China.
Israel vs. Palestine
Yugoslavia - Kosovo conflict
Hitler
There are tons of examples.

I’m not saying an atheist world would be absent of violence, but I am saying irrelevant differences between religion A and religion B would be nonexistent, and so many worthless conflicts would never have occurred.

Without religion I also imagine we would be light years a head, as far as intelligence and science goes. Religion was such a major blockade in human advancement and development. Think of the darkages and all the destroyed literature, not to mention all the great minds that were executed or locked away for their “blasphemous” thinking.

Don't forget the Spanish who waged war on the indigenous AmeriKKKans because of their religion.

A world without religion would be the same as it is right now. Evil is found in man. I don't believe that Christianity is evil...at least not yet...I think it is trash, but not evil. Those who use its name as a reason for murder, rape, genocide, and a lot more are evil.

 

[EDJ]

^EXACTLY. IT'S THE THINKIN' OF THE PEOPLE WHO USE THE BIBLE TO MANIPULATE OTHAS FOR SELFISH REASONS AND SUCH THAT IS EVIL.

2-0-SIXX,

YOU STRESSED, "How do you explain people like me? I’m probably the most hardcore atheist on this site, and yet I’m constantly debating, trying to fight for peace and equality. Why am I not lost, running around punching people in the face?"

PEOPLE LIKE YOU? ALL I KNOW IS THAT YOU POST UP IN HERE, SO YOU MUST HAVE SOME SORT OF INTELLIgENCE. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ARE IN REAL LIFE, WHAT YOUR MOTIVATION FOR LIVIN' AND SO FORTH IS. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT YOU KNOW OF THE CONCEPT OF (gOD) EITHA BY YOUR PARENTS OR THEIR PARENTS OR WHOEVA WAS BEFORE THEM. AND THE MORALS THEY TAUgHT YOU OR YOU HAVE INTEgRILY WITNESSED IN THIS SOCIETY, HAVE BEEN PASSED ON AND ARE BASED ON BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES. SO WHETHA YOU BELIEVE OR NOT, YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY YOUR ENVIRONMENT, THUS HAVIN' MORALS AS gUIDELINES BASED UPON SOME SCRIPTURES YOU DON'T VALIDATE. IF FROM BIRTH YOU CAMER INTO A WORLD THAT NEVA HAD gUIDELINES THEN AIN'T NO TELLIN' WHAT YOUR INFLUENCES WERE AND HOW YOU WOULD BE. HELL, YOU'D PROBABLY BE ONE IN SEARCH OF THE LIgHT, THE MEANIN' OF LIFE, AND THE ONE SEARCH FOR A HIgHER SOURCE FOR ALL I KNOW IF THE WORLD WAS WITHOUT THE BIBLE OR MORAL gUIDELINES.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

How do you feel the world would be without God or "religion"?

Human civilization would become animal civilization. For example, animals have unrestricted sex out in the open and men simply do it in a nice apartment. There is no difference between the two; the engagement of sex is the same. Without God or religion people would strive for four basic things: eating, sleeping, defending and mating. Religion is actually what sets human civilization apart from animal civilization. Currently there are many less intelligent would-be humans that think modern technology constitutes human intelligence, but actually, the cheetah is running fast on foot, and you are moving fast in a car. So what is the difference? The business is the same. Real religion means knowing and acting in one's relationship with God. If God does not exist then our so-called intelligence is meaningless. Of course, it would have took this so-called intelligence to realize that it (the intelligence) is without value, which is paradoxical.

Do you feel people wouldn't kill, steal and destroy?

Do animals kill, steal and destroy? If everything is purely based on sense gratification alone, then I can gaurantee that these things would still be going on. We (as human-animals) only destroy more because we have the 'ingenuity' to create massively destructive technologies in order to protect our sense gratifying propensities. Thus it is apparent that the human intelligence is there, but it is simply being misused when there is no sense of religious value involved. Actually, we are not so far from this truth today. Who can deny it?

How do you feel about a world where everyone rejoices and shares the same belief in "god"?

That is ideal but not likely in this age, of course. I would propose that people should live amongst others of their faith.

 

[L Mac-a-docious]

Sorry, can you repeat that, my kharma ran over my dogma.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

PEOPLE LIKE YOU? ALL I KNOW IS THAT YOU POST UP IN HERE, SO YOU MUST HAVE SOME SORT OF INTELLIgENCE. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ARE IN REAL LIFE, WHAT YOUR MOTIVATION FOR LIVIN' AND SO FORTH IS.

I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it or simply judge me by my posts on this site.

BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT YOU KNOW OF THE CONCEPT OF (gOD) EITHA BY YOUR PARENTS OR THEIR PARENTS OR WHOEVA WAS BEFORE THEM.

I really don’t even know what this means (concept of god) other than people who believe in a higher power. Listen, I was never taught any religion or anything about any god. My father who raised me never stressed “god” or any religious belief. My real mom on the other hand was and still is a religious wacko but I never had contact with her when I was young and she had zero influence in my life.

AND THE MORALS THEY TAUgHT YOU OR YOU HAVE INTEgRILY WITNESSED IN THIS SOCIETY, HAVE BEEN PASSED ON AND ARE BASED ON BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES.

I disagree. My father never taught me any morals; he led by example; he was an honest man, worked hard and cared for his family. That’s it. This is not some new radical ideology that only came in existence after Jesus; this is simple human nature. As social animals, this is how we naturally behave…until of course we are placed into unnatural environments and are raised to live unmorally.

SO WHETHA YOU BELIEVE OR NOT, YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY YOUR ENVIRONMENT, THUS HAVIN' MORALS AS gUIDELINES BASED UPON SOME SCRIPTURES YOU DON'T VALIDATE.

I agree we are influenced by our environment; however “scriptures” had nothing to do with my life. As I stated above; having good morals has nothing to do with any religion and has existed long before any religion.

Human civilization would become animal civilization. For example, animals have unrestricted sex out in the open and men simply do it in a nice apartment. There is no difference between the two; the engagement of sex is the same. Without God or religion people would strive for four basic things: eating, sleeping, defending and mating. Religion is actually what sets human civilization apart from animal civilization.

Without religion we’d all be running around fucking each other without a care in the world! Sounds like modern day society!

Seriously, we are animals. Sex is a natural instinct and is something we will always have. However, we also have human emotions. This is what separates us from animals. You know those strange feelings that occur when we lie to a loved one or cheat on our husband/wife etc. These basic human emotions have nothing to do with any religion. I will use myself as an example since I am atheist; I feel like shit every time I let a comrade down or if a comrade or female companion lets me down. I don’t need god or any book to tell me how to feel. These are basic, natural human emotions that we’ve always had and are not the result of any religion. We have these emotions as the result of being social creatures. We depend on eachother for survival. We're not like snakes or some insect where you are born and on your own; our survival can only be certain with other humans. Being good and moral is the right thing to do for your own self interest. We are naturally moral because we have developed complex instincts to help us in social situations, which is benificial to our survival. If humans ran around kicking others in the face we wouldn’t live that long, would we?

Do Christians never commit crime or sin? Do atheists spend all their days stealing from charity collection boxes, murdering strangers and sexually abusing children?

 

[Sydal]

Personally I think a world without the belief in god or religion would result in a much more peaceful world.

Just look at history and major wars and even the present. Most of them are linked to some kind of religious belief.
Osama and the extreme Muslims vs. the west or Christians.
Pakistan vs. India. (Muslims vs. Hindus)
Tibet vs. China.
Israel vs. Palestine
Yugoslavia - Kosovo conflict
Hitler
There are tons of examples.

I’m not saying an atheist world would be absent of violence, but I am saying irrelevant differences between religion A and religion B would be nonexistent, and so many worthless conflicts would never have occurred.

Without religion I also imagine we would be light years a head, as far as intelligence and science goes. Religion was such a major blockade in human advancement and development. Think of the darkages and all the destroyed literature, not to mention all the great minds that were executed or locked away for their “blasphemous” thinking.

A-MUTHAFUCKIN-MEN!!

I believe more people have been slaughtered in the name of god than any other reason or cause. This to me is funny because religion is supposed to be against murder and mayhem and all that violent shit. But, you have people who do things, then you have extremists who do things more hardcore.

A world without religion would be a world without major conflict, I truly believe that.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Without religion we’d all be running around fucking each other without a care in the world! Sounds like modern day society!

I concur, it does sound like modern day society. In this age religion is typically used only to benefit one's sense gratification. Any religious lifestyle that infringes on that gratification is generally rejected by the masses.

Seriously, we are animals. Sex is a natural instinct and is something we will always have. However, we also have human emotions. This is what separates us from animals. You know those strange feelings that occur when we lie to a loved one or cheat on our husband/wife etc. These basic human emotions have nothing to do with any religion. I will use myself as an example since I am atheist; I feel like shit every time I let a comrade down or if a comrade or female companion lets me down. I don’t need god or any book to tell me how to feel. These are basic, natural human emotions that we’ve always had and are not the result of any religion. We have these emotions as the result of being social creatures. We depend on eachother for survival. We're not like snakes or some insect where you are born and on your own; our survival can only be certain with other humans. Being good and moral is the right thing to do for your own self interest. We are naturally moral because we have developed complex instincts to help us in social situations, which is benificial to our survival. If humans ran around kicking others in the face we wouldn’t live that long, would we?

Is it only such emotions that set us apart? What about the intelligence it took for you to consider what I wrote and then write your response? You are saying guilt separates humans from animals, but this is not the root characteristic. The question is, why do we feel guilty? If animals do not have this it is because they lack the intellectual capacity. We on the other hand do have that capacity, obviously. So I would say that these emotions are a result of a higher grade of intelligence. Now, generally we tend to use this intelligence in order to become very sophisticated animals. How is this not a waste of intelligence? We are performing the same business as the animals, only we are able to do it in more grandeur ways. And then we have the hypocrisy to try and reason and philosophize our existence as well as existence in general. If we are simply animals then why do we not just cease talking about these things and get right to the focus of eating, sleeping, defending and mating? Why is it human nature to inquire into the nature of the self and the absolute? Is this a fluke of some sort? If it is then I would say that animals are higher grade beings than us because they are not burdened by such nonsense.

Do Christians never commit crime or sin? Do atheists spend all their days stealing from charity collection boxes, murdering strangers and sexually abusing children?

Ideally no, a Christian does not sin. But the last time I checked Jesus was the last real Christian.
Atheists don't have to steal from charity boxes, murder or sexually abuse people. All an atheist has to do is be an atheist; promote ideas that lead human intelligence toward the oblivious goal of sense gratification, either for oneself specifically or for a larger group of people. Some atheists may steal and murder and so may some theists. Of course then it becomes more than a question of being a theist. I suppose here a 'Christian' would say that even the devil believes in God. So a theist is not necessarily a saint.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

A world without religion would be a world without major conflict, I truly believe that.

Is this the root of the problem? Consider why we have religion in the first place...

1. We have the intellectual capacity to inquire into the nature of things.

and,

2. We are without knowledge.


Modern science cannot satisfy the natural human inquiry because it can go no further than what can be perceived by the bodily senses. Therefore we will forever remain limited in understanding perfectly the nature of existence itself. As long as human intelligence is here there will be some sense of religion; some sense of something beyond our experimental knowledge.

 

[EDJ]

2-0-SIXX,

YOU STRESSED, "I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it or simply judge me by my posts on this site."

THAT'S THE WORST ADVICE I EVA HEARD. I HATE ASSUMIN' AND I HATE WHEN OTHAS ASSUME SHIT ABOUT ME BASED ON WHAT THEY PERCEPTION DICTATES. YOU MUST THRIVE OFF THAT SHIT OR SAMETHIN'. I WOULDN'T WANT YOU TO PASS JUDgEMENT ON ME, SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ME TO PASS JUDgEMENT ON YOU?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I really don’t even know what this means (concept of god) other than people who believe in a higher power."

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TO LACE YOU.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Listen, I was never taught any religion or anything about any god."
UNDA-STOOD, BUT THAT DON'T MEAN YOU ARE NOT INDIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE MORAL STANDARDS OF SCRIPTURE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "My father who raised me never stressed “god” or any religious belief. My real mom on the other hand was and still is a religious wacko but I never had contact with her when I was young and she had zero influence in my life."

gOOD WAY TO DISASSOCIATE YOURSELF DIRECTLY, BUT THAT AIN'T MY POINT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I disagree."

WHY?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "My father never taught me any morals; he led by example; he was an honest man, worked hard and cared for his family. That’s it."

SEE, YOU'RE CONTRADICTIN' YOURSELF IN THAT STATEMENT. YOUR FATHER ACTUALLY TAUgHT YOU MORALS BY EXAMPLE. THAT'S HOW YOU LEARN. LOOK HOW QUIK YOU WERE TO POINT OUT WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM EXAMPLE. NOW, THE QUESTION IS, WHERE DID YOUR FATHER LEARN THOSE MORALS? YOU CAN ARgUE THAT IT'S NATURE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN DISPROVE THE gUIDELINES BY WHICH THOSE MORALS gO BY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "This is not some new radical ideology that only came in existence after Jesus; this is simple human nature. As social animals, this is how we naturally behave…until of course we are placed into unnatural environments and are raised to live unmorally."

SO THE QUESTION NOW BECOMES, WHAT IS MORAL AND WHAT IS INMORAL? WHAT DICTATES THAT AND HOW DO WE CALIBRATE THAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I agree we are influenced by our environment; however “scriptures” had nothing to do with my life. As I stated above; having good morals has nothing to do with any religion and has existed long before any religion."

SHOW ME THE PROOF.

 

[Sydal]

^^^^
I'm living proof that morals have nothing to do with religion. My parents never put any religion into my brain growing up, and I developed my own morals as I grew. Yea, I was baptised at birth, but I never heard my parents mention church or anything like it growing up. I decided to believe in Catholicism AFTER I was already a grown man, but my morals were already set. Yes, I do believe my parents passed me the general morals that I think most parents try to, but the whole thing was done by myself, and my morals are different than those of my parents. So, with that said, I think it is safe to say that religion has nothing to do with morals. What has to do with morals, is ones mindstate, and whether or not a person has a good head on his/her shoulders.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

True Anarchy

 

[The Duke of Earl]

relgion is the blame for everything because greed, corruption , lust, murdering,rape, and all other bad stuff wouldn't existe if we didnt have religion.