666 not the mark of the best? 616 is?

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Apr 25, 2002
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#1
Beast's real mark devalued to '616'

Revelation fragment

Chris Wattie
National Post
Wednesday, May 04, 2005

Satanists, apocalypse watchers and heavy metal guitarists may have to adjust their demonic numerology after a recently deciphered ancient biblical text revealed that 666 is not the fabled Number of the Beast after all.

A fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century, gives the more mundane 616 as the mark of the Antichrist.

Ellen Aitken, a professor of early Christian history at McGill University, said the discovery appears to spell the end of 666 as the devil's prime number.

"This is a very nice piece to find," Dr. Aitken said. "Scholars have argued for a long time over this, and it now seems that 616 was the original number of the beast."

The tiny fragment of 1,500-year-old papyrus is written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, and contains a key passage from the Book of Revelation.

Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the "number of the beast," or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book's apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616.

"This is very early confirmation of that number, earlier than any other text we've found of that passage," Dr. Aitken said. "It's probably about 100 years before any other version."

The fragment was part of a hoard of previously illegible manuscripts discovered in an ancient garbage dump outside the Egyptian city of Oxyrhynchus. Although the papyrus was first excavated in 1895, it was badly discoloured and damaged. Classics scholars at Oxford University were only recently able to read it using new advanced imaging techniques.

Elijah Dann, a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Toronto, said the new number is unlikely to make a dent in the popularity of 666.

"Otherwise, a lot of sermons would have to be changed and a lot of movies rewritten," he said with a laugh. "There's always someone with an active imagination who can put another interpretation on it.

"It just shows you that when you study something as cryptic and mystic as the Book of Revelation there's an almost unlimited number of interpretations."

The book is thought to have been written by the disciple John and according to the King James Bible, the traditional translation of the passage reads: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

But Dr. Aitken said that translation was drawn from much later versions of the New Testament than the fragment found in Oxyrhynchus. "When we're talking about the early biblical texts, we're always talking about copies and they are copies made, at best, 150 to 200 years after [the original] was written," she said.

"They can have mistakes in the copying, changes for political or theological reasons ... it's like a detective story piecing it all together."

Dr. Aitken said, however, that scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name, she said.

"It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero."

Revelation was actually a thinly disguised political tract, with the names of those being criticized changed to numbers to protect the authors and early Christians from reprisals. "It's a very political document," Dr. Aitken said. "It's a critique of the politics and society of the Roman empire, but it's written in coded language and riddles."
 
May 17, 2002
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#2
:D - Heresy did you know this?

:: sidenote:: you'll be interested in the release number of my CD if you've come to that conclusion.

I love toying with religion!!!

- barcode -
 
May 17, 2002
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#5
@206 - no joke ;)

very interesting @ 605 & 1316!!!! good info!

the beauty of gematria. forbidden by ancient jewish law, but practiced heavily by the Kabbalists.

what's even more interesting is why Revelations wasn't going to be included in the canon.
 
May 4, 2005
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i heard of something similar to this being spoken of. very intresting indeed.im guessing it has something to do with typhon and the papyri discovered ages ago.

I would have to actually see word for word the fragment and figure out how they described the anti-christ, just to make sure there isnt any confusion with whom the inscriptions refer too.

 
May 17, 2002
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puts in perspective the false prophet etcetera. . . hmmm.

http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostacy.htm

what is of interest in this to me is the monetary system of the sauds and its influence over the entire world. can islam be a factor in the "submission" to "the god of this world" referred to in the bible?

religio-political and economic power, influence, and policy is wrapped deeply in the maneuverings of the saudi family. both US and UK interests are dictated to a great degree by them. black gold which is economically stablized by real gold.

The unifying language of the world is money/mathematics or simply finanace. those who rebel against money are the "apostates" of today. I find the new slant we are speaking on very intriguing. "prophecy fullfilled".

Ironically I'm doing a course on international law in business for my MBA right now. the only true world government IS international trade. the laws of which are solely controlled by the economics thereof.

Money is the root of all evil / In God We Trust. Paradise in . . .
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#14
what is of interest in this to me is the monetary system of the sauds and its influence over the entire world. can islam be a factor in the "submission" to "the god of this world" referred to in the bible?
This could be a possibility. I know for a fact that you're not alone when it comes to pondering such a question.


religio-political and economic power, influence, and policy is wrapped deeply in the maneuverings of the saudi family. both US and UK interests are dictated to a great degree by them. black gold which is economically stablized by real gold.
:classic: but throw china in the loop for a second and what do you get?

http://www.safehaven.com/article-2102.htm

Lets just say china dumps american reserves in favor of something else. Where does that leave the american monetary system and exports?

The unifying language of the world is money/mathematics or simply finanace. those who rebel against money are the "apostates" of today. I find the new slant we are speaking on very intriguing. "prophecy fullfilled".

It's been that way for thousands of years. I'm glad I'm not the only one who understands this.

:sidenote: this is why I tell people (especially afrikan americans) that they should understand currency and how it REALLY works.

Ironically I'm doing a course on international law in business for my MBA right now. the only true world government IS international trade. the laws of which are solely controlled by the economics thereof.
Now the question to ask yourself is who are the people/groups/corporations in control of economics? Economics can't control economics because someone must vote YAY or NAY.


How does all of this tie into 666? It can tie in many ways depending on how one spins it.

I can give an economic or religious/spiritual example. I'll give a religious/spiritual for right now:

In the bible it's stated the Man of Sin cannot be revealed unless a falling away occurs. "666 is not the mark of the beast its 616". The idea or belief is promoted but the fact that documents exist that are OLDER than the NEW document and clearly state that 616 is in error go unreported. What happens to the people? Well they are sheep and will do as told. They promote the NEW and popular view and soon come to the belief that "hey we were all wrong, no such thing as 666, in fact no such thing as god." Not to mention they themselves crumble and start to promote "this is another reason why the bible is false" rhetoric. A person with intelligence (regardless of belief in any of this) would simply ask the question of "does it matter if it's 666 or 616?" and "If it's 616 does it negate the idea that the "antichrist" has a number and will use it as some sort of mark"?


Now ask yourself several questions:


1. WHY is this being reported in the news NOW?


2. Can something like this cause a "falling away" mentioned in the bible and actually REVEAL The Man of Sin?


3. Why havent documents which PREDATE the new document (which was found in a dump) and call it an error given ANY attention? Could the reason be to help promote #2?
 
May 17, 2002
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#15
This is sooo much bigger than the foolishness we've discussed in the past. wow. I'm in awe.


China is in a position that is forcing UK and US to rethink everything. the dumb part is that they (UK/US) are in league with the Sauds who are fucking them. Something like telling the person youre asking help from to follow your lead. at the same time trying to hold down a fat man with your big toe. China and the Sauds are leveraging americans' individual greed against the entire country.

Take for instance the trade deficit and put it in perspective with Citicorp and the amount of american land assets financing the country's debt and you have a puppet america that can be eliminated by debtors cashing in their investments. btw china holds large amounts of american equity as well, second to saudi arabia.


I couldn't agree with you more that "niggas" should learn how economics and finance works. it is imperative to our survival as a race.


A simple term that most blacks don't pay attention to is "Market forces" if the ocean is money and you're a boat in it, how do the waves affect you. going with the flow is how ships end up at the bottom of the ocean.


I think it is being reported now by liberals that are doing whatever they cn to eliminate the wave of evangelicals today. I believe you are correct in that a promotion of a "new" number will make people say fuck religion. I know I've used the knowledge of that number to stupify many LOL. particularly it will cripple the power of the catholics alone. which is another boon for Islam considering that Islam is one of the largest and largest growing populations in the world. I've seen many papers that have attributed mohammed as being the comforter (Holy Spirit/Ghost) prophecied by jesus. which is considered "blasphemous" by jesus and which "there is no forgiveness of"

What is more complicated than what most would like to look at is the colorfulness of revelations. it is said that the number will be put in a persons hand and head. considering the allegorical and cryptic nature of revelations that could be something so simple that most don't consider it at all.

The number doesn't have to be a chip, barcode, brand, or tatoo. it may be as simple as the work of ones hand and the thoughts of ones mind. (i.e. the alegorical nature of the 7 seals and the "dragons" and "Beasts" of the book)

The real number can be as simple as "1" on the dollar bill that one has to take in ones hand or worship with the ideals of their head. the "actual" number IS to some degree irrelevant

There are several numbers that mankind is "marked" with on hand or head figuratively. from SS numbers to other forms of identification.

but if money is the root and a value associated with a man is important, the introduction of a new number is indicative of something valid considering world trends i.e. the papacy etcetera

but from the context of prophecy fulfilled and we are after the "rapture" period which could have transpired in the "dark ages" of christian history the issues such as the eugenic problem of race and increasing economic crisis of world super powers become overtly significant (considering the 7 seals and the harlot and beasts etcetera). particularly since they have been parsed to represent governments and political systems

powers and principalities. fuck the spurious order of angels consider the natural or dictionary understandings of the words.

Merriam-Webster

principality:

1 a : the state, office, or authority of a prince b : the position or responsibilities of a principal (as of a school)
2 : the territory or jurisdiction of a prince : the country that gives title to a prince

powers:

2 a : possession of control, authority, or influence over others b : one having such power; specifically : a sovereign state c : a controlling group : ESTABLISHMENT -- often used in the phrase the powers that be

prince of peace / prince of darkness.

a question for you. what is the proverbial lights of freemasonry and other religious systems?

I have a "host" that "currently" cannot be exchanged ;)
 
May 17, 2002
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#16
Another thought about your question #2.

IT IS FUNNY THAT THEY SAY THIS IS "NEW" INFORMATION.

I learned of 616 when I was in highschool damn near 8-9 years ago. I'm actually real curious as to why they would say that this is "so recently" discovered. garbage dump? i read that the number was found amongst the dead sea scrolls. I need to go back to my highschool library to find if they still have the book I found that information in. I want to date the discovery. if it was discovered in 1895 why has it been tucked away until may 2005 considering that the information has been known to scholars for a century. I remember them saying that several portions of the dead sea scrolls have not been publicized due to the implication on religio-political countries but at the moment this "discovery" and publication seems REAL intriguing.

I got songs and pictures I used to put online back in 2000 with that shit and nobody ever got it. this is very strange!
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#17
China is in a position that is forcing UK and US to rethink everything. the dumb part is that they (UK/US) are in league with the Sauds who are fucking them. Something like telling the person youre asking help from to follow your lead. at the same time trying to hold down a fat man with your big toe. China and the Sauds are leveraging americans' individual greed against the entire country.
Exactly but this insane war on terrorism, tv and stupidity will blind people from the truth. Some time back a thread was made and I believe my only reply was "china holds all the cards". IMHO any person with a working brain could have come to the same conclusion but oh well.....we are dealing with people. People who are simply concerned about their 401k, waving a stupid flag and hot dogs. As a collective humans are idiots.

Greed = collapse

The american infrastructure as we know it will crumble because china OWNS america right now. With the chinese in bed with the saudis it opens the door for a chinese influence and presence in the mid-east. Where does that leave israel and how does it relate to "prophecy"?


Take for instance the trade deficit and put it in perspective with Citicorp and the amount of american land assets financing the country's debt and you have a puppet america that can be eliminated by debtors cashing in their investments. btw china holds large amounts of american equity as well, second to saudi arabia.

I've been trying to tell people about this for some time now and if you dig up old threads you may run across a reference or two. China has an apprx $120 billion in american bonds but americas "ally" japan has apprx 3 1/2 times that amount. Right now japan is not a threat to america...yet....but what if they jump ship also? America will have The Great Depression #2 if china dumps the dollar and if japan dumps as well america will...america? :dead: LMAO!!!!


I couldn't agree with you more that "niggas" should learn how economics and finance works. it is imperative to our survival as a race. A simple term that most blacks don't pay attention to is "Market forces" if the ocean is money and you're a boat in it, how do the waves affect you. going with the flow is how ships end up at the bottom of the ocean.

Another topic for another time. :dead:


I think it is being reported now by liberals that are doing whatever they cn to eliminate the wave of evangelicals today.
If liberals are the group designed by the POWERS to elimate evangelicals I'd say possibly. IMHO bigger things are going on behind the scenes. Thats all I hav eto say about that.

I believe you are correct in that a promotion of a "new" number will make people say fuck religion.
It will. Talk to someone who was in doubt and you'll see it for yourself.

I know I've used the knowledge of that number to stupify many LOL. particularly it will cripple the power of the catholics alone. which is another boon for Islam considering that Islam is one of the largest and largest growing populations in the world.
But maybe the catholics are grooming an ally who just happens to be an enemy of islam?!?!? Have you ran across this document and the controversy behind it?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

Direct from the vatican. How does this idea come into play now?


What is more complicated than what most would like to look at is the colorfulness of revelations. it is said that the number will be put in a persons hand and head. considering the allegorical and cryptic nature of revelations that could be something so simple that most don't consider it at all.The number doesn't have to be a chip, barcode, brand, or tatoo. it may be as simple as the work of ones hand and the thoughts of ones mind. (i.e. the alegorical nature of the 7 seals and the "dragons" and "Beasts" of the book)
money+dexterity = ?!?!?!?!?!
thoughts+actions = downfall?????

The real number can be as simple as "1" on the dollar bill that one has to take in ones hand or worship with the ideals of their head. the "actual" number IS to some degree irrelevant
The above and previous statement that I've quoted is a possibility that has been put to me before. Speaking from a pure scriptural/literal position and judging from the wordplay it's physical BUT.....you made an extremly valid point when you said "the work of ones hand the the thoughts of one mind."

If you even think it have you sinned? Do you know anything about this:

http://www.itmweb.com/essay540.htm#1.1

There are several numbers that mankind is "marked" with on hand or head figuratively. from SS numbers to other forms of identification.
True.

but if money is the root and a value associated with a man is important, the introduction of a new number is indicative of something valid considering world trends i.e. the papacy etcetera
I agree with you but in reality we are talking about an OLD number here. The question to ask is how much power/weight/validity does the number hold when used in conjuction with an economic and evangelical power on a financial and religious level? Does it merit new teachings? New books like the retarded Left Behind series?


but from the context of prophecy fulfilled and we are after the "rapture" period which could have transpired in the "dark ages" of christian history the issues such as the eugenic problem of race and increasing economic crisis of world super powers become overtly significant (considering the 7 seals and the harlot and beasts etcetera). particularly since they have been parsed to represent governments and political systems

How does all of that effect the mind of those for and against the preterist view? Who gets control now and what does one do with it (control)? Divide nations and areas? Implement new laws and systems which cripple what little rights the people have?


a question for you. what is the proverbial lights of freemasonry and other religious systems?
Thats a damn good question. I'd say the ability to throw a brick at a hearse and hide the hand but most importantly the ability to hide actions/works and reap the rewards which are usually monetary. Religion + Banking= worse than church + state. Keep them dumbfounded with "light" and keep them in the debt. "WOW WE CAN GET PAID FROM RELIGION!"

What are your views to the question?

I have a "host" that "currently" cannot be exchanged ;)
I have "something" that is "useless" in the real world.


I learned of 616 when I was in highschool damn near 8-9 years ago. I'm actually real curious as to why they would say that this is "so recently" discovered. garbage dump? i read that the number was found amongst the dead sea scrolls. I need to go back to my highschool library to find if they still have the book I found that information in. I want to date the discovery. if it was discovered in 1895 why has it been tucked away until may 2005 considering that the information has been known to scholars for a century. I remember them saying that several portions of the dead sea scrolls have not been publicized due to the implication on religio-political countries but at the moment this "discovery" and publication seems REAL intriguing.

Anytime something can re-write religion AND history the first thing you should do is ask a series of questions. Who, what, when, where, why and how would be the first step. From what I've read this "new document" was found in the dump near oxyrhynchus along with other writings similar to it.


Finding scriptures in a dump isn't as far fetched as finding nuclear secrets behind a copying machine LMAO!!!!!!!!!


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/06/16/losalamos.disks/
 
May 17, 2002
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#18
I have "something" that is "useless" in the real world.
you answered that more cleverly than I imagined. in that vein, the pageantry and ceremony come to mind. it is exchanged for the power of mankind being the physical(monetary or labor), mental (educational and moral) and spiritual (inspiration and individuality). the drain of individuality or the individual soul. the same principal by which Las Vegas operates. but back to the real subject at hand.

This is why I am so curious about the "newness" of the document. how new can century old information be. Is it actually a new document that reaffirms another old document? or is this an attempt at making age old information a new issue? I'm very curious to the intentions of the entire spin.

Religion + banking is not much unlike church and state. States are rules of affairs. rules akin to a religious government to facilitate trade. a religio-banking system on the other hand is a state minus reasoning and flexibility of the state. rules/myth pageantry/process and money alone. State is ordo ab chao. the other would be ordo en chao.

Very true that religion is the tightest hustle. the sell of fine crafted information and image with inferred power and prosperity. Las Vegas!

(Thinking of Swordfish) A core principle of magick is that it is only successful through the use of misdirection or exploitation of convention i.e. I'll let you see what you expect to see while i'm doing something else. In short I think the lights are stages of adding value to garbage. I wish I could find more detailed information about Sol Invictus

The new view will cause a new divide within the people. the left and the further left as they who abandon religion become agnostic or atheist and those who already were agnostic and atheist become more influential figureheads. the antichrist/antipeterist will become the new deal since the core of the fire and brimstone belief system has become crippled. whatever the anti-dude says will be trendy & the de facto and popular lifestyle. rebellion is the easiest catalyst for conformity. those that want to identify with the new thing will gladly take on a mark to show their angst or distaste with the previous M.O. (once again Market forces)

The left behind series is interesting. it had some intersting articles on the site.

Jesus had made mention of sinning in ones heart i.e. looking upon a woman with lust in your heart/mind. so ill imaginations with activities can be qualified as sins.

the CYC thing sounds like a combination of some of the principles of prolog and fortran. the use of lisp is very much like using prolog. Sounds very interesting. almost like creating a god or the perfect mind. it is an advanced version of SQL by the looks of it. I've discussed a theory on a language like this with some friends before. dangerous and powerful.

money is dexterity and speed. thoughts and actions in conjunction with the aforementioned = acelerated downfall.

one of my positions on the information age is this. information is power the power to use information is power. the speed of information is power. but just like a car with a suped up engine driving at high velocity eliminates the control of power. therefore one may use power to its capacity hit some black ice and smash into a tree. a tempered pace of power provides better forecasts of the future.

::sidenote:: a good thing for niggas to study is forecasting formulas and algorithms. VERY IMPORTANT. the science and art of forecasting is much more logical than fortune telling. it is applicable to all areas of life. a good and accessible way to test your forecasting abilities is in a chess game. the study of forecasting and governing dynamics is priceless.

Manicheanism VERY interesting. I'm doing more studies to find out if the root of manicheanism "mani" has anything to do with "menes". The link tends to redefine the position of catholicism. rewriting history and how their followers should view it.

who do you think the enemy is and how do you think it comes into play I'm very curious.

my assesment from what you've stated is the vatican is realigning with israel. This is VERY important. if the Catholics are aligning with the jews and the liberals are trying to eliminate evangelicals this would be a source for a united front against islam. that's a profound proposition! since zionism and messianic judaism is sympathetic to christianity this could become a Religious world war. the war of isaac vs ishael. . . . very poetic. world events points to this theory.

since there is a growing population of chinese mulims this can get interesting quickly. the diminution of walls between the vatican evangelicals and jews as an effort to eliminate islam is something that can easily cause an Armageddon.

I'm in deep thought!